News Article: Dubas: unlikely Matthews and Marner would sign an extension before Oct. 3

[A1LeafNation]

Yeah let’s. Bridge the guy who could lead the NHL in scoring and not the guy who plays afraid. We should commit long term to a guy who is afraid but not to a guy who can win the Art Ross. That seems backwards even typing it.

You know the term buy low sell high. Marner winning the Art Ross and then being signed is an example of buying high.

 

[diceman934]

Even the analytics say Nylander and Marner are similar players. FYI Nylander is much better than Marner at zone exits and causing neutral zone turnovers than Marner.

Also Nylander played less PP time and higher QOC. Nylander makes effortless ( going at top speed) strides while Marner looks like he's on redbull. Both are superstar players and Leafs will be keeping both.

People need to cut the Marner > Nylander crap out. They are on the same tier.​

They simply are not. It is the People who push the nonsense that they are the same that need to cut the crap out as they are not the same at all.

 

[diceman934]

You know the term buy low sell high. Marner winning the Art Ross and then being signed is an example of buying high.

You sign him now and avoid paying him the high amount. You keep super stars that make all players around them better.

We never bought Marner we drafted him so I fail to understand what you are talking about.

 

[diceman934]

It would have to be a 4 1st round draft pick thing in order for the Leafs not to match.
Since we are already agreed Matthews will get at least 10 million, nobody is offering anything less than 4 1st compensation.

That leaves Marner. Between 8-10 is 2 1sts a 2nd and a 3rd. And Marner has to want to sign which I believe of the 3, would be the least likely. For the same reasons Tavares wanted Toronto.

Marner is not ever going to sign an offer sheet. He loves the leafs he signed his ELC without all of his bonuses and left money on the table.

One more thing the table is based on 5 years so the total amount of the offer sheet is divided by 5 years and the compensation is based on that. So anyone saying it will be less then 4 firsts are not paying attention to the rule. We will be paying Marner over 8m per over 8 years so a total contract around 64-68m over 8 years.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Marner is not ever going to sign an offer sheet. He loves the leafs he signed his ELC without all of his bonuses and left money on the table.

I thought Marner's contract included all of the A bonuses possible because I remember Lou Lamoriello saying since he started the negotiations before he was hired, he didn't want to take them away from him before he signed his ELC.

 

[diceman934]

I thought Marner's contract included all of the A bonuses possible because I remember Lou Lamoriello saying since he started the negotiations before he was hired, he didn't want to take them away from him before he signed his ELC.

He never got both A and B bonuses and total bonus he could earn is 850,000 while Mathews is 2,850000 a year. Marners agent wanted him to wait until he was given both bonuses but Mitch just wanted to sign.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Leafs, Matthews' bold approach could redefine business landscape of NHL - Sportsnet.ca

It was an off-hand comment made by Auston Matthews, probably not inclined to help push William Nylander into the corner. But it did. And when the Toronto Maple Leafs centre suggested he was not at all bothered by the notion of an in-season negotiation of a new contract, there was a subtle shift in the focus of the chattering classes around the NHL.

The NHL Network’s Brian Lawton told The Jeff Blair Show this past week that he believed the Leafs would need to go shorter term with two of the three players in order to keep them in place — to, in the words of the former player, general manager and agent, “kick the can down the road” in hopes of a more lenient salary cap or even a structured buy-out of Patrick Marleau’s deal, which has another year and $6.25 million remaining. We are hearing more and more of this from pundits around the league, with the corollary being that the Leafs need to be seriously contemplating moving on from Nylander.

Colleague Elliotte Friedman got us all talking when he suggested on Hockey Night In Canada Saturday that the Leafs might settle on a five-year deal this season instead of the requisite eight-year deal, which would allow Matthews to go back into the market. It would be a bold move that might redefine the business landscape of the game in much the same way that Tavares’ bold move to cut ties with the Islanders may signal the end of players’ traditional fear of leaving the nest.

Strange, isn’t it, that the younger the game gets, the more mature some of the approaches on the part of players? The future in the NHL may belong to the bold, be they players or teams.

 

[bansheebeat]

Not a fan of Matthews @ 5 years at all. But if he wants a cup with the Leafs and then a 120 million contract from Arizona I guess that's his right.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Marner’s Leaf price tag on the rise with spotlight to himself | The Star

Marner has 16 points in 12 games, a 109-point pace in an 82-game season. To put that in context, in the previous 10 seasons the list of players who’ve had 109-point campaigns in their third NHL season goes one deep, according to HockeyReference.com: Evgeni Malkin. The list of third-year players who’ve reached even 100 points since 2008-09 isn’t much longer. Connor McDavid did it. Ditto Nick Backstrom. That’s it.

And as much as it would be easy to dismiss Marner’s early pace as a puck-luck-driven anomaly — he managed just 69 points last season — there’s reason to believe it’s not. A season ago Marner didn’t get the benefit of a decent set of linemates and half-decent playing time until late January. But in the 36 games after Babcock elevated Marner into a top-six role — well, it was electric. Marner scored at a 92-point pace. He reeled off nine points in seven post-season games. And then he arrived in camp, stronger and noticeably more muscled having spent a summer working on his body and his shot, and was reduced to a relative footnote compared to Matthews and Tavares and Nylander and even newly inserted GM Kyle Dubas.

Speaking of the GM, it’s difficult to fathom why Dubas didn’t sign Marner to a contract extension before this season. The summertime buzz was that an eight-year deal worth an annual average of around $9 million U.S. might have done it. As it is, Marner’s agent, Darren Ferris, said last month that he wasn’t interested in negotiating once the season began. And as for taking a hometown discount, Ferris told TSN radio a while back: “Mitch did that on his first contract, even against my wishes.”

Ferris was referring to Marner forgoing the so-called B-schedule bonuses on his entry-level contract, bonuses Matthews was given despite then-GM Lou Lamoriello’s no-bonus rhetoric.

In any case, Marner is going to be expensive. Look at the company he’s keeping. Marner, who’s just 21, has 146 points through his first 171 NHL games. Tavares, at the same juncture of his career, had 12 fewer points, Jack Eichel had 10 fewer points, Jonathan Toews four fewer. Patrick Kane, through 171 games, put up four more points than Marner. But Kane, at that juncture, had played 300 more minutes — the equivalent of about 17 more games at 17 minutes a night. None of those players currently earns a cap hit less than $10 million U.S.

And Marner, thanks to relatively meagre ice time, can’t be judged fairly by simple point totals. Measure him with a more advanced stat — points per 60 minutes since 2007, courtesy of Corsica Hockey — and he jumps up a level. This is a list populated by the game’s very elite. Sidney Crosby leads it. Malkin is second. McDavid is third, Matthews fourth. And Marner ranks 10th, not far behind the likes of Alex Ovechkin, Nikita Kucherov, Kane and Steven Stamkos.

In other words, on almost any other team, with almost any other set of teammates, he’s a no-question No. 1 guy. And with this opportunity staring him in the face, with Matthews hurt and Nylander unsigned, who’d bet against him finishing No. 1 on Toronto’s scoring chart for a second straight year? Ferris has said he won’t negotiate in-season. Dubas ought to test that premise. Long underestimated, one gets the feeling Marner is of no mind to be underpaid. And the price doesn’t appear to be going down.

 

[TMLeafs17]

In 2019?!?!?

 

[A1LeafNation]

No art ross, no hart, no 70 points, no chance its even close to 12.5m per for Matthews now.

 

[wc17]

No art ross, no hart, no 70 points, no chance its even close to 12.5m per for Matthews now.

Yeah. If Matthews’ ask is 12+ mil then we have big issues...another one of our elite young players looking to set a new salary bar.

Let’s hope Matthews and Marner are a bit more reasonable (than Nylander) and won’t be asking for the moon.

As much as the media loved the early season story, Matthews is NOT Connor Mcdavid...getting paid more than him would be ridiculous.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Media in this city is so garbage. Why they’re fanning the flames to artificially increase Marner’s value I’ll never know. $9 million, barring a crazy good season would be insane. If he gets ~75 points this season, it would be similar to Gaudreau’s contract year after his 78 point season in 2015-2016. When Gaudrea signed his $6.75 million contract, it was 9.2% of the cap at the time. If Marner gets a contract at $7.5 million that’d be 9.4% of the current salary cap. If the cap raises to $82 million next year, $7.5 million would be 9.1% of the salary cap, even closer to Gaudreau’s contract at the time.

Marner would have to produce at well over a point per game to demand $9 million dollars. $8 million, while he’ll likely have a better case for that than Nylander, would still be an overpay, even if only slightly.

EDIT: Just to add, I don’t think Marner will be getting over 80 points this season. Obviously the possibility is there, but this crazy pace he’s on probably won’t last. Not to mention the players Feschuk references as making at least $10 million are doing so on their third contracts besides Eichel, who’s Buffalo’s “franchise player.” Obviously if Marner’s stat line at the end of the year is something crazy like 22G, 68A, 90P then this discussion is different, but as it stands we don’t live in that reality yet.

 

[hfman]

Nylander scored 22 goals last year, and 20 the before. This season looks to be even less because of lost time, and maybe even no goals if the worst case scenario happens.

so he scores a goal every 4 games or so.

...in what league is 20 goals per season worth 8 million plus????

 

[Marshy]

Nylander scored 22 goals last year, and 20 the before. This season looks to be even less because of lost time, and maybe even no goals if the worst case scenario happens.

so he scores a goal every 4 games or so.

...in what league is 20 goals per season worth 8 million plus????

If 8M is still being asked for it's a de-facto trade request.

 

[hfman]

If 8M is still being asked for it's a de-facto trade request.

yup, there's something else happening with this situation.

20 goals per season for just 2 seasons doesn't earn anyone 8 million. The Leafs know it, Nylander knows it.

So... what is really going on here?

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

If 8M is still being asked for it's a de-facto trade request.

It is. If it was even asked in the first place. But I reckon Leafs camp might ask for more by the Leafs then they would if the right team approach them who will use Nylander as the main point producer. The opposite of a home town discount.

 

[Superstar]

If 8M is still being asked for it's a de-facto trade request.

How about Arizona, Willy?

 

[Marshy]

What kind of Dman does 6.5M in cap space get us at this year's TDL?

I think Dec 1 is only a deadline for WN not so much KD.

 

[Luminiferous]

Personally, I don't think these three leafs are worth the hype. I mean, they are really damn good, and worth being kept, obviously, these are the best leafs we've seen for a long ass time.

The issue with it is, I get vibes from Matthews that he will be demanding and unwilling to be reasonable. Less so than Nylander, obviously. Marner seems to have the right idea.

Also, these leaf players are not the best of the best. Kane, Pasta, Panarin, Kuch, Scheifele, Rantanen and Mackinnion etc etc, these players all exist, and are as good if not better than the lesfs players. The Leafs being a spotlight, has exacerbated the situation, no doubt. Still, these guys need to actually do some damage in this league before they get these god damn world ending contracts. 69 points and such is not enough for top dollar.

Stay healthy, play consistently, and dinkleberg Nylander needs to actually play hockey.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Personally, I don't think these three leafs are worth the hype. I mean, they are really damn good, and worth being kept, obviously, these are the best leafs we've seen for a long ass time.

The issue with it is, I get vibes from Matthews that he will be demanding and unwilling to be reasonable. Less so than Nylander, obviously. Marner seems to have the right idea.

Also, these leaf players are not the best of the best. Kane, Pasta, Panarin, Kuch, Scheifele, Rantanen and Mackinnion etc etc, these players all exist, and are as good if not better than the lesfs players. The Leafs being a spotlight, has exacerbated the situation, no doubt. Still, these guys need to actually do some damage in this league before they get these god damn world ending contracts. 69 points and such is not enough for top dollar.

Stay healthy, play consistently, and dinkleberg Nylander needs to actually play hockey.

I mean look at players like Scheifele, Panarin, Mack, and Kuch and tell me what they did at age 19-21 then get compare them to our 3 and get back to me. Marner's 2nd season was actually really close to Kane's 2nd season.

Also your Matthews vibes is the same made up bs that the mainboard cult uses, so you should stick to posting that crap on the Mainboards.

 

[Silver91]

If you compare Marner to Kane, then a similar second contract would be $8.8M*5, so, as much as I hate to think about it, pushing a contract to 8 years for Marner could very well end up costing over $10M.

What I thought about in the summer is even more plausible now, that we do sign them for mid-term contracts. I wouldn't be against signing these guys for:

Matthews: $9.5M * 5
Marner: $8M * 5
Nylander: $5.8M * 5

The biggest reason for a difference between Nylander and Marner is that you're buying a UFA year with Marner, vs. none with Nylander. I know people get all worried about walking a player straight to UFA, but...who cares? If you're going to re-sign them anyways, what difference does that make?

Signing them for those contracts saves about $7M on the cap, vs. 8-year deals, if not more. Keep them relatively cheap in the near term, and then give them bigger deals when the cap is higher.

 

[newfy]

Depending on the team, 4 unprotected 1st round picks could absolutely kill your franchise. Even the Oilers missed with McDavid. It’s a huge risk. We paid for years with just the 2 we gave up for Kessel.

Depends on the quality of team. A bottom dweller like Detroit wouldnt do it because it would likely be 2 top 5ish picks at least out of those 4. If a team this year finishes in the playoff race just in or out of the playoffs they might think giving up 4 picks in the 18-22 range is worth Matthews though. Kessel also isnt the quality of player Matthews is, youre getting a legit first line elite center if you sign him.

I doubt it happens but the speculation about it is probably legit. With the Leafs cap situation and Marner needing to be signed as well why wouldnt Arizona try adding Matthews to their young core?

 

[shortfuze]

Nylander scored 22 goals last year, and 20 the before. This season looks to be even less because of lost time, and maybe even no goals if the worst case scenario happens.

so he scores a goal every 4 games or so.

...in what league is 20 goals per season worth 8 million plus????

Did you happen to skip the assists?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Did you happen to skip the assists?

No. In the playoffs if Matthews doesnt score we need Nylander to score.