Draisaitl @ 8.5/8yrs vrs Matthews @ 11.63/5yrs

[XXIV97]

Ihh. Okay. Surely not the one who is a fan of the team up 5-2 whose star player has 3 points so far?

Plus kadri 2 goals, kapanen 2 goals. Tavares 2 assists.

Thats the kind of thing the oilers dream of.

Thanks for supporting my point!

 

[LeafsNation75]

One playoff run doesn't make a player . Gretzky 1st trip to the finals he did **** . Messier was better but when all was said and done you can not compare the 2 .

I know you were referring to McDavid and Draisaitl but what you said reminds me of those who bashed Matthews for his play against Boston in last years playoffs, even though in the 2017 playoffs he was great against Washington.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I never stated that Draisaitl will be the better player in the future. When I stated that Draisaitl was a better player than McDavid in the playoffs, I used the word "was", not "is". If I stated that Draisaitl is the better player, then it old mean that I cannot see McDavid matching him. However, I said that Draisaitl was the better player in the playoff's. By using "was", I do not see carved in stone. I see McDavid/Draisaitl being like Malkin/Crosby, where both players alternate amazing performances in the playoffs.

In terms of Matthews vs Draisaitl, it depends on teams needs. A team like the Penguins or Washington would take Draisaitl since he has a lesser cap hit. While a team like Vegas, with a lot of cap space, would take Matthews.

In the past three seasons, Draisaitl has scored at a 0.99 PPG pace, while Matthews has scored at a 0.98 PPG pace. People will say that Draisaitl plays with McDavid; however, doesn't Matthews still have the better supporting class.

To add on, Draisaitl has had 3 coaches or more in his NHL career, while Matthews has had 1. Doesn't this play a role too?

For possibly the millionth time, Matthews gets very little ice time with those players. Draisaitl gets almost 2/3 of his minutes with McDavid. This isn't difficult.

 

[canuckking1]

Matthews is better but not by much. The contract gives Drai the edge.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

I would stop with that pathetic excuse since Draisaitl has also been injured in the past with a concussion.

Draisaitl placed on injured reserve by Oilers

Neat. Now do Matthews injury reports.






Didn't think so.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Good Lord, you think production is irrelevant then start your rant with a paragraph about injuries? LOL. You might want to start digging upwards. Not only has the guy outproduced him to the tune of 30% by the same point in time with lesser linemates but he's done so while likely playing with or coming back from said injuries. You really are pure gold.

Better yet, we haven't even seen what Matthews production will be when he's actually making the contract you are raving about as opposed to the 1/3 - 1/2 he's making WHILE he's putting up those numbers.

By the by, it doesn't matter how much bold lettering you apply, those facts will all remain the same.

Explain this same point in time with lesser linemates argument that you are clinging to? Frankly not only is it inaccurate but it is also disingenous.

The same time is right now is it not? This is how you measure players.

At this same time. Right now.

Draisaitl has 33 goals, 34 assists. 67 points in 56 games. 1.20 PPG
Matthews has 25 goals, 25 assists, 50 points in 42 games. 1.19 PPG

Here is the question, the OP used.
Who do you prefer?

Draisaitl at 8.5M with an additional year to his contract(27% cheaper than Matthews cap hit)
or
Matthews at 11.634M with one less year on his contract(27% more expensive than Draisaitl's cap hit)

It's a simple question. Your excuses of in time, don't hold water to the discussion. The question is going fwd. You understand this do you not?

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Simple.

Matthews can drive a line
Drai needs McDavid on his line

The extra cap hit is worth it for Matthews who is not a glorified Rob Brown.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Explain this same point in time with lesser linemates argument that you are clinging to? Frankly not only is it inaccurate but it is also disingenous.

The same time is right now is it not? This is how you measure players.

At this same time. Right now.

Draisaitl has 33 goals, 34 assists. 67 points in 56 games. 1.20 PPG
Matthews has 25 goals, 25 assists, 50 points in 42 games. 1.19 PPG

Here is the question, the OP used.
Who do you prefer?

Draisaitl at 8.5M with an additional year to his contract(27% cheaper than Matthews cap hit)
or
Matthews at 11.634M with one less year on his contract(27% more expensive than Draisaitl's cap hit)

It's a simple question. Your excuses of in time, don't hold water to the discussion. The question is going fwd. You understand this do you not?

No the same point in time has always referred to their careers. Read the posts.

Going forward asks me to speculate on what the players will be going forward, not what they are today. If player A produced at a 30% greater clip at the same point in time on his development curve while playing with lesser linemates and dealing with injuries, it tells me that with the data I have, the gap between player A and player B is quite large. Likely bigger than the 30% attributed to production alone (in fact we even have a body of evidence that shows us just how great said gap is when player B is forced into playing with lesser linemates the way player A does.....while still maintaining that 30% gap). You can't possibly evaluate the contract without factoring that in.

 

[CartographerNo611]

Mathews even though he comes with a hospital bed attached to his hip.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Thanks for supporting my point!

Off topic, but who is the beautiful woman in your avatar?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

No the same point in time has always referred to their careers. Read the posts.

Going forward asks me to speculate on what the players will be going forward, not what they are today. If player A produced at a 30% greater clip at the same point in time on his development curve while playing with lesser linemates and dealing with injuries, it tells me that with the data I have, the gap between player A and player B is quite large. Likely bigger than the 30% attributed to production alone (in fact we even have a body of evidence that shows us just how great said gap is when player B is forced into playing with lesser linemates the way player A does.....while still maintaining that 30% gap). You can't possibly evaluate the contract without factoring that in.

What does point in careers have to do with anything in this thread, when you have factual present day stats and actual contract numbers right in front of you? You seem to be purposely avoiding what the OP is asking here.

 

[razkaz]

All this talk about cap savings being beneficial to Draisaitl also ignores the fact that the Oilers management has failed to turn these "cap savings" they got from McDavid and Leon into anything of substance.

 

[Newsworthy]

All this talk about cap savings being beneficial to Draisaitl also ignores the fact that the Oilers management has failed to turn these "cap savings" they got from McDavid and Leon into anything of substance.

One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[Halla]

ill take matthews easily over draisaitl and 3 mil cap space. he puts up more despite way less ice time.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

What does point in careers have to do with anything in this thread, when you have factual present day stats and actual contract numbers right in front of you? You seem to be purposely avoiding what the OP is asking here.

It has everything to due with determining value of contracts. The only way it doesn't is if you assume players today are all that they will become which historically, is stupid.

How many times has HF said "such and such contract is terrible" and within a year or two found themselves saying "man that's a bargain".

The mere fact that you would judge Matthews contract (which doesn't start until next year) based on his performance this year says a lot.

 

[razkaz]

One has nothing to do with the other.

How so? Everyone is bickering back and forth saying crap like "look at the rest of the team" or "look who he's playing with" so obviously people aren't looking at this in a vacuum.
In fact people are arguing about this the wrong way since Matthews isn't getting paid 11.6 mil yet. We'll all just have to wait and see if Matthews outproduces Draisaitl next year and come back to this.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It has everything to due with determining value of contracts. The only way it doesn't is if you assume players today are all that they will become which historically, is stupid.

How many times has HF said "such and such contract is terrible" and within a year or two found themselves saying "man that's a bargain".

The mere fact that you would judge Matthews contract (which doesn't start until next year) based on his performance this year says a lot.

Again not sure what this has to do with the OP? The OP is asking Matthews at 11.634M for 5 years or Draisaitl at 8.5M for 8 years. I am not judging anything other than the present play, and the criteria that the OP has put forth. You have constantly avoided the question and poll, the present stats, the cap hit, and the length of both contracts.

If you are using the crystal ball argument that Matthews is going to outproduce Draisaitl to warrant being paid 27% higher on the cap, at a year shorter than Draisaitl's contract is worth paying him 11.634M for 5 years. Then just say it. But I find this hard to see. Matthews is not McDavid, and McDavid is only outproducing Draisaitl by 18% this year. And he is the best player in the world.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Matthews is not McDavid, and McDavid is only outproducing Draisaitl by 18% this year. And he is the best player in the world.

To be fair, McDavid has contributed to 68% of Draisaitl's points.

The reason he's only outproducing him by 18% is because he's taking Draisaitl along for the ride during a third Art Ross run.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

To be fair, McDavid has contributed to 68% of Draisaitl's points.

The reason he's only outproducing him by 18% is because he's taking Draisaitl along for the ride during a third Art Ross run.

I think that has already been discussed earlier in the thread. Both Draisaitl's and McDavid's numbers away from each other suffer. It isn't mutually exclusive to Draisaitl. When you have Draisaitl and McDavid on your team. And you are only 25th in GF in the NHL, there is a reason why both players suffer stats wise away from each other. They are both not in the favorably position Matthews is in of being surrounded by more deeper and quality players as the Leafs are the 4th highest scoring team in the NHL. Scoring 40 goals more than Edmonton.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

To be fair, McDavid has contributed to 68% of Draisaitl's points.

The reason he's only outproducing him by 18% is because he's taking Draisaitl along for the ride during a third Art Ross run.

I think this kind of reasoning undersells what Draisaitl does to also help McDavid. Of course Draisaitl benefits from playing with McDavid, just like ANY player will benefit from playing with another elite player. But it goes both ways. McDavid's point totals wouldn't be as high as they are if he NEVER played with Draisaitl and instead had Lucic and Kassian flanking him all season.

 

[Newsworthy]

I think that has already been discussed earlier in the thread. Both Draisaitl's and McDavid's numbers away from each other suffer. It isn't mutually exclusive to Draisaitl. When you have Draisaitl and McDavid on your team. And you are only 25th in GF in the NHL, there is a reason why both players suffer stats wise away from each other. They are both not in the favorably position Matthews is in of being surrounded by more deeper and quality players as the Leafs are the 4th highest scoring team in the NHL. Scoring 40 goals more than Edmonton.

People need to realize that a better team like the Leaf s not only will score more goals but more games will go into OT and allows Mathews to play with all the best line mates on three on three and the Power Play.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

I think this kind of reasoning undersells what Draisaitl does to also help McDavid. Of course Draisaitl benefits from playing with McDavid, just like ANY player will benefit from playing with another elite player. But it goes both ways. McDavid's point totals wouldn't be as high as they are if he NEVER played with Draisaitl and instead had Lucic and Kassian flanking him all season.

Not refuting that point.

But using that 18% number is a real disservice to McDavid. He's considerably better than Draisaitl and the gap is much larger in skill/impact.

2017-2018 was an example of that gap. 108 pts vs 70 pts (even after accounting for Drai's missed games).

I say this as more of a compliment to McDavid than an insult to Draisaitl. It takes no more than a few shifts to notice how much better McDavid is compared to everyone else on the Oilers.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

People need to realize that a better team like the Leaf s not only will score more goals but more games will go into OT and allows Mathews to play with all the best line mates on three on three and the Power Play.

I could only imagine how many points McDavid and Draisaitl would put up on the Leafs.

 

[joe dirte]

I know you were referring to McDavid and Draisaitl but what you said reminds me of those who bashed Matthews for his play against Boston in last years playoffs, even though in the 2017 playoffs he was great against Washington.

He wasn't even bad against Boston last year. He was snakebitten for sure, but he had the second most shots in the series, 1 behind Pasta.

He was getting more chances than anyone on either team. They just didn't go in.

 

[Newsworthy]

How so? Everyone is bickering back and forth saying crap like "look at the rest of the team" or "look who he's playing with" so obviously people aren't looking at this in a vacuum.
In fact people are arguing about this the wrong way since Matthews isn't getting paid 11.6 mil yet. We'll all just have to wait and see if Matthews outproduces Draisaitl next year and come back to this.

How so? Everyone is bickering back and forth saying crap like "look at the rest of the team" or "look who he's playing with" so obviously people aren't looking at this in a vacuum.
In fact people are arguing about this the wrong way since Matthews isn't getting paid 11.6 mil yet. We'll all just have to wait and see if Matthews outproduces Draisaitl next year and come back to this.

Fair enough but don't get me wrong either. I'm certainly not anti-Mathews.
I never thought Austin Mathews would develop into this great a player and he's only getting better.
He's more than lived up to his draft hype and status.

My posting is more about how shockingly good Leon has become and has produced on much worse team.

Because he signed such a big contract and plays for the Oilers I feel Draisatl has become underrated.
These two players would be the best players on my team hands down. I also think Mathews ceiling is higher.I
I don't have a problem paying each player their signed contracts.
And although Leon is having a phenomenal year Im taking Mathews going forward. I think Mathews is the better player when fully healthy.

But Leons 8 year deal and Mathews 5 year deal at those numbers tip the scale for me which is why I voted Leon.