News Article: Dougie Hamilton vs. Seth Jones

[Striiker]

Sanheim and Ghost are underrated.

Provorov and Jones are overrated.

But we can all agree that Braun is our best D

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Sanheim and Ghost are underrated.

Provorov and Jones are overrated.

But we can all agree that Braun is our best D

... and pour one out for the memory of Nisky.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

His reputation is pretty underwhelming too.

In reality his on-ice results outperform his reputation.

In reality, his metrics “outperform” his on-ice contributions.

 

[Striiker]

... and pour one out for the memory of Nisky.

The God of Hockey

The best to ever do it

The entire reason we didn’t win a cup this year

RIP in peace

What an amazing trade by Fletcher. He really is a great GM.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

The God of Hockey

The best to ever do it

The entire reason we didn’t win a cup this year

RIP in peace

What an amazing trade by Fletcher. He really is a great GM.

We wouldn't be where we are without Nisky and his heart and his skill and his quitting.

 

[Beef Invictus]

In reality, his metrics “outperform” his on-ice contributions.

How? They're in line with his eye test. Nothing is out of order. They appear to accurately measure his results.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

How? They're in line with his eye test. Nothing is out of order. They appear to accurately measure his results.

Well, the obvious immediate response:

Sanheim last season was a 51.0% CF% (his career average). That would, allegedly, accurately be reflected in goals scored & against when he’s on the ice. Yet he was -22 in 55 games; so obviously his results don’t mesh with his possession metrics.

There’s a history of fans overrating possession metrics. Look at Colin Miller. Nate Schmidt. Plenty of others whom spreadsheet acolytes loved until they changed situations & it turned out their metrics gave false impressions.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Well, the obvious immediate response:

Sanheim last season was a 51.0% CF% (his career average). That would, allegedly, accurately be reflected in goals scored & against when he’s on the ice. Yet he was -22 in 55 games; so obviously his results don’t mesh with his possession metrics.

There’s a history of fans overrating possession metrics. Look at Colin Miller. Nate Schmidt. Plenty of others whom spreadsheet acolytes loved until they changed situations & it turned out their metrics gave false impressions.

We've already explained in detail why CF alone cherrypicked and devoid of further context is borderline useless, and how that's been known for years. Why are you pulling that, and not his full range of metrics as well as teammate, system, and goalie context? Further comedy to see +/- as the punchline.

Possession metrics are not overrated. They're rated properly by those who understand them. You have no understanding of them, how they are used, or how people here use them. That's your problem, not a problem with the metrics.

 

[DancingPanther]

We wouldn't be where we are without Nisky and his heart and his skill and his quitting.

Will, skill, and ran to the hills

 

[Ghosts Beer]

We've already explained in detail why CF alone cherrypicked and devoid of further context is borderline useless, and how that's been known for years. Why are you pulling that, and not his full range of metrics as well as teammate, system, and goalie context? Further comedy to see +/- as the punchline.

Possession metrics are not overrated. They're rated properly by those who understand them. You have no understanding of them, how they are used, or how people here use them. That's your problem, not a problem with the metrics.

His results were -22 in 55 games. So if you want to praise him for something, it ain’t results. That’s your problem.

 

[Beef Invictus]

His results were -22 in 55 games. So if you want to praise him for something, it ain’t results. That’s your problem.

How can you manage to complain about the accuracy of Corsi while leaning this heavily on +/-?

 

[deadhead]

Sanheim had a better season than Provorov, but Provorov has had a better career. And Sanheim is 10 months older.
Both have some flaws, neither is a franchise D-men, but both are top 4 D-men and still young enough to take their game up another notch.

Sanheim has to translate the flash and good metrics into actual scoring, predictive metrics don't have value unless what they predict comes true.
Provorov has to get back to his best years, 2017-18 and 2019-20 and consistently play at that level and incrementally improve.

 

[Henry Miller]

I’d be tentatively happy with either depending on the price. Either way, I don’t think it will matter much unless Provy regains his form and one of Sanheim or Myers step up.

 

[The Madrigal]

Here we go again with ''the metrics I decide are important matter, but the ones that don't support my argument, don't.'' Better yet, how about how context doesn't matter when numbers supports the argument, but when they don't and it becomes convenient context is all of a sudden important.

Hell, I'm still trying to figure out when the eye test does and does not matter since that also seems to come and go when it's convenient. Way too easy GB, certain people just can't help but expose themselves.

 

[The Madrigal]

I’d be tentatively happy with either depending on the price. Either way, I don’t think it will matter much unless Provy regains his form and one of Sanheim or Myers step up.

What are you talking about, Sanheim is already a top pairing guy.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Tossup, f*** it, I went Jones. It's a bigger dumber move. I've already seen Fletch f*** up a UFA signing let's see him f*** up a big boy NHL trade.

 

[flyerslducks]

i think david savard needs to be added to this poll cus we all know that dougie/jones will be hard to come by and flethcer will just settle for the "next best rhd". So welcome to Philly for 5 years at 5 mill...David Savard

 

[BritainStix]

I think we'll end up overpaying for Larsson personally

 

[DancingPanther]

Tossup, f*** it, I went Jones. It's a bigger dumber move. I've already seen Fletch f*** up a UFA signing let's see him f*** up a big boy NHL trade.

Max chaos and max apathy. Respect

 

[Beef Invictus]

Here we go again with ''the metrics I decide are important matter, but the ones that don't support my argument, don't.'' Better yet, how about how context doesn't matter when numbers supports the argument, but when they don't and it becomes convenient context is all of a sudden important.

Hell, I'm still trying to figure out when the eye test does and does not matter since that also seems to come and go when it's convenient. Way too easy GB, certain people just can't help but expose themselves.

If you think CF and +/- are a hill worth dying on then you obviously don't understand stats either. Always funny to see people rail about stuff they don't understand.

Nobody uses those stats for meaningful discussion. It's not a case of "oh those don't count now," those don't get used like that period.

I try to include the eye test as part of context every time. It always matters with me. The processes should match the numbers. What's hard to figure out? Why, it's almost like you have no idea what you're talking about, which makes the smug condescension quite humorous.

 

[Starat327]

If you think CF and +/- are a hill worth dying on then you obviously don't understand stats either. Always funny to see people rail about stuff they don't understand.

Nobody uses those stats for meaningful discussion. It's not a case of "oh those don't count now," those don't get used like that period.

I try to include the eye test as part of context every time. It always matters with me. The processes should match the numbers. What's hard to figure out? Why, it's almost like you have no idea what you're talking about, which makes the smug condescension quite humorous.

 

[TB87]

We should get that mediocre scorer Sanheim out of here.


There have been 27 Defenseman who have at least 3500 TOI from the beginning of the 2018-2019 season through the 2020-2021 Season.



5v5 Goals/60: .25 (tied for 9th w/ Provorov)
5v5 Primary Assists/60: .41 (tied for 7th)
5v5 Points/60: 1.00 (9th)



He drives play (offensively & otherwise). Let’s get this mediocrity out of here though!

 

[Starat327]

We should get that mediocre scorer Sanheim out of here.


There have been 27 Defenseman who have at least 3500 TOI from the beginning of the 2018-2019 season through the 2020-2021 Season.



5v5 Goals/60: .25 (tied for 9th w/ Provorov)
5v5 Primary Assists/60: .41 (tied for 7th)
5v5 Points/60: 1.00 (9th)



He drives play (offensively & otherwise). Let’s get this mediocrity out of here though!

I feel like this post needs a broken image, Ted.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Kinda weird that people who stand by raw +/- are thumping so hard for a dman who was nearly as bad in that regard while playing with more reliable partners and with better goaltending.

And they talk about double standards.

 

[Math the wild rose]

It's a possibility too that neither Hamilton or Jones will find his way into Philie.

If that happen. Who's the best target?

Id hear mister Invictus would like another target too, I don't disagree about that matter. To raise the expectations.