GDT: Draft Position Thread.

[Lunatik]

Well, I think we all know we're falling faster than a love addict on molly.

I am still cheering for us to win, but I'm not expecting much after trading Tanev and Hanifin, and I am also hoping the teams behind us win because I understand there is value in picking higher.

After being curb stomped by the Avs tonight we have 17 games left and the 11th worst record in the league, or as you know the 11th overall pick going into the draft lottery.


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I will update the following section as needed:

So this chart is kind of like a magic/tragic number chart except it shows how many wins/losses are needed to make it impossible for the Flames to catch/fall to them.

For teams ahead of us, a Flames loss, or a win for that specific team will lower the number by 0.5. For teams behind us, a Flames win, or a loss for that specific team will lower the number by 0.5.

Tie-breakers are not factored in.

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[crackdown44]

There’s really no argument for trading down whatsoever if either Catton or Lindstrom is still there but if there were hypothetically a run on forwards in the first 5-6 picks and the Flames are sitting there at 6-7 I wonder what they could get to slide down to the 10-11 range

Particularly if they were set on taking Tij, which I can’t imagine is the case if there are better players available but still

 

[Ace Rimmer]

So (if by some miracle) the hockey gods forgive us for winning the cup in the Forum and bestow a lottery win upon the 2024 Calgary Flames, is the rebuild over?

 

[Lunatik]

So (if by some miracle) the hockey gods forgive us for winning the cup in the Forum and bestow a lottery win upon the 2024 Calgary Flames, is the rebuild over?

No. It certainly would help, but we need to do this rebuild right.

But it would increase the desire for me to trade at 2 of Kuzmenko, Mangiapane, and Sharangovich at teh draft... Ideally the former 2. Our defense will still be a mess and Celebrini won't save our offense alone as a rookie.

We rushed the rebuild last time when we had an unexpected good season, which led to the Hamonic trade. Conroy can't repeat Treliving's mistakes.

 

[Kahvi]

But it would increase the desire for me to trade at 2 of Kuzmenko, Mangiapane, and Sharangovich at teh draft... Ideally the former 2.

I would think at least one of those is traded, and possibly 2 by the deadline. I'd keep Sharagovich as well if he has a good season.

 

[Kahvi]

There's still a lot of time before anything needs or can be done, but I think the next big decision is about Andersson, re-sign or trade him.

 

[Mobiandi]

So (if by some miracle) the hockey gods forgive us for winning the cup in the Forum and bestow a lottery win upon the 2024 Calgary Flames, is the rebuild over?

Would Kakko and Laf be enough without Panarin, Fox, Shesty etc?

They just gotta let themselves suck naturally for a couple years, win some trades and they should hopefully be in a better spot in 3 years

 

[Lunatik]

I would think at least one of those is traded, and possibly 2 by the deadline. I'd keep Sharagovich as well if he has a good season.

I only state at teh draft, because we are already overloaded at forward and need spots for the kids, if we win the lottery, we need one for Celebrini, which means moving Sharangovich back to wing.

We'd have Kadri, Backlund, Celebrini and Rooney down the middle. Then Huberdeau, Coleman, Sharangovich, Mangiapane, Kuzmenko, Zary, Pelletier, Coronato, Pospisil and Hunt who deserve to play every night and Duehr, Klapka, Schwindt & Jones pushing for spots and filling bench roles.... maybe even Morton as he can play C and RW.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Would Kakko and Laf be enough without Panarin, Fox, Shesty etc?

They just gotta let themselves suck naturally for a couple years, win some trades and they should hopefully be in a better spot in 3 years

Not in a vacuum, but it'll be easier to convince Makar to come home with a premiere centre on the team. Jokes aside I like the top four D, and it's a good looking as any top six with a budding superstar in it.

Sign a couple free agents and away you go. Can still capitalize on the rest of Markstrom's contract too.

 

[DFF]

So (if by some miracle) the hockey gods forgive us for winning the cup in the Forum and bestow a lottery win upon the 2024 Calgary Flames, is the rebuild over?

No, rebuild normally takes 7-10 yrs

McDavid was drafted in 2015 and they still have not won anything yet

 

[IharRB]

All mathematical reconstruction models may not work in Calgary, so local conditions must be taken into account. Conroy attracts talented guys who, for various reasons, cannot gain a foothold in previous teams; Chances are that many of them will realize their potential and agree to stay in Calgary.
A high selection peak is no guarantee; the next Tkachuk will run away at 25 years old. Reason is needed here too

 

[Ace Rimmer]

No, rebuild normally takes 7-10 yrs

McDavid was drafted in 2015 and they still have not won anything yet

Only if you have a team bad enough to bottom out.

Being bad enough to finish bottom three is a choice, and it has to start in the off-season and properly starts a few summers prior. It's a long way up from there.

Also keep in mind Flames ownership simply won't let that happen. It's just a simple truth that no amount of complaining will change.

 

[DFF]

Only if you have a team bad enough to bottom out.

Being bad enough to finish bottom three is a choice, and it has to start in the off-season and properly starts a few summers prior. It's a long way up from there.

Also keep in mind Flames ownership simply won't let that happen. It's just a simple truth that no amount of complaining will change.

I don’t think they have a choice
There are not enough talent on this team
Easily bottom 5 team for awhile

 

[Lunatik]

After Mondays games

 

[Volica]

So (if by some miracle) the hockey gods forgive us for winning the cup in the Forum and bestow a lottery win upon the 2024 Calgary Flames, is the rebuild over?

Don't think it'd be over, but I think it'd be a step in the right direction.
It'd give us a franchise centre, which would help us out quite a bit... but I think there's still a lot of work to do on the backend now. Replacing Tanev/Hanifin isn't easy, no one we've brought in on trades are in the same stratosphere as those two.

Forward group would be pretty nice though!

Huberdeau - Celebrini - Papa Shango
Zary - Kadri - Pospisil
Mangiapane - Backlund - Coleman

That's about as solid as a top 9 can get without a MacKinnon/McDavid type guy on the roster.

Defence is a little rough though. I guess with Razzy and Weegar you at least have a solid foundation of top 4 guys; then it'll be about finding and drafting better guys. You'll need a #1 eventually, but you can get away with committee until you get there.

 

[User1996]

Don't think it'd be over, but I think it'd be a step in the right direction.
It'd give us a franchise centre, which would help us out quite a bit... but I think there's still a lot of work to do on the backend now. Replacing Tanev/Hanifin isn't easy, no one we've brought in on trades are in the same stratosphere as those two.

Forward group would be pretty nice though!

Huberdeau - Celebrini - Papa Shango
Zary - Kadri - Pospisil
Mangiapane - Backlund - Coleman

That's about as solid as a top 9 can get without a MacKinnon/McDavid type guy on the roster.

Defence is a little rough though. I guess with Razzy and Weegar you at least have a solid foundation of top 4 guys; then it'll be about finding and drafting better guys. You'll need a #1 eventually, but you can get away with committee until you get there.

Honestly, not sure how solid that top 9 really would be, now or in down the road.

In the immediacy, Celebrini, to me, is one of those 1st overall picks that will take some time to be really effective as an NHL player. Maybe like a Jack Hughes path, he almost certainly won’t be a 1C for a bit.

In the future, giving him 2-3 years to be an actual driver on a first line, that puts Backlund at 37/38, Kadri at 35/36, Huberdeau at 33/34, and Coleman at 34/35. Their contributions will go drastically downhill, if they’re still even around.

Even with a Celebrini pick, it would be almost needed to get lucky and hit in a big way on the additional 1sts, 2nds the next couple of years.

 

[Volica]

Honestly, not sure how solid that top 9 really would be, now or in down the road.

In the immediacy, Celebrini, to me, is one of those 1st overall picks that will take some time to be really effective as an NHL player. Maybe like a Jack Hughes path, he almost certainly won’t be a 1C for a bit.

In the future, giving him 2-3 years to be an actual driver on a first line, that puts Backlund at 37/38, Kadri at 35/36, Huberdeau at 33/34, and Coleman at 34/35. Their contributions will go drastically downhill, if they’re still even around.

Even with a Celebrini pick, it would be almost needed to get lucky and hit in a big way on the additional 1sts, 2nds the next couple of years.

I might be more bullish than most on Celebrini.
I see him closer to Eichel out of college than Hughes. Both are tremendous players though, so I don't think you could go wrong with either. Macklin is just a bigger dude than Hughes, and I mean, Eichel parlayed essentially an identical NCAA season as Celebrini is having to a 56 point rookie campaign on an absolute dog shit team.

My hope is just having someone who loves having the puck, can carry it well, can create can get Huberdeau back on track. My top 9 hinges mostly on Celebrini coming in and being a 60-65 point, offensively talented centre right off the bat. Look, if we get 50 point Huberdeau again, than this top 9 is garbage; but I'm hoping with some puck-loving, space creating talent he can get back on track. Then having Shango, someone who can absolutely rip pucks on offense and can play centre below his own blue line, I'd hope for a big of a revival.

 

[Mobiandi]

Who's the best or second best Russian prospect? Decent chance we take him

 

[User1996]

I might be more bullish than most on Celebrini.
I see him closer to Eichel out of college than Hughes. Both are tremendous players though, so I don't think you could go wrong with either. Macklin is just a bigger dude than Hughes, and I mean, Eichel parlayed essentially an identical NCAA season as Celebrini is having to a 56 point rookie campaign on an absolute dog shit team.

My hope is just having someone who loves having the puck, can carry it well, can create can get Huberdeau back on track. My top 9 hinges mostly on Celebrini coming in and being a 60-65 point, offensively talented centre right off the bat. Look, if we get 50 point Huberdeau again, than this top 9 is garbage; but I'm hoping with some puck-loving, space creating talent he can get back on track. Then having Shango, someone who can absolutely rip pucks on offense and can play centre below his own blue line, I'd hope for a big of a revival.

Sure, I guess it does depend on how you view Celebrini. He’s going to be a player either way, but I feel like it could take some time.

I’m also a bit skeptical of Sharanovich and Coleman replicating their production from this year a little. I think Coleman for sure sees some regression, but Sharangovich, with his tools could have been a really good find for us - just streaky.

Regardless, going forward with a future 1/2 C combo of Celebrini and Zary seems like a win to me.

Who's the best or second best Russian prospect? Decent chance we take him

Demidov and Silayev. You’re not getting either at 8 though.

 

[Kranix]

I might be more bullish than most on Celebrini.
I see him closer to Eichel out of college than Hughes. Both are tremendous players though, so I don't think you could go wrong with either. Macklin is just a bigger dude than Hughes, and I mean, Eichel parlayed essentially an identical NCAA season as Celebrini is having to a 56 point rookie campaign on an absolute dog shit team.

My hope is just having someone who loves having the puck, can carry it well, can create can get Huberdeau back on track. My top 9 hinges mostly on Celebrini coming in and being a 60-65 point, offensively talented centre right off the bat. Look, if we get 50 point Huberdeau again, than this top 9 is garbage; but I'm hoping with some puck-loving, space creating talent he can get back on track. Then having Shango, someone who can absolutely rip pucks on offense and can play centre below his own blue line, I'd hope for a big of a revival.

Not to mention him shattering Mackinnon's stats at Shattuck
There seems to be like no hype around this kid, but he's dominated NCAA.
It's a pipe dream though.

 

[InfinityIggy]

No, rebuild normally takes 7-10 yrs

McDavid was drafted in 2015 and they still have not won anything yet

The Oilers initial rebuild around Hall, Eberle, RNH, and Yakupov failed. Leon + McDavid was their 2nd rebuild.

 

[Some Other Flame]

That was their second rebuild. Their first when they traded Smyth. The original "core" was supposed to be Nilsson, Gagner, Shremp, Paajarvi, Eberle or something like that.

Point though is that it's not rebuilding as a concept that's flawed, it's poor ownership with shoddy management that leads to perpetually rebuilding clubs. Rebuilding is part of the natural cycle of sports of peaks and valleys.

 

[Kranix]

That was their second rebuild. Their first when they traded Smyth. The original "core" was supposed to be Nilsson, Gagner, Shremp, Paajarvi, Eberle or something like that.

Point though is that it's not rebuilding as a concept that's flawed, it's poor ownership with shoddy management that leads to perpetually rebuilding clubs. Rebuilding is part of the natural cycle of sports of peaks and valleys.

The Oilers core of Nilsson, Gagner, Schremp failed because of bad ownership, and not because the core was Nilsson, Gagner, Schremp?
The point is not every draft is has a Crosby/McDavid.

 

[Some Other Flame]

It failed because their management thought that group qualified as a "core"

 

[Volica]

Not to mention him shattering Mackinnon's stats at Shattuck
There seems to be like no hype around this kid, but he's dominated NCAA.
It's a pipe dream though.

Very strange to me.
He's going to be a franchise centre in the NHL for 15 years, but all we hear about this draft is that it's weak.

Calgary couldn't play their way in or out of a paper bag. The goal should be to let Buffalo and Ottawa get ahead of you now. get yourself an extra 10 ping pong balls at the draft.

Watch us go like 5-3-1 in our last nine, just to get back into the 12 range where we're most comfortable.

 

[Bounces R Way]

I still like Yakemchuk, Lindstrom, Iggy jr or Helenius if we don't move up.
Catton & Demidov I doubt drop to our pick.