Does Pittsburgh have enough two way forwards to win the Cup?

[Big McLargehuge]

Penguins D going forward would look so much better if not for the head-scratcher that was the Lovejoy-Despres trade.

Tell me about it. The Pens' hatred of Despres will forever baffle me.

I'm confident in the Pens D & Fleury. We're missing a veteran anchor for the second line, but if Cole plays like he did after coming over he'll be that guy. He looks like our new Niskanen (talking more of fairly young reclamation status more than play style).

As for the forwards...we don't have enough forwards right now to field a proper line-up. Discussing the possible short-comings of the roster when we have no clue what the bottom 6 will look like is a jumping the gun a bit. As for the top six...you know what drives possession? Offense. I'm not too worried about Crosby & Malkin getting stuck in their zone too much.

 

[AINEC*]

On the topic of Jonathan Toews' two-way play and intangibles, I agree that if Crosby or Malkin even had ~50% of Toews' intangibles they'd be favourites for the Stanley Cup every year. Even 25% of Toews' two-way play, however, would make them a dynasty.

 

[topshelf15]

Looking at recent Cup winners, elite two way forwards seems to be a consistent ingredient. Crosby, Malkin, Kessel are elite offensively but I don't notice that Patrice Bergeron/Anze Kopitar (even going. all the way back to 09 Pittsburgh had Jordan Staal, and scoring is less than it was back then).

Is the trend of Cup winners being lead by two way forwards a coincidence or possible trouble for Pittsburgh (who many consider the early favorites to win it all next year right now)?

Nobody has chicago,s core ,the big 4 .If you think a team is a cup contender you need only to look at this .A elite top defense pairing ,An elite forward pair.Supported by two star players ,in Hossa and Hammer.

Pittsburgh has Two elite players thats it ,i count kessel as a star support guy ,they arent contenders

 

[Extra Texture]

No. Defense is not good enough, and the bottom six still needs improvement. Even getting a couple of solid two way additions wont solve the bigger problem of the depth and (dare I say it) lack of "experience" on the blueline.

 

[seanlinden]

Defense is a legitimate concern on that current, early Penguins roster, at least on paper...both in forwards and actual defensemen right now.

I can't see them taking a Cup this year. But I've been wrong before.

Whatever you do, don't give them a powerplay.

I'm not a big fan of the Pens, but I'd enjoy watching Kessel hoist a Cup.

Have to echo this comment.

You watch the Penguins play last year, and they weren't all that different than the team Kessel was on -- a team that when firing on all cylinders was simply going to out-score you, but their defence and goaltending was not going to win them any games when they weren't firing on all cylinders.

Defensively, they have lost Paul Martin & Christian Ehrhoff. Marc-Andre Fleury is a good goalie -- he's not a great goalie... and they've been pretty aggressive in picking from the cupboard for help now. With the series of conditions they've placed on the picks in the Kessel deal, they don't have much to move to get incremental help if they need it.

 

[SEALBound]

Toews > Crosby and Malkin combined...so I'm not exactly sure why we need this thread.

 

[Sleepy]

I don't think they're that close.

You know who's a whole lot more important to Cups than two way forwards like Toews/Kopitar/Bergeron? Playoff epic defensemen. In those playoff runs, I'd take Keith/Doughty/prime-Chara over all three.

 

[topshelf15]

I don't think they're that close.

You know who's a whole lot more important to Cups than two way forwards like Toews/Kopitar/Bergeron? Playoff epic defensemen. In those playoff runs, I'd take Keith/Doughty/prime-Chara over all three.

Yep up front they may be close ,to the best that chicago could ice.But the threesome they have on defense ,not many can touch that

 

[THall4]

Its the Defence core im worried about...

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Penguins D going forward would look so much better if not for the head-scratcher that was the Lovejoy-Despres trade.

If a young kid like Sundqvist works out like I believe he will (big, strong third line pivot that drives possession), the Pens will have the most complete roster in the Crosby era, save one thing...

A big, physical blueliner that can move. It only took 20 years to find a guy like Despres...

Their best hope now is that Dumoulin starts to use his size and plays more physical. Despres really only added his edge about two years ago, but it's a lot to hope for Dumoulin to take that same path.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Sidney Crosby is the best two way forward in the NHL

Nah, he's not a guy who's going to win a Selke or shutdown elite forwards in the post-season which is what two way play means. Are you just referring to best at offense + ok at defense = best two way? Cuz that's not how it works. I'd say Crosby is the best overall forward but there's no shortage if guys I would take over him as far as two way play goes.

 

[topshelf15]

If a young kid like Sundqvist works out like I believe he will (big, strong third line pivot that drives possession), the Pens will have the most complete roster in the Crosby era, save one thing...

A big, physical blueliner that can move. It only took 20 years to find a guy like Despres...

Their best hope now is that Dumoulin starts to use his size and plays more physical. Despres really only added his edge about two years ago, but it's a lot to hope for Dumoulin to take that same path.

Still isnt close though ,Hammer ,Keith and Seabrook .Are as many found out. A hard nut to crack ,add in Hossa,Kane and Toews,up front. And it gets daunting

 

[WarriorofTime]

Who is the Pens projected third line?

 

[Lebowski]

Nah, he's not a guy who's going to win a Selke or shutdown elite forwards in the post-season which is what two way play means. Are you just referring to best at offense + ok at defense = best two way? Cuz that's not how it works. I'd say Crosby is the best overall forward but there's no shortage if guys I would take over him as far as two way play goes.

You're not the one making the rules.

 

[wej20]

Have to echo this comment.

You watch the Penguins play last year, and they weren't all that different than the team Kessel was on -- a team that when firing on all cylinders was simply going to out-score you, but their defence and goaltending was not going to win them any games when they weren't firing on all cylinders.

Defensively, they have lost Paul Martin & Christian Ehrhoff. Marc-Andre Fleury is a good goalie -- he's not a great goalie... and they've been pretty aggressive in picking from the cupboard for help now. With the series of conditions they've placed on the picks in the Kessel deal, they don't have much to move to get incremental help if they need it.

Did you not watch the Pens? They finished 19th in G/GP and 10th in GA/GP.

Who is the Pens projected third line?

Impossible to say right now but it looks like Sutter will be centring it and he'll be flanked by some combination of Kunitz/Dupuis/Plotnikov/Bennett.

 

[rintinw]

Did you not watch the Pens? They finished 19th in G/GP and 10th in GA/GP.

While their top 4 combined for 116 man games lost

I would say that was actually pretty impressive.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Who is the Pens projected third line?

I'm thinking Kunitz-Sutter-Dupuis, which is pretty good considering that was 2/3 of our top line in 2013. People talk about lack of depth but adding Kessel addresses exactly that since it pushes these other guys down the lineup into more suitable roles.

 

[Joedaman55]

Those teams didn't win because the had better two way centers, they won because they had a better overall team than the others. Even with the offensive fire power and depth at forward they lack depth defensively that could keep them from a deep run (depending a lot on how Letang looks).

The East is looking a lot stronger this year and the Pitt/Washington rivalry might be getting real good this year.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I'm thinking Kunitz-Sutter-Dupuis, which is pretty good considering that was 2/3 of our top line in 2013. People talk about lack of depth but adding Kessel addresses exactly that since it pushes these other guys down the lineup into more suitable roles.

I've heard concerns both of those guys are finished. 36 year olds so wouldn't be shocking.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Still isnt close though ,Hammer ,Keith and Seabrook .Are as many found out. A hard nut to crack ,add in Hossa,Kane and Toews,up front. And it gets daunting

Pens would excel agt the Hawks and their style of play. They have always thrived agt teams like that. It's teams like Boston and LA that they really struggle agt.

I respect the Hawks, but if the Pens made the Finals this season, I'd much rather see them face the Hawks than the Kings.

Way too early to be thinking like that though, and my original point remains: this roster has the potential to be the best one in the Crosby era. Obviously a few things have to shake right, but that's always the case for any good team.

I've heard concerns both of those guys are finished. 36 year olds so wouldn't be shocking.

Finished as top line players, not as third liners. Huge difference.

 

[topshelf15]

Pens would excel agt the Hawks and their style of play. They have always thrived agt teams like that. It's teams like Boston and LA that they really struggle agt.

I respect the Hawks, but if the Pens made the Finals this season, I'd much rather see them face the Hawks than the Kings.

Way too early to be thinking like that though, and my original point remains: this roster has the potential to be the best one in the Crosby era. Obviously a few things have to shake right, but that's always the case for any good team.



Finished as top line players, not as third liners. Huge difference.

The Hawks support group around their core ,is weakened .And after the the top 3 on defense there are some question marks ,i think its a reload and salt some kids type of season coming up for them .

 

[stepdad gaary]

Nah, he's not a guy who's going to win a Selke or shutdown elite forwards in the post-season which is what two way play means. Are you just referring to best at offense + ok at defense = best two way? Cuz that's not how it works. I'd say Crosby is the best overall forward but there's no shortage if guys I would take over him as far as two way play goes.

A) the selke is literally a 100% reputation award at this point and the hockey writers pick one of Bergeron, Toews.


B) He has the best combination of both offensive and defensive skills. Yes. Those are the two ways that "two way forward" refers to.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

While their top 4 combined for 116 man games lost

I would say that was actually pretty impressive.

Most definitely, it was top 5 for almost the entire season until everyone got hurt down the stretch run.

 

[Russian Factor]

It is absolutely baffling to me that people say our depth is bad. This is the best depth we've had in years.

Perron - Crosby - Kessel
Kunitz - Malkin - Hornqvist
Plotnikov - Sutter - Bennet
Dupuis - Sundqvist - Rust/Wilson/Sheary/etc

and that's assuming the Penguins make no more moves. If we ship out Sutter and get a better possession player like Fehr I honestly think the Penguins would have the best forward group in the league. It's arguable but there's no denying that it's in that conversation. You essentially have 7 wingers who could be put into the top 6 if need be: Duper, Kuni, Horny, Kessel, Bennett, Plot, Perron have all played top 6 and performed well there.

Kunitz is absolutely going to rebound. He's too old now? He had foot injuries and an iron deficiency that killed his stamina and he still put up 40 points. Also, are people forgetting he had THIRTY FIVE goals allllllll the way back in oh let's see here *squints* 2014? WHAT??? But enough about the good ol days of literally two seasons ago..

 

[topshelf15]

It is absolutely baffling to me that people say our depth is bad. This is the best depth we've had in years.

Perron - Crosby - Kessel
Kunitz - Malkin - Hornqvist
Plotnikov - Sutter - Bennet
Dupuis - Sundqvist - Rust/Wilson/Sheary/etc

and that's assuming the Penguins make no more moves. If we ship out Sutter and get a better possession player like Fehr I honestly think the Penguins would have the best forward group in the league. It's arguable but there's no denying that it's in that conversation. You essentially have 7 wingers who could be put into the top 6 if need be: Duper, Kuni, Horny, Kessel, Bennett, Plot, Perron have all played top 6 and performed well there.

Kunitz is absolutely going to rebound. He's too old now? He had foot injuries and an iron deficiency that killed his stamina and he still put up 40 points. Also, are people forgetting he had THIRTY FIVE goals allllllll the way back in oh let's see here *squints* 2014? WHAT??? But enough about the good ol days of literally two seasons ago..

Lots of questions too,they are probably all good prospects atm .But having them all just make your team, and excel is wishful thinking