Does anyone still think Marner is better than Matthews?

[Wafflewhipper]

Over the last four seasons these two are pretty equal production. I said this before and i will just repeat it again, Matthews is a elite player in the league never mind the Leafs alone. Thats why he is worth every penny of his contract. He is the present day Ovechkin for scoring prowess.

Marner has played slightly more games over 4 years and as expected has been a points machine even with a year of fourth line disruption to his offense. They are almost identical points per game career now, Matthews caught up this year. They produced identical 1.14 points per game played this season.

Matthews and Marner are statistical equals. That might not fit the narrative the OP wants but these two are equally important to the team at this point. Matthews is the superior scorer,Marner is the superior play maker.

That said, Nylander has the best combined package of skating,Playmaking and scoring right now. How good Nylander might get in two or three years is fun to watch progress.

Where are all the flocks of willy haters burying their heads these days anyways. I’m thinking the same place they had them buried when they were all on here shooting off how poison he and his contract was.

 

[Beaumaris]

Some things you have or you don't have.

We will see.

 

[stickty111]

We will see.

If he develops an elite shot, thats good but unlikely.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Paul does.

actually he doesn't ... but i know it is a popular narrative ... he would like Mitch to get better and be better but I have heard him say it many times amongst friends

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Great player. I see a season coming that he averages a assist per game as this group gets better together. He has a great wrist shot already. He has not gone to the dirty areas because thats wasn’t looking like the game plan when we were holding possession in the offensive zone this year. I yelled at the tv go go go to the net mitch. It just didn’t happen. He has a great touch around the net at speed because they underestimate his patience. He doesn’t have a great shot and if i am him i work on it hard with my development people and stick manufacturer. He passes because 1 he has absolute snipers to play with and 2 knows he doesn’t have a great shot. I would like to see it improve it.

This season in general wasn’t a very sharp looking year for him. By that i mean his signature work ethic slipped as did his consistency because of that.

Still over a point per game! There is not a way to look negatively on any of our top 4 guys. They darn well carried the team all year even though still developing as a group, a you g grouo.

There is better to come.

 

[Beaumaris]

If he develops an elite shot, thats good but unlikely.

Again,we will see.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

I have always preferred Marner over Matthews but a part of that is I am biased towards Canadian players and I'm not scared to say it.

Sigh. I guess I'm happy you actually said it as opposed to the posters who will never admit it but the bias is in the subtext of their every comment.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Matthews is the better player but Marner might be more valuable to us because Matthews is a flight risk. In 4 years Arizona is gonna offer him a max contract to return home and be their hometown hero and I’m worried he’s gonna take it.

 

[Stamkos4life]

The answer is Matthews in both cases, so I'm not really sure why you would ask that. But yeah, it depends on whether you prefer the better player or the inferior player

Of course you would say something so obtuse.

Marner has been our best playoff performer.

Marner plays all situations.

Marner has been our most consistent producer.

Career high 93 points vs 80.

Marner is paid less and has extra term vs Matthews.

Funny how the "better player" cant produce as much and yet doesn't pk either.

The best player makes his teammates better. Every line mate marner has had ended up with a career year. Jvr, bozak, JT, Matthews, hyman, etc, etc.

Dont be so foolish. It is very close.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Also you can't say Marner has higher upside as he makes players around him better. Matthews does the same thing.
The more logical debate was Nylander vs Marner. When you look at Nylander's season this season, that is more of a fair question.
Matthews vs Marner is not a debate. Matthews was always better by a good amount.

You are joking, right?

Marner had a worse season playing with Matthews than he did with JT.

Matthews had a better season playing with marner than he has with anyone else.

JT's best season came with marner.

Jvr and bozak had their best season with marner.

The only player who has had their best season with auston is Hyman but I'd creidt that more to marner. He uses his teammates much more and a lot better than auston.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Sigh. I guess I'm happy you actually said it as opposed to the posters who will never admit it but the bias is in the subtext of their every comment.

And their is no bias in the subtext of the posters fawning over Matthew's?

Get over yourself.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Of course you would say something so obtuse.

Marner has been our best playoff performer.

Marner plays all situations.

Marner has been our most consistent producer.

Career high 93 points vs 80.

Marner is paid less and has extra term vs Matthews.

Funny how the "better player" cant produce as much and yet doesn't pk either.

The best player makes his teammates better. Every line mate marner has had ended up with a career year. Jvr, bozak, JT, Matthews, hyman, etc, etc.

Dont be so foolish. It is very close.

That 80 point season you referenced isn’t finished yet. Matthews might top 93 points and win the rocket Richard trophy.

 

[EXTRAS]

I feel like Nylander feels like he is better than Mitch, but Mitch manages to produce more despite that.

 

[ACC1224]

Sigh. I guess I'm happy you actually said it as opposed to the posters who will never admit it but the bias is in the subtext of their every comment.

IMO, there is a much greater bias against Marner because of last years negotiation.
People are weird that way.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

And their is no bias in the subtext of the posters fawning over Matthew's?

Get over yourself.

What would the bias be? I mean I prefer him because he's better at ice hockey. Also I don't know why you post on the Leaf boards when the season is going, I'm even more confused now. Read a book or something. You hate Matthews, we get it.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

And their is no bias in the subtext of the posters fawning over Matthew's?

Get over yourself.

Why do double posts happen all the time now?

I guess I'll use this to ask what you think "get over yourself" even means in this context? I don't even understand how you think that's a fitting insult.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

IMO, there is a much greater bias against Marner because of last years negotiation.
People are weird that way.

Well at least the contract negotiations are a controllable thing unlike birthplace. It logically follows to be upset with Marner for the contract negotiations, although I feel like the people who still give a crap about that are the same ones who hate all of our players because of their contracts. So I don't know how much bias there is in that regard, if Nylander and Matthews weren't as good as they were this year they'd still be getting similar comments. Any time Matthews wasn't noticeable for a period he'd get shredded for his salary. This board is just obsessed with contracts.

It still is unbelievable to me how prevalent and cocky the Marner>Matthews posters were, like it was so obviously not the case but one year he outplayed him and they had to spend all summer saying "I told you so."

 

[Stamkos4life]

Something I recently thought of:

McDavid and matthews are represented by the same agents.

McDavid got 8 years and 12.5 mil after winning an art ross and a ted lindsay.

Matthews got 5 years and 11.634 mil after a 63 point season (in 62 games).

There is quite a difference between these 2 contracts and the 2 players. Mcdavids runs til 25-26 while Matthew's ends after 23-24. That means mcd will still play two more seasons at 12.5 while auston is on his next contract. How much will he want next? Or will he go sign with Arizona?

So either the agents had no idea what they were doing with the McDavid contract, or, more likely, mcdavid didnt want to break the bank while auston had no qualms in taking dubas to the wood shed.

Auston doesn't appear to be a team first player. Never been a team captain before. Asks for more money than he deserves. Hasn't won a single playoff round in at least 5+ years. Dont forget that whole debacle from the offseason with the security guard.

The poll results are not an accurate representation. Fans tend to get googly eyed over goal scorers but playmakers are often the better player.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Over the last four seasons these two are pretty equal production. I said this before and i will just repeat it again, Matthews is a elite player in the league never mind the Leafs alone. Thats why he is worth every penny of his contract. He is the present day Ovechkin for scoring prowess.

Marner has played slightly more games over 4 years and as expected has been a points machine even with a year of fourth line disruption to his offense. They are almost identical points per game career now, Matthews caught up this year. They produced identical 1.14 points per game played this season.

Matthews and Marner are statistical equals. That might not fit the narrative the OP wants but these two are equally important to the team at this point. Matthews is the superior scorer,Marner is the superior play maker.

That said, Nylander has the best combined package of skating,Playmaking and scoring right now. How good Nylander might get in two or three years is fun to watch progress.

Where are all the flocks of willy haters burying their heads these days anyways. I’m thinking the same place they had them buried when they were all on here shooting off how poison he and his contract was.

Good post WW.

 

[ACC1224]

Well at least the contract negotiations are a controllable thing unlike birthplace. It logically follows to be upset with Marner for the contract negotiations, although I feel like the people who still give a crap about that are the same ones who hate all of our players because of their contracts. So I don't know how much bias there is in that regard, if Nylander and Matthews weren't as good as they were this year they'd still be getting similar comments. Any time Matthews wasn't noticeable for a period he'd get shredded for his salary. This board is just obsessed with contracts.

It still is unbelievable to me how prevalent and cocky the Marner>Matthews posters were, like it was so obviously not the case but one year he outplayed him and they had to spend all summer saying "I told you so."

There is/was nothing logical to be upset with Marner over his contract. He did nothing wrong and missed one practice. I could see holding it against Nylander as missing half the year affected the Team.

As for the bolded, I don't really see it. Seems there are many more that use , for some strange reason, Nylander playing well this year as a way to put Marner down or using Lou Lam in NYI as a way to pump Dubas up. Seems there are a lot more illogical takes on this board then rational ones.

** you asked about double post, to avoid that just hot the Post Reply button once. After it turns read just refresh the page.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

There is/was nothing logical to be upset with Marner over his contract. He did nothing wrong and missed one practice. I could see holding it against Nylander as missing half the year affected the Team.

As for the bolded, I don't really see it. Seems there are many more that use , for some strange reason, Nylander playing well this year as a way to put Marner down or using Lou Lam in NYI as a way to pump Dubas up. Seems there are a lot more illogical takes on this board then rational ones.

** you asked about double post, to avoid that just hot the Post Reply button once. After it turns read just refresh the page.

Oh no doubt illogical takes are rampant. I don't personally hold Marner's contract negotiations against him but people who do think he gouged the team at least have something to hold onto. It's more of an opinion than a bias, which nationality based preferences inherently are. Personally I think it's ludicrous to think a player should settle for less than they can get from the richest team in the league but that's neither here nor there.

Thanks for the double post advice.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

1 point bump (though 6 goals), 6 point bump, 2 point bump (6 goals) could just as easily imply they cannot rely on Marner to shoot and so do so more themselves as it could that he makes them better goal scorers without impacting their total offense much. I know he is a great passer and I'm sure he is helping them but the total impact doesn't seem as big as it should.

I love Marner but those numbers are actually kind of disappointing. I would hope for more than a point or two bump.

Vague way of looking at it because the way i remember it was the defensive play Marner added and the possession numbers i think went up. They allowed less goals against as a line. Better defensively! They were putting up some terrible numbers because they could get a puck back previous to Marner. There is more to it than offensive play at that time

 

[WTFMAN99]

Matthews has an edge because of position, goal scoring ability and this year seemed to add a bit more physicality to his game, way more high traffic areas, finishes checks and his 200 foot game has come along very well.

I think if they both had signed like 7 year deals or in Marner's case, 8 years for his cap hit, less scrutiny for sure and we'd all be singing koombaya.

 

[Gabriel426]

Something I recently thought of:

McDavid and matthews are represented by the same agents.

McDavid got 8 years and 12.5 mil after winning an art ross and a ted lindsay.

Matthews got 5 years and 11.634 mil after a 63 point season (in 62 games).

There is quite a difference between these 2 contracts and the 2 players. Mcdavids runs til 25-26 while Matthew's ends after 23-24. That means mcd will still play two more seasons at 12.5 while auston is on his next contract. How much will he want next? Or will he go sign with Arizona?

So either the agents had no idea what they were doing with the McDavid contract, or, more likely, mcdavid didnt want to break the bank while auston had no qualms in taking dubas to the wood shed.

Auston doesn't appear to be a team first player. Never been a team captain before. Asks for more money than he deserves. Hasn't won a single playoff round in at least 5+ years. Dont forget that whole debacle from the offseason with the security guard.

The poll results are not an accurate representation. Fans tend to get googly eyed over goal scorers but playmakers are often the better player.

McDavid's Contract at that time was 25% more than the highest contract.
I know it is easy to say Matthews is not a team player....but from this past season when the team seemed to give up on Babs, he was the only one who was performing, he was leading the team, he was our best players and his 200ft game is back.

To me, having Matthews current deal expired before McDavid and others are great b/c we get to sign him before McDavid's next deal and we are paying him for more of his prime years.

 

[ACC1224]

McDavid's Contract at that time was 25% more than the highest contract.
I know it is easy to say Matthews is not a team player....but from this past season when the team seemed to give up on Babs, he was the only one who was performing, he was leading the team, he was our best players and his 200ft game is back.

To me, having Matthews current deal expired before McDavid and others are great b/c we get to sign him before McDavid's next deal and we are paying him for more of his prime years.

I guess it's perception but he appeared to me to be the most obvious quitter on the team in the weeks leading up to Babcocks firing.