Does anyone still think Marner is better than Matthews?

[stickty111]

Marner has always been the most insulated Leaf in terms of who they play him with 5 on 5. When he came in as a rookie they put him in Kessel's old spot with JVR and Bozak, then threw an $11 million center at him last year, and then promoted him to play with Matthews this year. Notice how the Leafs have never put Marner with a bottom six centerman in order to try and spark up a functional third line, or put him with guys like Kapanen and Johnsson for significant amounts of time like Matthews, or demoted him to play with Kadri and Spezza like they have with Nylander.

Fact is, Marner is not better or more dominant than Matthews and never has been but has been carefully deployed to the point where he's always in a position to succeed offensively.

JVR and Bozak was the Leafs former first line with Kessel. Don't pretend like they put Marner with the equivalent of rookies (Hyman, Nylander, Johnsson and sophomore Kapanen) that Matthews was out with in his rookie year and 2018-19.

There was a comment which made an excuse for Marner's play the 1st half of the 2nd season. It was blaming Bozak and JVR.
Notice how every line Marner goes on becomes worse defensively. Marner has been sheltered a lot in terms of playing him with great centres or offensive players. You can't say the same for Matthews and Nylander.

 

[BlueBaron]

I'm different then many hockey fans in that I'm actually objective.

Making inane comments like "he's always been better" "he always was better" "he always will be better" "he's always been better, always was better and will always be better" is just an indicator to me to not give the person any credibility.

Last year Marner was better. At times this season Tavares was better. This season, as of now, I would say Matthews has been our best player BUT this does not mean he always was and always will be.

Some people just don't comprehend this.

How can you be objective about how objective you are? I smell some irony.

 

[Iapyi]

How can you be objective about how objective you are? I smell some irony.

Life experience.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

You build a team around Matthews. But I do still think that in terms of raw skill and talent, Marner is better. And that he will likely lead the team in points more than Matthews will over the years.

 

[BlueBaron]

Life experience.

Oh well...I'm sure no one else has that.... You are funny, I'll give you that.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Very different players.

Yes, Matthews is #1 on the team, but Marner is a pretty clear #2.

 

[Iapyi]

Oh well...I'm sure no one else has that.... You are funny, I'll give you that.

That's okay, I understood a long time ago that I am a more complicated person then most. Thanks for the compliments by the way.

 

[Jozay]

Matthews has always been the better player.

 

[81Leafs50]

I sure as hell hope not. Matthews is the real deal and a more all around package. It was clear from his rookie 40 goal season.

"Marner has only 17 primary assists five-on-five so far, or 1.2 per 60, and 32 overall in 59 games.

The dip at five-on-five seems to speak to the feeling that the Marner of last season hasn’t totally emerged this season. Now, there’s a luck factor worth accounting for: Marner had an on-ice shooting percentage of greater than 11 percent a season ago; that’s down under 9 percent this season. It’s possible (and probably likely) that last season was inflated, at least to some degree, for that reason alone. It also feels possible that Marner’s wondrous passing skills just aren’t needed to the same degree with Matthews as they were with Tavares, last season’s running mate.

Of the 30 five-on-five goals Matthews scored this season, Marner had a hand in 13 of them, but a direct hand, or first assist, on only eight of them.

Last season, on the other hand, Tavares potted 33 five-on-five goals. Marner assisted on 18 of them — all but one a primary assist.
The puck hasn’t seemed to follow him as much as it did then."

Monday Morning Leafs Report: Best Leafs bargains and Mitch...

 

[robertmac43]

Poll does not lie for this one!

 

[Walshy7]

I'm different then many hockey fans in that I'm actually objective.

Making inane comments like "he's always been better" "he always was better" "he always will be better" "he's always been better, always was better and will always be better" is just an indicator to me to not give the person any credibility.

Last year Marner was better. At times this season Tavares was better. This season, as of now, I would say Matthews has been our best player BUT this does not mean he always was and always will be.

Some people just don't comprehend this.

Tavares hasn’t been better than nylander let alone marner or Matthews this season. Last season sure, but this season?

As to the topic matthews has always been better, injuries have stopped him from producing every year. You can add injury prone as a reason why marner is better but I personally wouldn’t.

edit: 2nd paragraph is intended as a thread post not directed at you iapyi. Re reading it and it seems that may not be clear and would be confusing

 

[Legion34]

Marner was on the 4th line for a time or have you conveniently forgotten that?

I have always preferred Marner over Matthews but a part of that is I am biased towards Canadian players and I'm not scared to say it.

A difference between how some people view things is that I am willing to say what I think and have no problem with adapting to reality. When Marner was our best player that is what I said. This year Matthews played better all in all as far as I'm concerned and I'm not going to say otherwise.

What I find insulting is people who make a declaration and then stick to it no matter what. I know this may sound odd because it is so stupid but there are people who will say Player A is better then Player B and then they will stick to that no matter what the actual truth is.

They are so self absorbed that they don't even know the truth, all they know is what they said before and they aren't big enough people to even consider that they may have been wrong or that these things are fluid and change constantly.

marner was on the 4th line and scored 2 goals in 35 games. Not a ringing endorsement.


The difference is. At literally No point in his NHL career has a matthews line been a 4th line. Because Matthews makes in not a 4th line.

Hyman xxxx. Brown as 22 year old rookies is a a 4th Line without Matthews.

heck this was a third line in the AHL and first line for the leafs . How many players can make 2 rookie grinders a top line? 5?

 

[Iapyi]

marner was on the 4th line and scored 2 goals in 35 games. Not a ringing endorsement.


The difference is. At literally No point in his NHL career has a matthews line been a 4th line. Because Matthews makes in not a 4th line.

Hyman xxxx. Brown as 22 year old rookies is a a 4th Line without Matthews.

heck this was a third line in the AHL and first line for the leafs . How many players can make 2 rookie grinders a top line? 5?

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Legion34]

Thanks for proving my point.

that no objective fan could ever logically think marner was better?

 

[MsMeow]

Wait until next year. I think a lot of players sign a big contract and then cave under the pressure.

 

[al secord]

East coast got no love for Nylander and Hyman? .....East coast got no love for Nylander and Hyman??

 

[Doublerum1975]

Mcdavid doesn't play PK as well, so does that mean Marner is better than him too?

marner is a great player, will probably go down as one the better players to put on the leafs jersey but Matthews is still # 1.

Im just saying he plays the pk plus putting up offensive numbes Mathews doesn't

 

[Doublerum1975]

They are two of my favorites Mathews has really took a leap forward this year really glad we have both

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Unless Marner adds an elite shot, not happening.

Nothing but 100 point seasons or over point per game production eh. So nothing indeed

 

[Wafflewhipper]

There was a comment which made an excuse for Marner's play the 1st half of the 2nd season. It was blaming Bozak and JVR.
Notice how every line Marner goes on becomes worse defensively. Marner has been sheltered a lot in terms of playing him with great centres or offensive players. You can't say the same for Matthews and Nylander.

Hey that explains the penalty kill improving down the stretch too. Oh wait now! Wow what a post

 

[Iapyi]

that no objective fan could ever logically think marner was better?

Until this past season IMHO Marner was better for those seasons. Matthews upped his game this year and surpassed him for this past season. That can change each and every season.

The point of my post, which you quoted, was that I am am objective enough to grade players on how they actually play each and every season. I think it is beyond stupid to make a blanket declaration and then stick to it without any thought/regards towards how they play.

To me saying something like Player A is better then Player B and not being receptive to changing that is idiotic. Do you think anyone would be that narrow minded? I know I've seen it aplenty.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Nope. Marner should be traded for a dman and a defensively reliable winger. Awful contract

 

[Raging Bull]

Why do we always have to knock one star down to praise the other?

 

[hamzarocks]

Matthews is a bit better as a player. Career ppg wise not much a difference between the two of them.

Marner was better last year while matthews is better this year. Overall matthews is better for his career and his ability to develop into a 100+ point two way center is very enticing.

Marner has 100+ potential as well but his size and frame can limit his ceiling on the defensive end.

These two are our franchise players. Wish they both got more term on their deals but what can you do.

 

[kb]

Until this past season IMHO Marner was better for those seasons. Matthews upped his game this year and surpassed him for this past season. That can change each and every season.

The point of my post, which you quoted, was that I am am objective enough to grade players on how they actually play each and every season. I think it is beyond stupid to make a blanket declaration and then stick to it without any thought/regards towards how they play.

To me saying something like Player A is better then Player B and not being receptive to changing that is idiotic. Do you think anyone would be that narrow minded? I know I've seen it aplenty.

Matthews was better in their rookie seasons, and in their second seasons, he had 63 points in 62 games while Marner had 69 in 20 more games.. Last year is close, but I give the nod to Marner even though he played with Tavares while Matthews played with Johnsson and Kapanen.