Does Pittsburgh have enough two way forwards to win the Cup?

[daver]

Looking at recent Cup winners, elite two way forwards seems to be a consistent ingredient. Crosby, Malkin, Kessel are elite offensively but I don't notice that Patrice Bergeron/Anze Kopitar (even going. all the way back to 09 Pittsburgh had Jordan Staal, and scoring is less than it was back then).

Is the trend of Cup winners being lead by two way forwards a coincidence or possible trouble for Pittsburgh (who many consider the early favorites to win it all next year right now)?

Considering only one acknowledged 2-way forward has won the Conn Smythe since 2009 it's a bit of a stretch to say recent Cup winners have been lead by 2-way forwards.

Malkin and Crosby have both shown they can play solid, if not elite, 2-way games when circumstances dictate. Secondary scoring and injuries have been their Achilles heal since 2009.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Considering only one acknowledged 2-way forward has won the Conn Smythe since 2009 it's a bit of a stretch to say recent Cup winners have been lead by 2-way forwards.

Malkin and Crosby have both shown they can play solid, if not elite, 2-way games when circumstances dictate. Secondary scoring and injuries have been their Achilles heal since 2009.

Primary scoring in the playoffs has been as big or even a bigger problem than secondary scoring the last three years. We've needed a Kessel more than a Staal for a while now.

 

[Bending and Tending]

Considering only one acknowledged 2-way forward has won the Conn Smythe since 2009 it's a bit of a stretch to say recent Cup winners have been lead by 2-way forwards.

Malkin and Crosby have both shown they can play solid, if not elite, 2-way games when circumstances dictate. Secondary scoring and injuries have been their Achilles heal since 2009.

Just because a 2 way forward didn't win the Conn Smythe doesn't mean 2 way forwards didn't lead the team. A collection of 2 way forwards can lead a team, but the award only goes to one person.

 

[daver]

Just because a 2 way forward didn't win the Conn Smythe doesn't mean 2 way forwards didn't lead the team. A collection of 2 way forwards can lead a team, but the award only goes to one person.

You can easily say that the Pens will need a Quick-like or Thomas-like goalie performance to win as much as a two-way forward.

2-way play, or the automatic deficiency of an elite offensive talent to play defense, is waaaaaaay overblown.

 

[Pfranz94]

Looking at recent Cup winners, elite two way forwards seems to be a consistent ingredient. Crosby, Malkin, Kessel are elite offensively but I don't notice that Patrice Bergeron/Anze Kopitar (even going. all the way back to 09 Pittsburgh had Jordan Staal, and scoring is less than it was back then).

Is the trend of Cup winners being lead by two way forwards a coincidence or possible trouble for Pittsburgh (who many consider the early favorites to win it all next year right now)?

Who's considering them the favorites for next year?? The Lightning, Capitals, and Rangers are all more complete teams, with better depth. That's just in the east. Pittsburgh should be a good team, but I don't think they have the depth.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Who's considering them the favorites for next year?? The Lightning, Capitals, and Rangers are all more complete teams, with better depth. That's just in the east. Pittsburgh should be a good team, but I don't think they have the depth.

Shhhhh...don't ruin the narrative.

The Penguins aren't favorites to even be the have home ice in the playoffs, never mind Cup favorites...but it's not because Sidney Crosby doesn't take all of the defensive zone draws, it's because the roster has numerous weaknesses. You can't win in the playoffs without secondary scoring, it becomes incredibly easy to win when you just have to focus on two players and know that you're not going to get burned by the elite skill of Blake Comeau or Chris Kunitz.

 

[BigEezyE22]

2-way forward is usually reserved for a player who shadows or tries to deal with an offensively superior player.

Hard for the 2 best offensive players in the game to find someone in that position.

 

[gordie]

Who's considering them the favorites for next year?? The Lightning, Capitals, and Rangers are all more complete teams, with better depth. That's just in the east. Pittsburgh should be a good team, but I don't think they have the depth.

Nobody but a few dreamers who on these boards call themselves Pittsburgh fans. Acquiring Kessel only makes them more interesting during the regular season. They have "Albatross" contracts in David Perron, Rob Scuderi, Ben Lovejoy, Pascal Dupuis and possibly Chris Kunitz. These are guys who because of their play, age and contracts that GM Jim Rutherford can't move. 5 roster spots being taken up by guys who are unable to contribute signals you aren't really a contender.

 

[Beauner]

Nobody but a few dreamers who on these boards call themselves Pittsburgh fans. Acquiring Kessel only makes them more interesting during the regular season. They have "Albatross" contracts in David Perron, Rob Scuderi, Ben Lovejoy, Pascal Dupuis and possibly Chris Kunitz. These are guys who because of their play, age and contracts that GM Jim Rutherford can't move. 5 roster spots being taken up by guys who are unable to contribute signals you aren't really a contender.

I am failing to understand the flak Perron gets. This is a guy who, over the course of his career, has consistently produced at a top 6 pace. I'm amazed at how some people will take a 30 game sample size and immediately come to the conclusion that he sucks.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

I am failing to understand the flak Perron gets. This is a guy who, over the course of his career, has consistently produced at a top 6 pace. I'm amazed at how some people will take a 30 game sample size and immediately come to the conclusion that he sucks.

Yeah, they are shortsighted. Perron is an excellent player that started off great in Pittsburgh and then hit a lull. He's going to bounce back, and the notion that his contract (with all of one year left on it) is an albatross is laughable and ignorant.

 

[SlapshotTheMovie]

Cup favorites? I have them as a play off bubble team. Yeah the first two lines are going to put up a lot of points. But the bottom two lines are going to let in a ton of points. Their D is gutted and their bottom 6 is AHLers. They will win some games but cup favorite is just stupidity.

 

[gordie]

I am failing to understand the flak Perron gets. This is a guy who, over the course of his career, has consistently produced at a top 6 pace. I'm amazed at how some people will take a 30 game sample size and immediately come to the conclusion that he sucks.

Rutherford has tried to move Perron this summer because they no longer want any part of him and there is no interest. When you show blind faith as fans in a player other NHL GM's who are paid to make decisions want no part of, that is truly laughable and ignorant.

 

[CashMash]

Shhhhh...don't ruin the narrative.

The Penguins aren't favorites to even be the have home ice in the playoffs, never mind Cup favorites...but it's not because Sidney Crosby doesn't take all of the defensive zone draws, it's because the roster has numerous weaknesses. You can't win in the playoffs without secondary scoring, it becomes incredibly easy to win when you just have to focus on two players and know that you're not going to get burned by the elite skill of Blake Comeau or Chris Kunitz.

I agree with this post generally, but Tampa got pretty far without secondary scoring.

 

[Bending and Tending]

You can easily say that the Pens will need a Quick-like or Thomas-like goalie performance to win as much as a two-way forward.

2-way play, or the automatic deficiency of an elite offensive talent to play defense, is waaaaaaay overblown.

No ****ing **** a solid goalie performance is just as important...it's a team game, so you need offense, defense and goaltending.

What I was saying is that the 2 way forwards don't have to be elite, but you need a solid collection of those types of players on your team. Boston, LA, and Chicago all had/have solid 2 way forwards. Each Conn Smythe winner is the guy that helped their team the most on an individual level, but as I said earlier, this is a team game, and 2 way forwards are heavily relied upon in today's game, so you can twist things any way you want, but you are wrong because the last 5 cup winners were lead by 2 way hockey players. Lead doesn't mean the one or two players who carries the team, it describes how the team was successful, and over the past 5 years, success has stemmed from 2 way hockey.

 

[Old Gregg]

No ****ing **** a solid goalie performance is just as important...it's a team game, so you need offense, defense and goaltending.

What I was saying is that the 2 way forwards don't have to be elite, but you need a solid collection of those types of players on your team. Boston, LA, and Chicago all had/have solid 2 way forwards. Each Conn Smythe winner is the guy that helped their team the most on an individual level, but as I said earlier, this is a team game, and 2 way forwards are heavily relied upon in today's game, so you can twist things any way you want, but you are wrong because the last 5 cup winners were lead by 2 way hockey players. Lead doesn't mean the one or two players who carries the team, it describes how the team was successful, and over the past 5 years, success has stemmed from 2 way hockey.

So what you are saying is that if a team plays a good offensive and defensive game, they will have success?

 

[WarriorofTime]

I agree with this post generally, but Tampa got pretty far without secondary scoring.

I mean when Steven Stamkos is on your 2nd line, that's pretty good.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Shhhhh...don't ruin the narrative.

The Penguins aren't favorites to even be the have home ice in the playoffs, never mind Cup favorites...but it's not because Sidney Crosby doesn't take all of the defensive zone draws, it's because the roster has numerous weaknesses. You can't win in the playoffs without secondary scoring, it becomes incredibly easy to win when you just have to focus on two players and know that you're not going to get burned by the elite skill of Blake Comeau or Chris Kunitz.

How do the Pens not have secondary scoring? They have a Crosby whomever line and a Malkin Kessel line (or vice versa).

 

[TheGuyInTheChair]

It will be very interesting to see which one of McDavid and Toews comes out on top of the TSN Franchise Faceoff bracket.

 

[Old Gregg]

It will be very interesting to see which one of McDavid and Toews comes out on top of the TSN Franchise Faceoff bracket.

Is this serious? It will obviously be Toews....I mean if I were starting a franchise and could choose any player in the history of the NHL, Toews would be my first choice

 

[tony d]

I don't think, to me their forwards are mainly offensive. That's great but you want forwards that will keep the opponents from scoring.

 

[Beauner]

I don't think, to me their forwards are mainly offensive. That's great but you want forwards that will keep the opponents from scoring.

If you constantly have the puck, it'll be hard for the other team to score. Crosby (most of the time), Hornqvist, Perron and (from what I've seen) Plotnikov are absolute puckhounds. Absolutely vicious in pursuit. If Malkin and Kessel play together, good luck getting the puck from them once they have it. The bottom 6 I'm even less worried about. Kunitz-Sutter-Dupuis may not posses the puck a whole lot but they've always been solid defensively. I'm really not too worried about the amount of 2-way guys on the team.

 

[CashMash]

I mean when Steven Stamkos is on your 2nd line, that's pretty good.

Yeah, but the 3rd and 4th line did not score that much. The Pens have Malkin on the second line and he could be a first liner on ANY other team in my opinion.

 

[BB88]

Can't find that many shutdown guys from their roster, Hawks were just full of defensive beast's no matter which line you looked at, you need those in the playoffs.
There will be a quality team that will keep their top6 somehow in control and what happens then?

They have a crazy top6/1st pairing but after that there's not that much depth quality.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I agree with this post generally, but Tampa got pretty far without secondary scoring.

Top 6 was stacked.

However do I agree the difference though was the bottom 6 for Tampa imo were pretty good at not getting scored on as badly as Pittsburgh's bottom 6.

 

[Pfranz94]

How do the Pens not have secondary scoring? They have a Crosby whomever line and a Malkin Kessel line (or vice versa).

Are they planning on having those two lines play 60 minutes a night? Their bottom 6 is not very good and there defensemen look terrible. I'm not sold on them.