Draft Position Thread.

[User1996]

I assume you are referring to Silayev. This team needs a physical shutdown D a lot. I have a lot of faith in Brewski and Morin to become top 4 D. But we desperately need someone who can shut down the cycle. His production is strong for a draft eligible KHL defender. He could be the next Chara. He’s a beast, destroys people routinely, and is 17 in a men’s league..

While I do hope someone else makes the Silayev mistake ahead (probably an effective NHLer due to size and reach alone, but the production actually isn’t that impressive looking into it), I was referring to the fact that a couple will not pan out as projected.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I think he’s referring to landing on any of 8 names in a draft and having them all pan out accordingly.

Yeah some will bust for sure. Or at least turn out no more than 3rd liners/3rd pair D.

I prefer the forwards. Especially Iginla, Catton or Lindstrom. Mostly don’t want Helenius cause of his WJCs but he is probably a lot better than he showed.

That said if we are 8/9 overall and Silayev is the guy left over I think he’d be a great addition. We lack a shutdown guy quite sorely. I’m not sold on any of Grushnikov/Jurmo/Kuz to be any more than a 6 and I think Silayev could be a monster on a pair with Brewski for example

 

[Volica]

Yeah some will bust for sure. Or at least turn out no more than 3rd liners/3rd pair D.

I prefer the forwards. Especially Iginla, Catton or Lindstrom. Mostly don’t want Helenius cause of his WJCs but he is probably a lot better than he showed.

That said if we are 8/9 overall and Silayev is the guy left over I think he’d be a great addition. We lack a shutdown guy quite sorely. I’m not sold on any of Grushnikov/Jurmo/Kuz to be any more than a 6 and I think Silayev could be a monster on a pair with Brewski for example

I have no preference on who we'd pick at 8/9 this year. If Lindstrom is there, that seems like a Flames pick and a half, doesn't it? Western monster.
I trust the scouting, they've earned it.

I really hope we could somehow move to 1 or 2 with a lotto win. That'd be a game changer. Either a top line franchise guy, or a potential behemoth top pairing guy. Both dudes we desperately need.

Starting the franchise over with Celebrini and Zary as centres 1-2 seems like a good place to start. Plus with the veteran presence we have on the wings, I think your forward group would look a bunch better.

 

[Yepthatsme]

While I do hope someone else makes the Silayev mistake ahead (probably an effective NHLer due to size and reach alone, but the production actually isn’t that impressive looking into it), I was referring to the fact that a couple will not pan out as projected.

He’s a 17 year old player in the KHL. ANY production is impressive, he’s doing things that shouldn’t be done. Half of his 11 points (in 63 games) came in his first 6 games which I imagine is what you’re referencing. But that’s already enough to break the U18 record, and he almost already has more points than any U19 defender as well. If we take any defenseman from that draft I hope it’s him. If this guy hits you get the modern version of Ryan Suter, or dare I say even Chara. His miss is an extremely good top 4 shutdown defenseman. This guy was made to shutdown the modern day NHL star.

All a moot point though, I don’t care what any online scouting staff says, this kid isn’t making it to 8/9.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

As Flames add draft picks, Tod Button and scouting staff staying busy

A treasure trove of draft picks means the Calgary Flames' scouting staff has a big job to do this spring at the NHL Entry Draft.

calgaryherald.com

I wonder what that means for guys like Chernyshov & Artamonov who are slated to go 15-30
Also Shuravin (Dman) & Surin are sometimes late 1st/early 2nd

Also, maybe the 2 draft threads should be combined...getting lots of crossover

He’s a 17 year old player in the KHL. ANY production is impressive, he’s doing things that shouldn’t be done. Half of his 11 points (in 63 games) came in his first 6 games which I imagine is what you’re referencing. But that’s already enough to break the U18 record, and he almost already has more points than any U19 defender as well. If we take any defenseman from that draft I hope it’s him. If this guy hits you get the modern version of Ryan Suter, or dare I say even Chara. His miss is an extremely good top 4 shutdown defenseman. This guy was made to shutdown the modern day NHL star.

All a moot point though, I don’t care what any online scouting staff says, this kid isn’t making it to 8/9.

I agree on the potential, but he's got alot more "miss" than an extremely good top 4.
He could be the biggest bust of the draft, considering where he's likely to go.

 

[Iggys Dome]

Hopefully we draft a C or RW.

 

[User1996]

He’s a 17 year old player in the KHL. ANY production is impressive, he’s doing things that shouldn’t be done. Half of his 11 points (in 63 games) came in his first 6 games which I imagine is what you’re referencing. But that’s already enough to break the U18 record, and he almost already has more points than any U19 defender as well. If we take any defenseman from that draft I hope it’s him. If this guy hits you get the modern version of Ryan Suter, or dare I say even Chara. His miss is an extremely good top 4 shutdown defenseman. This guy was made to shutdown the modern day NHL star.

All a moot point though, I don’t care what any online scouting staff says, this kid isn’t making it to 8/9.

Why are we arguing about production that is at the level where a favourable bounce here or there is the difference between a U18 record or not? We have to look at his tools, which begs the question, and I how you’ll answer, what tools does he have that would make him a 50 point Suter or Chara?

Does he make it past 8 or 9? No he probably doesn’t. Does that mean he should go that early? Also not necessarily, it’s tight this year.

There are D and C I simply have above him, that if he’s taken high, will increase our chances of landing. Hence, the hoping he’s gone.

If I’m drafting, I don’t go for good top 4 shutdown guy in the top 10. There are players with 1D or 1C potential that could slip right into our laps here, let’s not settle.

 

[Yepthatsme]

I wonder what that means for guys like Chernyshov & Artamonov who are slated to go 15-30
Also Shuravin (Dman) & Surin are sometimes late 1st/early 2nd

Also, maybe the 2 draft threads should be combined...getting lots of crossover


I agree on the potential, but he's got alot more "miss" than an extremely good top 4.
He could be the biggest bust of the draft, considering where he's likely to go.

The kid at 17 is already a very good rush defender in the KHL. Most of his deficiencies I’d be more than willing to chalk up to being a 17 year old playing in one of the best pro leagues in the world and being 6’7 at his age. He currently struggles with making quick enough decisions with the puck at the top level and panics a bit under pressure. He also loses board battles more than you’d expect. Pretty easy to think those might get better once he’s not a 17 year old playing in a top 3-4 pro league worldwide, and stops growing long enough to add strength.

Just saying it’s a pretty great bet a 17 year old playing well enough defensively to earn 18-19 minutes a night in the KHL probably will turn out great defensively, especially with his size and mobility.

Why are we arguing about production that is at the level where a favourable bounce here or there is the difference between a U18 record or not? We have to look at his tools, which begs the question, and I how you’ll answer, what tools does he have that would make him a 50 point Suter or Chara?

Does he make it past 8 or 9? No he probably doesn’t. Does that mean he should go that early? Also not necessarily, it’s tight this year.

There are D and C I simply have above him, that if he’s taken high, will increase our chances of landing. Hence, the hoping he’s gone.

If I’m drafting, I don’t go for good top 4 shutdown guy in the top 10. There are players with 1D or 1C potential that could slip right into our laps here, let’s not settle.

I mean for one, unless your argument is that he’s the luckiest kid in KHL history, it probably does say something. But mostly, it’s not about his offensive potential, but mostly that he’s just frankly better than any other Russian defender was at his age. He’s the first 17 year old to play more than 30 games in the KHL in a season. Only three 18 year olds have played more than 50. This is why it bodes so well for his potential, at his age kids aren’t supposed to be nearly as good as he is.

As for his tools, the fact that he’s very mobile (and not just for his size, it’s probably his best trait), is a + passer and can make some great outlet passes, and has a pretty decent shot already considering he probably has atleast 25 pounds of muscle to add are all fantastic tools. His decision making is currently lacking, but as seen above considering he’s the only 17 year old to ever hang at this level for this long I’m sure it’s understandable why.

Now other than his points may be from lucky bounces, what do you see from him that screams limited offensive upside? If he hits, he impacts a game far more than any of the offensive defenseman in this draft. Give me the Weber, Doughty, Suter, Chara, Hedman (discounting his offense) archetype of 1D every day. The kind of player that just having them on the guarantees good results, and can babysit any partner you need while doing it.

By the way, I’m still very much team draft a forward. Especially with Helenius’ playoff play making it look like there’s a great chance one of Lindstrom or Catton falls to us. Silayev is just the only guy I wouldn’t be too mad if we chose him over other forwards.

 

[Mobiandi]

We have a lot of draft capital which is refreshing. 8 picks in the first four rounds. Do we move up at all?

 

[User1996]

The kid at 17 is already a very good rush defender in the KHL. Most of his deficiencies I’d be more than willing to chalk up to being a 17 year old playing in one of the best pro leagues in the world and being 6’7 at his age. He currently struggles with making quick enough decisions with the puck at the top level and panics a bit under pressure. He also loses board battles more than you’d expect. Pretty easy to think those might get better once he’s not a 17 year old playing in a top 3-4 pro league worldwide, and stops growing long enough to add strength.

Just saying it’s a pretty great bet a 17 year old playing well enough defensively to earn 18-19 minutes a night in the KHL probably will turn out great defensively, especially with his size and mobility.

I mean for one, unless your argument is that he’s the luckiest kid in KHL history, it probably does say something. But mostly, it’s not about his offensive potential, but mostly that he’s just frankly better than any other Russian defender was at his age. He’s the first 17 year old to play more than 30 games in the KHL in a season. Only three 18 year olds have played more than 50. This is why it bodes so well for his potential, at his age kids aren’t supposed to be nearly as good as he is.

As for his tools, the fact that he’s very mobile (and not just for his size, it’s probably his best trait), is a + passer and can make some great outlet passes, and has a pretty decent shot already considering he probably has atleast 25 pounds of muscle to add are all fantastic tools. His decision making is currently lacking, but as seen above considering he’s the only 17 year old to ever hang at this level for this long I’m sure it’s understandable why.

Now other than his points may be from lucky bounces, what do you see from him that screams limited offensive upside? If he hits, he impacts a game far more than any of the offensive defenseman in this draft. Give me the Weber, Doughty, Suter, Chara, Hedman (discounting his offense) archetype of 1D every day. The kind of player that just having them on the guarantees good results, and can babysit any partner you need while doing it.

By the way, I’m still very much team draft a forward. Especially with Helenius’ playoff play making it look like there’s a great chance one of Lindstrom or Catton falls to us. Silayev is just the only guy I wouldn’t be too mad if we chose him over other forwards.

Is he the best his age ever or is he just the most effective and ready to play above his age group in the pros?

It’s fine to say what he’s doing is impressive, but saying he’s better now, and has higher potential because of GP is just not a good argument to hang a hat on.

What I see is a guy that’s size and mobility make him too effective to play in a lower league and gives him solid results in a men’s league. What suggests limited offensive upside is below average puck skills, decision making issues, and a funky, uncoordinated stride that’s not dynamic enough to be an asset creating time and space offensively despite how quickly he actually gets around.

 

[Lunatik]

We have a lot of draft capital which is refreshing. 8 picks in the first four rounds. Do we move up at all?

I can see us moving up from the 3rd round (or up from the Stars pick) into the second, but I can also see us moving down from the 1st round with the Canucks pick and into the second round.

 

[Mobiandi]

I can see us moving up from the 3rd round (or up from the Stars pick) into the second, but I can also see us moving down from the 1st round with the Canucks pick and into the second round.

I would love another 2nd

 

[User1996]

A loss to Montreal about two weeks ago would look really good right now. Oh well

 

[JPeeper]

Don't look now, but the the Canadiens and Senators are only 3 points behind the Flames with 10 games to play. Could be sitting at 6th overall in a week (although I don't see it).

 

[Yepthatsme]

Is he the best his age ever or is he just the most effective and ready to play above his age group in the pros?

It’s fine to say what he’s doing is impressive, but saying he’s better now, and has higher potential because of GP is just not a good argument to hang a hat on.

What I see is a guy that’s size and mobility make him too effective to play in a lower league and gives him solid results in a men’s league. What suggests limited offensive upside is below average puck skills, decision making issues, and a funky, uncoordinated stride that’s not dynamic enough to be an asset creating time and space offensively despite how quickly he actually gets around.

I can’t believe I’m saying this but yes, being pro ready at 17 has a strong correlation to future success. Him being able to play pros now has no indication on lack of runway from here forward, so all things considered being pro ready now with the same runway for improvement is a large telltale sign of future success. If you’d like examples of this, look at prospects who played in the NHL at 18 and see how they fare relative to the average prospect.

See you seem to be distilling potential from his play in a pro league compared to other prospects in lesser leagues. Every prospect in this draft, Celebrini included, would struggle with the pace and have “decision making issues” in one of the top pro leagues in the world. He obviously has no hands, but his passing and outlet passes are plus qualities, so unless you mean below average puck skills for the KHL I struggle to see your point. And as far as a funky stride goes, all I can say is obviously. He’s a 6’7” 17 year old. If you expected grace I don’t know what to tell you, and that will be very fixable as he adapts to his length. Although if you honestly think he’s not as mobile as the consensus says, I’ll just leave it at that you are in a very minute percentage of people who share your opinion.

 

[Lunatik]

Don't look now, but the the Canadiens and Senators are only 3 points behind the Flames with 10 games to play. Could be sitting at 6th overall in a week (although I don't see it).

Let's just hope they keep getting points. Wins and OTLs are hopefully on their menus

 

[User1996]

I can’t believe I’m saying this but yes, being pro ready at 17 has a strong correlation to future success. Him being able to play pros now has no indication on lack of runway from here forward, so all things considered being pro ready now with the same runway for improvement is a large telltale sign of future success. If you’d like examples of this, look at prospects who played in the NHL at 18 and see how they fare relative to the average prospect.

See you seem to be distilling potential from his play in a pro league compared to other prospects in lesser leagues. Every prospect in this draft, Celebrini included, would struggle with the pace and have “decision making issues” in one of the top pro leagues in the world. He obviously has no hands, but his passing and outlet passes are plus qualities, so unless you mean below average puck skills for the KHL I struggle to see your point. And as far as a funky stride goes, all I can say is obviously. He’s a 6’7” 17 year old. If you expected grace I don’t know what to tell you, and that will be very fixable as he adapts to his length. Although if you honestly think he’s not as mobile as the consensus says, I’ll just leave it at that you are in a very minute percentage of people who share your opinion.

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but you’re the one trying to use GP as a serious argument like it’s supposed to add some sort of merit whatsoever. It’s a situational thing, not something any scout, GM, or team is going to use as a case to project.

I mean the hands and puck skills are below average for this draft class, actually.

Did I say he wasn’t as mobile as the consensus? He’s an incredible skater in straight lines, but there’s also a functional component he’s missing and you’re not going to see by reading your cherished consensus scouting reports. If you think his skating is good enough to be used to create offensive space, you’re sorely mistaken - that’s what I’m saying.

 

[JPeeper]

After a scare Seattle is back up 4-2 after having given up 2 shortys in the same PP. They'll pass us here in a few minutes. 'Zona also won which puts them 4 points back on us.

 

[Lunatik]

Another good night for the OOT scoreboard.

 

[Lunatik]

 

[Lunatik]

I removed the teams that we can't catch by winning, greyed out the teams we can't catch by them winning.

 

[JPeeper]

Buffalo won tonight so the Flames are somewhat comfortably sitting at 8th overall in the draft right now.

 

[Qubax]

If we are caught by 1 or 2 of Ottawa, Montreal, Arizona any chance we can get Catton?

I guess the issue is I don't want to lose the chance at Tij.

 

[Lunatik]

If we are caught by 1 or 2 of Ottawa, Montreal, Arizona any chance we can get Catton?

I guess the issue is I don't want to lose the chance at Tij.

Real talk...

Does Iggy cry if he makes the announcement that we're drafting Tiggy?

 

[Qubax]

I think Jarome just has a huge smile that gives away what he's about to say.

Maaaybe once the jersey is going over his son we see a quiver of emotion.