PelagicJoe
Registered User
Datsyuk will be a first ballot Hall of Famer. Zetterberg will eventually get in, but not right away. Osgood.... probably not.
Outside of of 2007-2009, I really don't think Z was comparable to Datsyuk. No disrespect meant, just for the majority of the time they played, Datsyuk was clearly the better player, and when he wasn't, they were close.Datsyuk easily, and I think Zetterberg is just as deserving. They were equally effective for us. Unfortunately the awards went mostly to Datsyuk prob due to his flashiness, so there's a much greater chance of him getting into the hall than Z.
An honest question if I may - and others here can respond...Datsyuk 100% in.
Zetterberg- 60-65% IMO. He's pretty much the definition of probable borderline, who generally get in but may take awhile for a weak year. His peak was excellent ofc, but he didn't have much in the way of longevity, and was probably never a top 3 or even 5 forward in the league. Still, if people argue for players like Marleau, I don't see how you can keep Z, who was an objectively better player, out.
Osgood- 0%. Not enough individual success. Yes, his win/loss is insane, as is two cups, but voters know and remember what teams he was on.
Outside of of 2007-2009, I really don't think Z was comparable to Datsyuk. No disrespect meant, just for the majority of the time they played, Datsyuk was clearly the better player, and when he wasn't, they were close.
Related to this, are there advanced goaltending statistics to normalize for the skaters in front of them? Maybe based on time of possession and quality scoring chances per game?An honest question if I may - and others here can respond...
Forgive my ignorance, but how many HoF netminders had a poor team in front of them, or how many netminders made it into the HoF that did not win a Cup?
I never thought Osgood was among the best goalies of any era in which he played. I'm confused that there's push for him to make the Hall, though I grant that I don't know anything about his non-NHL achievements (if any) that might tip the balance.
Outside of of 2007-2009, I really don't think Z was comparable to Datsyuk. No disrespect meant, just for the majority of the time they played, Datsyuk was clearly the better player, and when he wasn't, they were close.
I gave 2009 as a toss up due to the playoffs.In terms of highlight reel plays Datsyuk was by far better. But when you look at the numbers and what they did on the ice he really wasn't clearly better than Z. I put them both around the same level but with different styles. And they were both great defensively so it's not like there's a gap there either.
If anything 2009 was one of the seasons were Dats was clearly ahead of Z in the regular season.
I gave 2009 as a toss up due to the playoffs.
That being said, you really can't think Post 2011 Zetterberg was as impactful as Datsyuk, can you? Zetterberg's defensive game declined significantly after his back and wrist injury, as did his shot. That's not to say it was his fault, but Z seemed to be more an opportunistic producer, opposed to Datsyuk who could do it all himself, and for my money was a much better puck possession and defensive player post 2010
There’s a reason Datsyuk has the highest Corsi in the history of the stat. He was an absolute puck possession monster.
Z was a great defensive player probably right up until the year he had back surgery and missed that series against Boston. He literally put Toews in his pocket in that 12-13 series against Chicago.
He also did it to Getzlaf and prime Crosby... Z was an insane matchup center. He was also a lot nastier with his stick than his other worldly gentleman persona. It is a part of why guy's always melted down towards him. He was a tough dude to play against. If I needed to shut someone down for one game I am tempted to lean Zetterberg, him or Fedorov in terms of my lifetime. I know Stevie and Dats were great, but those two could flat out erase somebody and drive them crazy while doing it.
Yeah, he really just seemed to take a crazy amount of pride in those 1 on 1 matchups. Where Datsyuk didn’t want to be bogged down with erasing 1 guy for the whole game because he was more of a free roamer.
Also just noticing your avatar... that is really sad to hear
Indeed, there is a thread in the main NHL section. She will be missed and her impact here was enormous. We lost one of the greatest Wings fans and people this morning.
Z's will in those situations was incredible.
It certainly affected his goal scoring and footspeed but he was still surprisingly productive. And I think "post 2010" is calling his defensive demise too early. As others have mentioned, Z being all over Toews in 2013 is an example of how he was still strong defensively.I gave 2009 as a toss up due to the playoffs.
That being said, you really can't think Post 2011 Zetterberg was as impactful as Datsyuk, can you? Zetterberg's defensive game declined significantly after his back and wrist injury, as did his shot. That's not to say it was his fault, but Z seemed to be more an opportunistic producer, opposed to Datsyuk who could do it all himself, and for my money was a much better puck possession and defensive player post 2010
Datsyuk | Zetterberg | |
2012 | 67 | 69 |
2013 | 49 | 48 |
2014 | 37 | 48 |
2015 | 65 | 66 |
2016 | 49 | 50 |
Not pointing you out in particular (I apologize if I come across as a a-hole), but IMHO - what amuses me most is how many will take 'X' netminder, and say he's HoF worthy, and then say 'B' netminder is not...I don't know if Osgood will get in or not but in my book he's a compiler and shouldn't (Sorry Ozzy). He was an average to better than average and occasionally very good goaltender for years on a team that was mostly very good.
I'm also a little surprised that people consider Dats a first ballot lock but Z borderline. To me they're a lot closer together in consideration.