I didn't say Tavares can't score without Marner -- not even close. I said Tavares' talent benefits from Marner's talent, just as Marner's talent benefits from his. I'd never say Tavares is a product of Marner; Marner simply made a star player better. Same is true with McDavid and Draisaitl. In fact, Draisaitl's scoring skyrocketed last season after he had already been playing with McDavid. Obviously, the kid took a big step forward.
Draisaitl vs. Matthews
- Thread starter Khomutov
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But the difference is that draisaitl has shown repeatedly he doesnt produce without mcdavid. Thats the difference. Tavares has proven he will be the one boosting players like draisaitls stats.
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
How can people look at what James Neal has done in Edmonton and still question the very real, and very large boost that comes from playing with McDavid?
Soliloquy of a Dogge
I love you, Boots
James Neal does not play on a line with Connor McDavid.
James Neal has put up 3 of his goals and 2 assists without McDavid being involved in any way.
A couple of those power play goals came from deflections off of Draisaitl and RNH shots.
James Neal has a history of scoring goals in the NHL.
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
You have made some good points here, but even still, 6 of his goals have come with McDavid on the ice.
In what oiler fans are claiming is very limited ice time.
Seems to prove your point no?
McDNicks17
Moderator
Should we dock Matthews' PP points for scoring them with Tavares, Marner and Rielly on the ice?
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
I have long said that despite less than elite linemates at 5V5, Matthews benefits heavily from the team he plays on. Especially so at 5V5, but on the PP as well.
Hustlr
Registered User
- Oct 1, 2019
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You guys can only have it one way. You want 2 generational players? Sure, kazaaaammmm! Drai and McD and now the only 2 players in the generational category. Lock er up.
McDNicks17
Moderator
Agreed.
I just always find it funny how it seems like McDavid is the only player discussed on this board that makes points with him worth nothing.
I get that McDavid is a much better player than Marner, Tavares, Rielly, etc, but they aren't exactly chopped liver. Do we need to come up with a formula? If a point with McDavid is worth 0, maybe a point with Marner would be worth 0.25? You could go the other way too with a point with someone like Lucic being worth 2 points.
LTM(Lucic to McDavid) adjusted points™
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theblackadder
Registered User
- Dec 27, 2016
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Your boy Matthews is getting recked and you cant handle it. Love it. I'm lapping up all the salt.
Sky04
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Hustlr
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OilCanada92
Registered User
McDavid would have an incredible drop off in points if he had Matthews on his line. Draisaitl can actually pass the puck...
No, unlike Leafs fans prematurely claiming the same for Matthews, nobody is calling Draisaitl a generational player.
Save for you.
He’s better right now than Matthews though.
I know they have linemate-specific stats, but I don't know where to find them. Feel free to link me. I'd be surprised if Draisaitl is as ineffective as you say, but the numbers will tell the story.
Naturalstattrick.com.
The numbers are unbelievable.
Almost 1200 minutes with mcd last year. 41 goals, 46 assists, 87 points.
Almost 600 minutes not with mcd. 9 goals, 9 assists, 18 points.
Leon Draisaitl - Teammates - Individual - Natural Stat Trick
He scores like a 3rd or 4th liner when not with mcd.
Freakin amazing site! I might binge for a couple of weeks and get back to you...
I changed the field from "Counts" to "Rates", since I think that's a better way to judge his production when he has such wildly different ice-times with linemates. At first glance, Draisaitl actually does better with Nugent-Hopkins than McDavid.
Yeah you can slice and dice tonnes of stats any way you want. Relative to team, rates, individual, with or without teammates, they have tonnes of stats that you can find out tonnes about a player.
You might want to break up 5v5 vs PP time if youre gonna make comparisons like that though. 60ish% of draisaitls ice with rnh was PP time, with all 3 on one line.
RNH plays on his own ES line mostly.
BertMcDrai
Middle old guy loving sports
- Nov 26, 2018
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As always you are making lots of mistakes with your numbers...you are also including over 1 hour of penalty kill from Leon without Connor...
And at the same time you are including the time with Connor on the PP...Do it with ES and it´s not so bad...even McD´s numbers without Leon are not so elite.
Im not making any mistakes.
I never said it wss all ES. Its all situation.
Its no better with only ES time.
Atomos2
Registered User
BertMcDrai
Middle old guy loving sports
- Nov 26, 2018
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You are not getting the point...If he´s playing on the PP (I do the math for you that´s 5 Players against 4) he shares there almost all his time with McD regardless of whether he is on MCD´s line or not...so there could be Ty Rattie instead of McD and he would get points there because of the man advantage, that means the PP is only pushing the shared numbers of Leon and McD...so this is not a fair factor...especially when e.g. AM has much better linemates on the PP...but whats even worth is you are including over 1 hour of ice time which Leons plays without Connor on the PK...What production are you expecting in this time? Do you get now what I mean? That´s not a fair assessment on any player in the world.
Feel free to post 5v5 stats. I have many times and it still paints an ugly picture.
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