Do these players make the Hall of Fame?

Do these players make the Hall of Fame?


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MBH

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Osgood was a poor puck handler which resulted in some major gaffes. Unfortunately, that's how many people remember him.

His stats are HOF quality.

Ozzie was a good puckhandler and an above-average goalie.

Hasek was a shit puckhandler. Nobody gave a shit about puckhandling. They put him in the Hall because he was an elite netminder.
 

MBH

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How many times did Ozzie finish in the top 5 in all start voting at goalie?
One time.
So, he was viewed as a top 5 goalie one season in his career.
He also placed sixth one year and 7th one year.

In 17 years, one top 5 finish. 2 more top 10 finishes.

Zetterberg - 3 top 5 finishes. 10 top 10 finishes.
Datsyuk - 3 top 5 finishes. 8 top 10 finishes.

Other goalies in Ozzie's era?
Roy - 10 top 5 finishes
Brodeur - 12 top 5 finishes.
Hasek - 8 top 5 finishes.
Belfour - 9 top 5 finishes.
 

Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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What about Mikhailov, Holecek, or Martinec? Those three should have been inducted a long time ago. Until Nedomansky got in, I wondered if the HHOF committee even realized that the Czechs played hockey before Jagr came to the NHL. There wasn't a player you listed that I'd rank above those three players.
Good post. I only know about Mikhailov, the other 2 I'll have to look up, maybe they were before my time? I don't doubt that Mikhailov was better than probably most, if not all of whom I listed. I do know he was among the CCCP elites, which is truly remarkable. I wish Fetisov, Larionov & the other elite Russians defected by '84, we'd have gotten to see some/most them in thier prime vs. NHL talent. I know there's some footage on YT & Intl. tourneys, but imagine Fetisov & Larionov lining up in a gm 7 SCF vs. the Oilers. '87 Canada Cup was probably the greatest tourney I've witnessed replays of.

While I became a casual hockey fan in Long Island during the late '70's, it wasn't until 1980 that I was "hooked on hockey", but not because of the Isles SC 1st run. It was the '80 Winter Olympics & USA's victory & even more so, the Russian puck-possession. You could just see the intelligence of their systems, so orchestrated like a machine. Every game was so clinical. Best game ever. HM to '02 WCF, chasing Patty out of the crease.
 

Lazlo Hollyfeld

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You're dead to me.
:laugh: well it was bound to happen eventually.

I'm going from memory and liked Zubov when he played but don't remember him being super exceptional. Like he had a tremendous rookie campaign I think, was solid for years and maybe had another great season or two?
 

Roomba With a Bauer

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I am a weird one here: I don't think Zetterberg or Datsyuk should get in, but Osgood should.

Osgood is 13th in all time wins, had 30 win seasons with two separate teams, 30th in shutouts, had even better stats in the playoffs, won two cups as a starter and went to two additional finals. His win% is top-10. His 2008 and 2009 playoffs were insane.

I feel really bad for Osgood. The dude got shat on his whole career. He should've won the Conn-Smythe in 2008 and if he had been any goalie but Chris Osgood he would have. The guy held the Penguins to ten goals in essentially 7 games. I wish they would've never dumped him for Hasek since I don't think Hasek was really a difference maker in 2002.

I remember seeing a stat way back in like 1997 that Osgood was step-by-step with Brodeur up until that point in their careers. The way Holland dumped him in 2002 was really the start of my dislike for him.
 

Bench

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:laugh: well it was bound to happen eventually.

I'm going from memory and liked Zubov when he played but don't remember him being super exceptional. Like he had a tremendous rookie campaign I think, was solid for years and maybe had another great season or two?

Oh goodness. I try not to wax too often about players that weren't Wings, but Zubov was a force, guys. A top pairing defender for one of the best teams for a decade. The epitome of a powerplay QB and puck mover that wasn't a liability defensively. Smart with his stick and never out of position. 0.72 PPG from the blueline during the dead puck era (Lidstrom with 0.73 PPG). 117 career playoff points in 164 games (0.71 PPG). Lidstrom had 0.7 PPG in the playoffs, for comparison. Zubov played 30 damn minutes a game in the playoffs routinely. Dallas was a physically imposing team with incredible defense and Zubov was the cornerstone of that. Like the Wings with Lidstrom, as soon as Zubov retired, there was a massive black hole on the blueline for years to come.

Zubov is overshadowed in that era because Lidstrom is probably the best defender to ever step on NHL ice. And then you have more physical guys like Pronger who could dominate games in a more memorable way than puck control and finesse.

That Dallas franchise full of these guys who were all-time greats but because they were in the same conference and era with genuine legends, they never quite got the same recognition. Modano was amazing, but he wasn't Yzerman or Sakic, for example. My boy Jere will forever be the most underrated. And during that time, watching Dallas games wasn't something just anyone could do, so you're talking a small market with poor media coverage.

During his era, I wouldn't pick 5 guys over Zubov as my top defender. And when you're in that handful of elite guys, I think you belong in the Hall.
 

MBH

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Zubov.
16 year career.
3 top 5 finishes in All Star voting 4 top 10 finishes in All Star voting.
12 times in the top 17 in Norris voting.
Probably faced anti-Russian from voters for 1/2 his career.
2 Cups.
Definitely worthy of consideration.

Another guy who should be considered is Gonchar.
20 Years. 4 top 5 finishes in All Star voting. 6 more top 10 finishes. 12 times in the top 18 Norris voting.
One Cup.
 

GMR

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Good post. I only know about Mikhailov, the other 2 I'll have to look up, maybe they were before my time? I don't doubt that Mikhailov was better than probably most, if not all of whom I listed. I do know he was among the CCCP elites, which is truly remarkable. I wish Fetisov, Larionov & the other elite Russians defected by '84, we'd have gotten to see some/most them in thier prime vs. NHL talent. I know there's some footage on YT & Intl. tourneys, but imagine Fetisov & Larionov lining up in a gm 7 SCF vs. the Oilers. '87 Canada Cup was probably the greatest tourney I've witnessed replays of.

While I became a casual hockey fan in Long Island during the late '70's, it wasn't until 1980 that I was "hooked on hockey", but not because of the Isles SC 1st run. It was the '80 Winter Olympics & USA's victory & even more so, the Russian puck-possession. You could just see the intelligence of their systems, so orchestrated like a machine. Every game was so clinical. Best game ever. HM to '02 WCF, chasing Patty out of the crease.
The Canadians did not play a famous series against the Czechs like they did against the Russians. That's where guys like Kharlamov and Tretiak got their backing to make the HHOF. Yakushev somehow made it over Mikhailov and that was entirely because of the Summit Series.

I think Nedomansky was the first Czech inducted from that era of players. My guess is he only made it because he spent time in the NHL.

Anyway, if you ever get a chance to watch some of the Czechs vs. Soviets matchups from the 1970's, it will be some of the most skilled hockey you'll see. Those teams were a great matchup.
 
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GMR

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I am a weird one here: I don't think Zetterberg or Datsyuk should get in, but Osgood should.

Osgood is 13th in all time wins, had 30 win seasons with two separate teams, 30th in shutouts, had even better stats in the playoffs, won two cups as a starter and went to two additional finals. His win% is top-10. His 2008 and 2009 playoffs were insane.

I feel really bad for Osgood. The dude got shat on his whole career. He should've won the Conn-Smythe in 2008 and if he had been any goalie but Chris Osgood he would have. The guy held the Penguins to ten goals in essentially 7 games. I wish they would've never dumped him for Hasek since I don't think Hasek was really a difference maker in 2002.

I remember seeing a stat way back in like 1997 that Osgood was step-by-step with Brodeur up until that point in their careers. The way Holland dumped him in 2002 was really the start of my dislike for him.
How many times was Osgood considered for a postseason award? I understand he played in the same era as Hasek, Roy, Brodeur and Belfour, but still.....he doesn't have a lot of All Star appearances and was never considered a great goalie. Wins are a team stat. Not an individual stat. How many times was he among the league leaders in save percentage?
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

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Zubov.
16 year career.
3 top 5 finishes in All Star voting 4 top 10 finishes in All Star voting.
12 times in the top 17 in Norris voting.
Probably faced anti-Russian from voters for 1/2 his career.
2 Cups.
Definitely worthy of consideration.

Another guy who should be considered is Gonchar.
20 Years. 4 top 5 finishes in All Star voting. 6 more top 10 finishes. 12 times in the top 18 Norris voting.
One Cup.

Not that you're wrong (I agree with Zubov being a HoFer) but all of the stats you listed are conjecture or wholy unrelated to why he should be in the Hall.

Top 17 in Norris voting? Who the hell measures it like that?
Probably faced anti-Russian voters? How on Earth do you go about measuring something like that?

And again with Gonchar... Why are you using weird numbers to justify it? Once you get past the top 5 for a postseason award, votes for it really don't matter at all.

Further, wasn't the All Star game completely fan voted? Didn't John Scott win All-Star MVP once? All Star selections are bullcrap. Zubov has a case on his black and white statistical numbers. He has a case because of those two Cups. When you bend it and use weird things to try to make it look better, you're inadvertently casting aspersions on the dude's career.

Zubov was a fabulous defenseman who kept up with Lidstrom offensively and was still good defensively. He's worthy of consideration because his stats make him so and he was routinely a key cog on winning hockey teams.

Sergei Zubov Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

Just as valid as what you used... look at the similarity scores who Zubov's career was most like. Of his closest contemporaries statistically the only ones not in the hall of fame are those not eligible to be elected yet.
 
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Lil Sebastian Cossa

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How many times was Osgood considered for a postseason award? I understand he played in the same era as Hasek, Roy, Brodeur and Belfour, but still.....he doesn't have a lot of All Star appearances and was never considered a great goalie. Wins are a team stat. Not an individual stat. How many times was he among the league leaders in save percentage?

All Star was fan voted and not representative of a damn thing.
 

MBH

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Not that you're wrong (I agree with Zubov being a HoFer) but all of the stats you listed are conjecture or wholy unrelated to why he should be in the Hall.

Top 17 in Norris voting? Who the hell measures it like that?
Probably faced anti-Russian voters? How on Earth do you go about measuring something like that?

And again with Gonchar... Why are you using weird numbers to justify it? Once you get past the top 5 for a postseason award, votes for it really don't matter at all.

Further, wasn't the All Star game completely fan voted? Didn't John Scott win All-Star MVP once? All Star selections are bullcrap. Zubov has a case on his black and white statistical numbers. He has a case because of those two Cups. When you bend it and use weird things to try to make it look better, you're inadvertently casting aspersions on the dude's career.

Zubov was a fabulous defenseman who kept up with Lidstrom offensively and was still good defensively. He's worthy of consideration because his stats make him so and he was routinely a key cog on winning hockey teams.

Sergei Zubov Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

Just as valid as what you used... look at the similarity scores who Zubov's career was most like. Of his closest contemporaries statistically the only ones not in the hall of fame are those not eligible to be elected yet.

Because if you use blind stats, accumulators start to look like hall of famers.
I look at how guys compared to the best in their position.
I think Zubov is borderline.
Same with Gonchar.
They have the overall stats. They're borderline in terms of being consistently regarded as elite.
They've won.
Then it comes down to that je ne sais quoi...
Datsyuk had that je ne sais quoi. Zetterberg did, too, to some degree.

A guy like Clark Gillies, who lacked the career stats to be in the HOF, had that legend (X factor) about him.

Cam Neely - 4 times he finished top 2 in all star voting. That's the kind of thing that gets him in there even if he lacks the overall stats.
 

Retire91

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I think Daytsuk gets in. There was a certain admiration around the league especially from other players that he was a special player. It wasn't just Detroit fans driving the hype train and it wasn't just highlight reals, anyone that watched the game regularly knew there was something unique about him. If you asked any NHL player or coach in the 00's to make up their best roster form their career time frame, I think 100% of the rosters would include him.

This is not taking away anything from Zetterberg, we all now how good he is, but I wouldn't be surprised if his skills and accomplishments don't make. I am not saying he won't. Just that I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't.

As far as Osgood he belongs in the Hall of the Very Good but not the HOF. His stats are a product of a stacked roster that surrounded him. The red wing players that are in the hall were all outstanding individual players when reviewed against their piers. I watched most of Osgoods career and he was a good goalie, but he was seldom great. The wings would still be a presidents trophy team with almost any NHL goalie during Osgood's peak career. There was nothing special about him. He just needed to be good and he was.
 

Peter Tosh

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Dec 19, 2007
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Z and Dats will get in, but I don’t think Ozzy is even close. There are arguments for him, and I would be happy if it happened, but he was a top 10-15 goalie during most of his career and the fact that he was playing for an all star team makes it hard to assess how valuable he actually was.
 

The Wizard of Oz

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I think Daytsuk gets in. There was a certain admiration around the league especially from other players that he was a special player. It wasn't just Detroit fans driving the hype train and it wasn't just highlight reals, anyone that watched the game regularly knew there was something unique about him. If you asked any NHL player or coach in the 00's to make up their best roster form their career time frame, I think 100% of the rosters would include him.

This is not taking away anything from Zetterberg, we all now how good he is, but I wouldn't be surprised if his skills and accomplishments don't make. I am not saying he won't. Just that I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't.

As far as Osgood he belongs in the Hall of the Very Good but not the HOF. His stats are a product of a stacked roster that surrounded him. The red wing players that are in the hall were all outstanding individual players when reviewed against their piers. I watched most of Osgoods career and he was a good goalie, but he was seldom great. The wings would still be a presidents trophy team with almost any NHL goalie during Osgood's peak career. There was nothing special about him. He just needed to be good and he was.
Z’s in. He’s highly respected amongst the league brass and his playoff resume is top 5 in the modern era. Not to mention his dominating performance in 08 against Crosby. He lost a whole season of his prime and fell off due to injuries. His narrative is stronger than his counting stats.
 
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