Proposal: Don't Rent....Buy the final core piece.

[zeke]

It can take 5 years for a defenceman to become an impact player after their draft. Getting McDonagh for that package means in a year and a half you are risking this being our defence long term:

Rielly Zaitsev
Dermott Carrick
Borgman Rosen

I'd prefer taking the route Boston did and signing the stud dman as a UFA.

how many teams have been able to sign that stud dman as a UFA?

 

[zeke]

Penguins 1st Cup lineup experience:
Malkin/Crosby/Staal: 25 games
Sykora: 108 games
Fedetenko: 58 games
Satan: 56 games
Kennedy: 20 games
Cooke: 29 games
Dupuis: 40 games
Talbot: 22 games
Kunitz: 35 games
Guerin: 82 games

Leafs playoff experience:
Marleau: 177 games
JVR: 52 games
Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Hyman/Brown/Kapanen: 6 games
Bozak: 11 games
Komarov: 13 games
Kadri: 13 games

Bolded "own rental" with limited experience post season possibly remove from roster next season.
Just the forwards here.
Grand Canyon drop between Marleau and the rest.

The Pens made their big Hossa trade when their only playoff experience was a first round loss the year before.

 

[ACC1224]

Nobody.



I agree.



LOL wut? We can do both is exactly what I'm saying.

You feel they can contend this year without making any roster additions?

 

[rumman]

Haha yeah. Zeke might think we should "give up liljegrens and first rounders to do it", I sure as hell don't. It wouldn't be quite the same as the Kessel trade but there are similarities to be sure.

Kessel was icing on the cake, unfortunately Burke forgot to bake the cake. The Leafs are out of the oven, but aren't quite ready to be iced imo.

 

[thewave]

Kessel was icing on the cake, unfortunately Burke forgot to bake the cake. The Leafs are out of the oven, but aren't quite ready to be iced imo.

Seattle just formally applied. Means expansion draft and will need to be careful around NTCs.

Everything points to load up on picks for UFA. Consolidate those picks down into 1 player you know you will keep. Overpay if need be a little but do not let UFA walk for nothing. Even JVR now, make the moves and over pay for a Star player who will be around a few years

 

[Gary Nylund]

how many teams have been able to sign that stud dman as a UFA?

If we can sign a stud as a UFA, what does it matter? We're so close to the top teams right now if our young studs keep developing (and why wouldn't they) we're on track to join them soon anyway, maybe sooner than you think. Our defence is playing so well lately. With Dermott we have a solid top 4 all of a sudden, do you really think that another stud D is an absolute necessity and we can't win without getting one?

You feel they can contend this year without making any roster additions?

Yes.

I'm not against making a trade if the right deal comes along but I don't like the idea of trading Liljegren and 1st rounds for Weber (just an example, I don't like the idea of mortaging our future in general). Just look at the impact Dermott is having and think of that as our TDL deal IMO. What do you think would be the price we'd have to pay for a veteran player who's playing at the level Dermott is playing at right now? Maybe it's a mirage and will fade away soon but I dunno, this is like a new team ever since Dermott arrived and I like the way we're playing right now just fine.

 

[zeke]

If you want to trade for Weber, honestly go jump off your bed. Just go, get up on it and jump. Seriously. Terrible idea.

Wouldn't he perfectly fill what everyone seems to think is the one glaring weakness on the leafs?

 

[zeke]

hello brian burke.

when did Burke ever have a homegrown group of elite young talent winning at a borderline top-5 in the league level before he started making his moves?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Kessel was icing on the cake, unfortunately Burke forgot to bake the cake. The Leafs are out of the oven, but aren't quite ready to be iced imo.

I don't like icing, too sweet and doesn't often fit in with the rest of the cake. I'm beginning to think we might not need any icing at all, Dermott just may be enough.

 

[zeke]

Trading for Weber is a shortsighted move. I agree that he would make our team better in the short run, but he comes with a huge price tag today in assets to buy him and he's rapidly depreciating.

How is he rapidly depreciating? His numbers are all as good as ever.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Wouldn't he perfectly fill what everyone seems to think is the one glaring weakness on the leafs?

I don't know if you've noticed but our D has been playing very well lately. No glaring holes that I can see anyway.

 

[-DeMo-]

I believe we should be selling JVR/Bozak/Komarov at the deadline right now, but if you could add a core piece IE that defensemen that would be here for the long term I don't think anybody would be against that, depending on price. it's just not something that normally happens at the deadline unless someone has requested a trade, which I don't believe that guy is out there right now.

 

[thewave]

Wouldn't he perfectly fill what everyone seems to think is the one glaring weakness on the leafs?

No and we need to protect him in expansion draft. Screw that.

 

[Razz]

I dunno guys, the Leafs are on quite a run right now. If the Leafs pull of wins against Pittsburgh and Boston on Feb 17th and 24th, all bets are off as far as what the Leafs are going to do at the deadline. From Lou's perspective: How can you not go for it if the Leafs are beating the top teams in the NHL?

Nashville and Tampa are already down. The Boston game is a write off as far as I'm concerned (3rd in 4 nights on the road against a rested Boston team).

If the goal was to prove they can do it and earn extra help, they certainly are making their case...

 

[zeke]

If we can sign a stud as a UFA, what does it matter?

Well, that's a giant IF is all. These kinds of dmen rarely reach UFA. And when they do, there's only a small chance that we end up signing them. And then even if we do end up signing them, then we're paying huge money that might hurt us more longterm than giving up a couple of young assets would.

We're so close to the top teams right now if our young studs keep developing (and why wouldn't they) we're on track to join them soon anyway, maybe sooner than you think. Our defence is playing so well lately. With Dermott we have a solid top 4 all of a sudden, do you really think that another stud D is an absolute necessity and we can't win without getting one?

hehheh. I'm glad you're on board. You think we're a contender.

Now if we're a contender, why wouldn't we try to upgrade our weak spots?

 

[thewave]

I believe we should be selling JVR/Bozak/Komarov at the deadline right now, but if you could add a core piece IE that defensemen that would be here for the long term I don't think anybody would be against that, depending on price. it's just not something that normally happens at the deadline unless someone has requested a trade, which I don't believe that guy is out there right now.

Absolutely. Sell them and consolidate the wealth and pull a huge trade with a cap strap team for a #1 D we plan to use 6yrs or more. Overpay, doesn't matter. Get them before the deadline.

 

[zeke]

I don't know if you've noticed but our D has been playing very well lately. No glaring holes that I can see anyway.

whoa - so now the Leafs have no holes, and are a contender?

what happened to you, Gary?

 

[zeke]

No and we need to protect him in expansion draft. Screw that.

what's the rules on that (expansion draft) exactly?

 

[zeke]

Absolutely. Sell them and consolidate the wealth and pull a huge trade with a cap strap team for a #1 D we plan to use 6yrs or more. Overpay, doesn't matter. Get them before the deadline.

See, I have no problem with this. I'm glad we're all agreeing that we can trade for that kind of core player right now.

 

[Gary Nylund]

No and we need to protect him in expansion draft. Screw that.

Definitely a consideration. The last draft we got off scot free, it's not gonna happen again. Good organizations want to win always but they don't carried away and piss away the future trying to win now either.

I dunno guys, the Leafs are on quite a run right now. If the Leafs pull of wins against Pittsburgh and Boston on Feb 17th and 24th, all bets are off as far as what the Leafs are going to do at the deadline. From Lou's perspective: How can you not go for it if the Leafs are beating the top teams in the NHL?

Nashville and Tampa are already down. The Boston game is a write off as far as I'm concerned (3rd in 4 nights on the road against a rested Boston team).

If the goal was to prove they can do it and earn extra help, they certainly are making their case...

Yes and they're making a damn good case too.

 

[LeafGrief]

How is he rapidly depreciating? His numbers are all as good as ever.

Because he's 32 and is signed for 8(!!!) more years after this one. I think we would get 3 or maybe even 4 good years (if we're lucky) before that contract is even worse than Phaneuf's was. If he was a FA, I'd be terrified of giving him 8 years at age 32. I think the team that is holding the bag when he truly starts to decline will be very, very unhappy.

If he was signed for only 3 more years, I'd be 100% in your corner yelling "Buy, Buy, Buy!" but specifically Shea Weber's contract is a big no-go for me.

 

[Gary Nylund]

whoa - so now the Leafs have no holes, and are a contender?

what happened to you, Gary?

They've always been a contender (depending on how you define contender). And nothing's happened to me, I'm the same as I've always been, constantly watching, evaluating and then re-evaluating. The Leafs stock has gone up over the last few weeks, that's all there is to it. I still think we're underdogs against BOS/TB in the playoffs but the gap is closing.

 

[thewave]

See, I have no problem with this. I'm glad we're all agreeing that we can trade for that kind of core player right now.

There is nothing wrong with using expiring assets to get better now and long term. I am for the teams progression to contender

 

[zeke]

Because he's 32 and is signed for 8(!!!) more years after this one. I think we would get 3 or maybe even 4 good years (if we're lucky) before that contract is even worse than Phaneuf's was. If he was a FA, I'd be terrified of giving him 8 years at age 32. I think the team that is holding the bag when he truly starts to decline will be very, very unhappy.

If he was signed for only 3 more years, I'd be 100% in your corner yelling "Buy, Buy, Buy!" but specifically Shea Weber's contract is a big no-go for me.

here's the thing - the last 4 years of his deal are actually cheapo years in terms of real salary ($3m, $1m, $1m, $1m), and it's pretty likely that a cap floor team would be happy to take on his fake caphit deal in those years.

 

[Brown Dog]

Just look at the impact Dermott is having and think of that as our TDL deal IMO

This is an interesting point. I feel like more than ever hockey has become a young man's game. Young players can step in and make an immediate impact. The answer isn't always a veteran addition and we've seen how those guys can quickly become problematic both on the ice and on the cap.