Does Pittsburgh have enough two way forwards to win the Cup?

[WarriorofTime]

Give Kessel still #1 PP time.

Then just have him feasting on lower D pairings.

Put Crosby in the role of 13-14 taking most of the defense.

Then have Malkin and Kessel have there own lines to score.

If Kessel and Crosby or Malkin and Kessel together aren't scoring it is time to split them up and have each of the big three on a seperates line.

Kessel isn't an elite ES points/60. The whole point of getting him is to give Crosby a big winger to play with not to create more matchup problems. Ideal 3rd line for Pittsburgh is more of a shutdown line.

 

[seanlinden]

honestly as long as you outscore your opponent it doesn't matter, so as long as your team is halfway competent at preventing scoring and has the theoretical level of offensive firepower that the Pens do, it should be fine.

in fact, lack of offense has actually been more of a problem for contenders than anything else in this time span.

look at the last 5 cup winners and runner ups, averages per game in the playoffs:

'15 Hawks 3.00 GF 2.61 GA - runner up Lightning 2.5 GF 2.38 GA
'14 Kings 3.38 GF 2.69 GA - runner up Rangers 2.56 GF 2.4 GA
'13 Hawks 2.78 GF 2.09 GA - runner up Bruins 2.96 GF 2.14 GA
'12 Kings 2.85 GF 1.50 GA - runner up Devils 2.46 GF 2.42 GA
'11 Bruins 3.24 GF 2.12 GA - runner up Canucks 2.32 GF 2.76 GA

obviously you can break it down further with conference finals etc., but generally speaking defense seems like it's a bit overrated lately in comparison to scoring - ironically since the last 5 cup winners are all full of "two-way players". Additionally, the Pens defense isn't nearly bad enough to warrant such concerns in my opinion - their forwards may not be considered "two-way" as much, but they aren't anywhere near as one-dimensional as people seem to assume.

I don't think anyone's debating if the Pens will do "fine". They undoubtedly have the firepower.

However, I think the D does leave a lot to be desired. Kris Letang is a well below average #1 defenceman. Yes, offensively he is probably top 10, but play in his own end leaves a lot to be desired. Olli Maatta has a ton of upside, but at this point, he's still quite unproven with less than 100 games experience. Beyond those 2, you've got a bunch of guys who should be #4-#6 defencemen.

To me, the question is, can the Pens go into the playoffs, and beat a team like New York? or Tampa? or Montreal? or any team with a hot goaltender? I don't see Fleury standing on his head, and I don't see that D being good enough to make it not matter. The offseason isn't done, but it also doesn't appear that the Pens have cap space to bring in another defenceman with a reasonably-sized salary.

 

[wej20]

Perron = not 1st line calibre on either O or D
Kunitz = declining and one-dimensional
Plotnikov = hasn't played a game in the NHL
Bennett = Meh

4 of your top 9 players are nothing special, in any facet of the game.

Kunitz is one-dimensional? While Perron may not be a stud you have to take into account that we have Crosby and Malkin at centre, with two of the best centres in the league it is going to be difficult to fill 4 top 6 wing spots with 4 1st line wingers but this current Pens team looks the best in a long time in terms of offensive depth.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I don't think anyone's debating if the Pens will do "fine". They undoubtedly have the firepower.

However, I think the D does leave a lot to be desired. Kris Letang is a well below average #1 defenceman. Yes, offensively he is probably top 10, but play in his own end leaves a lot to be desired. Olli Maatta has a ton of upside, but at this point, he's still quite unproven with less than 100 games experience. Beyond those 2, you've got a bunch of guys who should be #4-#6 defencemen.

To me, the question is, can the Pens go into the playoffs, and beat a team like New York? or Tampa? or Montreal? or any team with a hot goaltender? I don't see Fleury standing on his head, and I don't see that D being good enough to make it not matter. The offseason isn't done, but it also doesn't appear that the Pens have cap space to bring in another defenceman with a reasonably-sized salary.

Letang is an avg #1 now? This place...

He would easily be the #1 defenseman on all but maybe ten teams and the narrative he is poor in his own end is only spewed by people who don't watch him (or understand what they are watching). It's one of those silly myths that people hope if they repeat it enough, it will become true.

In fact, Letang has been on their top PK unit for years, and it's been one of the best units in the league for 2-3 years now. Blueliners who are "questionable" in their own end don't play on the top PK pair.

The Pens have had a vet heavy blueline for years and it's gotten them no where, including the gong show shoot out series agt Philly a few years back.

Getting their young prospects in there isn't going to make as much of a substantial difference as people want to believe. Their best pair in the playoffs agt the Rangers was Dumoulin-Chorney and I don't believe they were on the ice for a goal agt.

Then there was Lovejoy and Scuderi...

 

[GJB]

It is absolutely baffling to me that people say our depth is bad. This is the best depth we've had in years.

Perron - Crosby - Kessel
Kunitz - Malkin - Hornqvist
Plotnikov - Sutter - Bennet
Dupuis - Sundqvist - Rust/Wilson/Sheary/etc

It may be the best depth the Pens' have had in years, but that doesn't make it a "good" amount of depth.

Plotnikov, Bennett, Sundqvist, Rust, Sheary all unproven NHL talents. And Dupuis and Kunitz have to prove age/injuries haven't caught up with them.

When you look at the last few teams to win the cup they have several key role players in their bottom 6.

And the defense core looks a bit thin as well to be a contender. Moving Despres for Lovejoy was a mistake. They need to get another key top-4 guy in there.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Letang is an avg #1 now? This place...

He would easily be the #1 defenseman on all but maybe ten teams and the narrative he is poor in his own end is only spewed by people who don't watch him (or understand what they are watching). It's one of those silly myths that people hope if they repeat it enough, it will become true.

In fact, Letang has been on their top PK unit for years, and it's been one of the best units in the league for 2-3 years now. Blueliners who are "questionable" in their own end don't play on the top PK pair.

Why are you selling Letang so short.

Weber Doughty Karlsson and maybe Keith and OEL I'd take over Letang. Besides that I take Letang as the #1 D every time.

(OEL is because I really like him and see great potential)

Letang is elite in all zones.
Will be the rock for Pittsburgh for many years .

 

[Lomez]

They'll be competitive.

 

[Shockmaster]

When people say the Penguins' defense is weak, is it just because they have some young players at that position? That's a legit concern, but the only way young players get better is by playing.

Or is it because they don't have a true "defensive defenseman" that plays with sandpaper and only plays D? Because quite frankly, in the recent years the Penguins have used defensive d-men it's only resulted in them getting pinned in their own zone more often. I'd rather see the Penguins take their chances on puck-movers that can get the puck out of their own end and start the rush up ice. If that labels them as "soft" then so be it, but it's better than having pylons that can't do anything with the puck.

 

[KIRK]

Yeah it comes down to Fleury.

I don't think the D is a weakness by any means, but if the D plays average and Fleury plays average putting up 4 goals a game doesnt always get it done, especially in the playoffs.

If the D lives up to its potential Pitt will be unstoppable.

I'm a Pens fan. On paper, the defense has two top four defensemen (Letang and Maatta) and then about 6 or so guys who on pretty much any top team would be 5-8 defensemen.

The potential COULD come through. But, right now, it's one of the biggest concerns.

When people say the Penguins' defense is weak, is it just because they have some young players at that position? That's a legit concern, but the only way young players get better is by playing.

Or is it because they don't have a true "defensive defenseman" that plays with sandpaper and only plays D? Because quite frankly, in the recent years the Penguins have used defensive d-men it's only resulted in them getting pinned in their own zone more often. I'd rather see the Penguins take their chances on puck-movers that can get the puck out of their own end and start the rush up ice. If that labels them as "soft" then so be it, but it's better than having pylons that can't do anything with the puck.

Who are our legit top four guys? Legit. I've got Letang and Maatta. You hope Pouliot will get there. Maybe Cole can be a #4 on an upper echelon team. Maybe Dumoulin makes a huge stride. But, that's it. You need to strike gold on 2 out of 3 of those. Could it happen? Sure. Will it happen? I suspect the odds are a lot less likely, but that's what the trade deadline is for.

 

[Bending and Tending]

Looking at recent Cup winners, elite two way forwards seems to be a consistent ingredient. Crosby, Malkin, Kessel are elite offensively but I don't notice that Patrice Bergeron/Anze Kopitar (even going. all the way back to 09 Pittsburgh had Jordan Staal, and scoring is less than it was back then).

Is the trend of Cup winners being lead by two way forwards a coincidence or possible trouble for Pittsburgh (who many consider the early favorites to win it all next year right now)?

Who is considering them favorites?

They only have 10 forwards on their roster, an unproven defense core after Maata/Letang, and with all due respect to Fleury's past few seasons/playoffs, he has had trouble in the playoffs previously.

If people are to consider them favorites, the Penguins need more forwards (obvious; also, the right kinds of forwards), the Defense needs to show that they are solid (Pouliot, Cole, Dumolin, and Erixon need to progress into solid 3/4 defensemen), and Fleury needs to continue his play from the past few years (he's the least of my worries at the moment).

 

[Shockmaster]

Who are our legit top four guys? Legit. I've got Letang and Maatta. You hope Pouliot will get there. Maybe Cole can be a #4 on an upper echelon team. Maybe Dumoulin makes a huge stride. But, that's it. You need to strike gold on 2 out of 3 of those. Could it happen? Sure. Will it happen? I suspect the odds are a lot less likely, but that's what the trade deadline is for.

I'm not saying that isn't a concern. What I am saying though is that I don't think the "soft" label is as big of a deal as some make it out to be. I'd rather the Penguins take a chance on a young puck-mover like Pouliot than sign some jabroni defensive-defenseman that can't do jack with the puck.

 

[KIRK]

I'm not saying that isn't a concern. What I am saying though is that I don't think the "soft" label is as big of a deal as some make it out to be. I'd rather the Penguins take a chance on a young puck-mover like Pouliot than sign some jabroni defensive-defenseman that can't do jack with the puck.

The defense is soft, and it's a problem, but, yes, dealing with that issue is better than finding a pylon like Grossman or Murray was given the Pens system/other personnel.

 

[Stad]

They're winning the cup next season, I've already put down 1000 bucks on it.

 

[BruinsNeedaRussian]

They're winning the cup next season, I've already put down 1000 bucks on it.

Penguins: Probably the biggest cause of losing cup bets in the last 5+ years.

 

[Bending and Tending]

They're winning the cup next season, I've already put down 1000 bucks on it.

Soooo, who is on the 4th line?

 

[Russian Factor]

I don't think anyone's debating if the Pens will do "fine". They undoubtedly have the firepower.

However, I think the D does leave a lot to be desired. Kris Letang is a well below average #1 defenceman. Yes, offensively he is probably top 10, but play in his own end leaves a lot to be desired. Olli Maatta has a ton of upside, but at this point, he's still quite unproven with less than 100 games experience. Beyond those 2, you've got a bunch of guys who should be #4-#6 defencemen.

To me, the question is, can the Pens go into the playoffs, and beat a team like New York? or Tampa? or Montreal? or any team with a hot goaltender? I don't see Fleury standing on his head, and I don't see that D being good enough to make it not matter. The offseason isn't done, but it also doesn't appear that the Pens have cap space to bring in another defenceman with a reasonably-sized salary.

you might as well have stopped writing after that. That is simply indefensible to say. He's been in Norris contention multiple times and is at least competent in almost every single aspect of the game and absolutely great in many. But he puts up points and is talented offensively so that means he's bad in his own end tho right lol

Find me relevant performance based statistics that show Letang isn't a legitimate top pairing defenseman in this league. He excels at almost every measure. I actually watch him play so I know how good he is but you don't have to take my word for it. Do a little research

 

[mpp9]

I don't agree with this. It's definitely not their strength, but they won't lose in the playoffs because of their bottom 6. Their forward group is top 5 in the league IMO. The reason they won't win a cup is because their defense is horrible. Very little depth, and one injury will sink them.

Except our problems have been scoring goals the past 3 postseasons. Nice try though.

Our organization made the conscious choice to build around our two generational talents. That results in having to play more youth on defense. I have no problem with that.

You won't find any Pens fan saying this team's a contender next year. Maybe they do if things go right and DP takes a huge step. But we're fine building the next few years. Our core will still be very good then.

 

[Dod93Cityt]

Soooo... Toews > Crosby?

 

[Ogrezilla]

Letang is an avg #1 now? This place...

actually, he said well below

 

[Nameless]

Soooo... Toews > Crosby?

more like Toews > Gretzky

 

[Roksta]

more like Toews > Gretzky

More like Toews would > a line of Crosby - Lemieux - Gretzky on 1v3 Hockey even if Toews's team wouldn't have a goaltender

 

[Pyrophorus]

Just make the playoffs please.

I don't even hate the Pens

 

[icekoob]

I don't think so. Kessel certainly isn't enough to put them over the top as he can't forecheck let alone play defense. They need depth bad.

Though I'd love a Hawks Pens final.

 

[tom_servo]

Letang's only been getting better. If only he could stay on the ice (though you can't blame him for the stroke).

 

[Penguinator]

Letang's only been getting better. If only he could stay on the ice (though you can't blame him for the stroke).

Not sure you can blame him either for getting assaulted twice with cheap shots/boarding, once by a Flyers' goon & once by a Doan.