Do these players make the Hall of Fame?

[Chris 84]

joe nieuwendyk, brendan shanahan and dave andreychuk are in the hall. not saying that they shouldn't be, just saying that if they qualify then surely both datsyuk and zetterberg qualify as well. as for osgood, it is possible, but not likely imo.

 

[Frk It]

Well unless you kick some guys out the Hall of Very Good already exists is kind of my opinion.

At least it isn't baseball bad where the Hall of Fame is missing a couple of the best players ever while defending keeping in loathsome individuals like Ty Cobb.

Being lucky enough to play on the right team and with the right players is the reason more than a few guys are in.

Honestly more bullish on MAF getting in and I think Osgood was better than him.

For me, Fleury has the talent to be in the Hall if Fame but lacks the consistency.

After winning in O9 he had 4 playoff runs in a row with a sub-.900 sv%.

It was one of the biggest issues with that team inbetween Cups.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Well unless you kick some guys out the Hall of Very Good already exists is kind of my opinion.

At least it isn't baseball bad where the Hall of Fame is missing a couple of the best players ever while defending keeping in loathsome individuals like Ty Cobb.

Being lucky enough to play on the right team and with the right players is the reason more than a few guys are in.

Honestly more bullish on MAF getting in and I think Osgood was better than him.

I'm hardly a Baseball authority, but I've read a lot of revisionism on how Cobb wasn't that bad, and it was a little sensationalized by people who did not like him.

 

[Ingvar]

joe nieuwendyk, brendan shanahan and dave andreychuk are in the hall. not saying that they shouldn't be, just saying that if they qualify then surely both datsyuk and zetterberg qualify as well. as for osgood, it is possible, but not likely imo.

That’s really unfair to Shanahan.
This post gave me an idea to compare Yzerman, Shanahan, Sundin, Alfredsson and Theo Fleury with Datsyuk and Zetterberg just to see where Eurotwins fall on the scale of HoF.

Let’s start with the guys who are already in:

Yzerman:
Top-10 point finishes: 3, 3, 4, 7, 7, 10
Top-10 goal finishes: 2, 2, 3, 6, 6, 6
Postseason all-stars: 1
Trophies: Lindsay, Selke, Smythe (Masterton)
Stanley cups: 3
Bonus points: Canada cup, Olympics, 7th in points, 9th in goals, highest scoring season besides Gretzky and Lemieux, longest tenured captain
Result: surefire first ballot HoF. The only possible knock here is relatively small number of single season personal achievements but being top-10 in goals and points makes it irrelevant.

Shanahan:
Top-10 point finishes: 8, 10
Top-10 goal finishes: 5, 6, 6, 9, 10
Postseason all-stars: 1, 1, 2
Trophies: (King Clancy)
Stanley cups: 3
Bonus points: Triple Gold, Canada cup, power forward, 500 goals, 1000 points
Result: controversially not a first ballot HoF. The key to induction is production + grit. Being a LW probably helped with all-star record.

Sundin:
Top-10 point finishes: 4, 7
Top-10 goal finishes: 2, 8, 10
Postseason all-stars: 2, 2
Trophies: (Messier)
Stanley cups: 0
Bonus points: Olympics, WC x3, intangibles, 500 goals, 1000 points
Result: controversially a first ballot HoF. If we dismiss playing for Toronto then his international career and being a pioneer of Swedish hockey pushed him to first ballot.

Ok, here it gets interesting.

Alfredsson:
Top-10 point finishes: 4, 7, 9
Top-10 goal finishes: 9, 9, 9
Postseason all-stars: 2
Trophies: (Calder, King Clancy, Messier)
Stanley cups: 0
Bonus points: Olympics, intangibles, 1000 points
Result: not a first ballot HoF. He is expected to make it soon but he lacks special something to force himself in. He is a good standard to measure against.

Fleury:
Top-10 point finishes: 9, 9, 9
Top-10 goal finishes: 2, 6, 7
Postseason all-stars: 2
Trophies: (Plus-Minus)
Stanley cups: 1
Bonus points: Olympics, Canada Cup, 1000 points
Result: not in HoF. His numbers are good enough but his off-ice issues keep him out. Current weak years are his best chance to get in.

Now let’s inspect Eurotwins.

Datsyuk:
Top-10 point finishes: 4, 4, 10
Top-10 goal finishes:
Postseason all-stars: 2
Trophies: Selke x3 (Plus-Minus, Lady Byng x4)
Stanley cups: 2
Bonus points: Triple Gold, the Magic Man
My prediction: borderline first ballot HoF. Being exceptional two-way forward (with trophies to show) while still providing HoF level offense puts him in but first ballot is a matter of reputation. His on-ice play is a strong vote for first ballot but how he left the NHL may keep him out for a year or two just to make a point.

Zetterberg:
Top-10 point finishes: 6, 8
Top-10 goal finishes: 5
Postseason all-stars: 2
Trophies: Smythe (King Clancy)
Stanley cups: 1
Bonus points: Triple Gold, intangibles
My prediction: borderline HoF. It is really hard to put Z above Alfredsson from HoF perspective so he isn’t likely to make it on first ballot. This means he will be pushed by compilers like Brind’Amour from one side and from new wave two-way forwards Bergeron-Kopitar-Toews from another. His best bet is to jump in before the strong crop of cap era players starts to retire because people like Crosby or Ovechkin may sideline him yet again and then the memory of 2007-08 season will fade.

 

[golffuul]

Would be fitting if both Pavel and Henrik went in together. Hoping that HHOF sees how this would be a great thing.

 

[FMichael]

Bump here...

Seeing Zubov getting in the HoF...Makes me think there's gotta be a spot reserved for Osgood.

 

[Henkka]

Datsyuk should be ahead of this group, thanks to multiple Stanley Cups and individual trophies.

And more of anything, most special player of them all. Probably of his generation.

 

[FMichael]

Datsyuk should be ahead of this group, thanks to multiple Stanley Cups and individual trophies.

He'll get in...No doubt.

 

[Bench]

Bump here...

Seeing Zubov getting in the HoF...Makes me think there's gotta be a spot reserved for Osgood.

Hold up now. Zubov was a far more impactful player than Osgood, overall. And I like Osgood a lot.

 

[FMichael]

Hold up now. Zubov was a far more impactful player than Osgood, overall. And I like Osgood a lot.

Excuse my ignorance, but I recall him being a a really good Dman, but to me he tended to be in the shadow of others (Bourque, Chelios, Stevens, MacInnis, Leetch, Coffey, Lidstrom, etc).

I'm not saying Zubov isn't worthy - just that if you include him - doesn't Osgood (who was also in the shadows of other netminders, but still had a damn fine career) qualify?

I know this conversation can go on, and on...

 

[Kronwalled55]

All 3 absolutely deserve to be in the HoF.

 

[odin1981]

Like just about everyone else has said Days and Z but no one else.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Excuse my ignorance, but I recall him being a a really good Dman, but to me he tended to be in the shadow of others (Bourque, Chelios, Stevens, MacInnis, Leetch, Coffey, Lidstrom, etc).

I'm not saying Zubov isn't worthy - just that if you include him - doesn't Osgood (who was also in the shadows of other netminders, but still had a damn fine career) qualify?

I know this conversation can go on, and on...

I'm saying Zubov isn't worthy.

He was a very good defenseman, but Hall of Fame? This year's class is weak so his admission doesn't stand out as much as it should (I mean, Carbonneau?). I know it's becoming an overused phrase but it really is turning into the Hall of Very Good.

 

[FMichael]

I'm saying Zubov isn't worthy.

He was a very good defenseman, but Hall of Fame? This year's class is weak so his admission doesn't stand out as much as it should (I mean, Carbonneau?). I know it's becoming an overused phrase but it really is turning into the Hall of Very Good.

Good point.

What is the HoF to do? Have a induction ceremony every 2, or 3 years for those that might be deemed worthy?

I don't know the answer to that, but these past handful of years - I'm thinking Osgood should be considered.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Good point.

What is the HoF to do? Have a induction ceremony every 2, or 3 years for those that might be deemed worthy?

I don't know the answer to that, but these past handful of years - I'm thinking Osgood should be considered.

I'm not on top of who's in already and who's still waiting but it seems like there's probably better guys out there still waiting. Alfredsson?

 

[GrGriffins]

Pav & Z will get in the HOF . What these two for did for the Wings only would not get them in, but mostly for what the 2 did in international play that will push these two over the hump.

Osgood might take awhile to get in (if he gets in at all). He is teetering on the fence at the moment.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

The admission to HHOF has gotten too stringent & political, IMHO.
(random example)...i.e. Dman Sylvio Mantha (inducted 1960), 141pts/541gp, Habs 1922-1936 + 4gp as a Bruin in '37. No individual awards, 2 all-star games, 7 yrs as Capt. of Habs (probably why he got in).

Pav & Z absolutely, 1st ballot. Ozzy, eventually (10-20 yrs?)...unfortunately there are too many great players ahead of him on the "waiting list" that should be in, but are not currently in: Roenick, Alfredsson, Turgeon (yeah, so what he didn't fight in '87 WJC?...so he wouldn't get kicked out of the tournament), Verbeek, Larmer, Theo Fleury, Mogilny, Bondra, Tkachuk, Hossa, Cujo.

Edit: add Boris Mikhailov, Doug Wilson, Brind'amour, Elias.

Iginla eligible next year.


~Borderline (Hall of very, very good): KONSTANTINOV.
Damphousse, Bellows, Bobby Smith, Tochhet, Weight, Amonte, Ferraro, Richards, Lecavalier, Broten, Naslund, Gonchar, Sedins (ugghhh)

-Honorable Mention: (good careers, not HHOF worthy, though some could be borderline category)
Muller, Propp, Nicholls, Doan, Kovalev, Sykora, R. Whitney, R. Middleton, Sykora, S.Thomas, . S.Koivu, MacLean, Linden, Ronning, Tanguay, Sandstrom, Guerin, Smyth, G.Suter, Roberts, Nolan, Arnott, Bertuzzi, Linden, Kozlov, Lysiak, Boldirev, Demitra (RIP), T.Steen, LeClair, Richer, Gaborik, among many others etc.

I didn't include any current NHLers & almost no goalies.

Points weigh heavily for me. Cups/lack of Cups, +/-, individual awards, character, longevity, Capt/A.Capt. etc. seem to have skewed some omissions & admissions.

Current example of HHOF bias:
Alexander Mogilny
Eligibility: 12th year
If Paul Kariya (Class of 2017) is in the Hall of Fame, it stands to reason Mogilny should be too. Mogilny played 990 NHL games, one more than Kariya, and had 71 more goals (473-402) and 43 more points (1,032-989). Mogilny won the Stanley Cup with the Devils in 2000 while Kariya never won the Cup. They each won gold medals at the Olympics (Mogilny with the Soviet Union in 1988, Kariya with Canada in 2002), the World Championship (Mogilny 1989, Kariya 1994) and the World Junior Championship (Mogilny 1989, Kariya 1993).

 

[Bench]

I'm saying Zubov isn't worthy.

You're dead to me.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

You're dead to me.

I think he is worth mentioning here. While I am a big Zubov fan, I don't think he is/was some slam dunk case. Glad he is finally getting in, he was a wonderful player. Amazing to think he did that while crushing two packs of heaters a day... I know it was a different time, but man that still amazes me about the guys up through the 90s in terms of heavy smokers. Zubov is one of the last ones I can remember.

 

[FMichael]

I think he is worth mentioning here. While I am a big Zubov fan, I don't think he is/was some slam dunk case. Glad he is finally getting in, he was a wonderful player. Amazing to think he did that while crushing two packs of heaters a day... I know it was a different time, but man that still amazes me about the guys up through the 90s in terms of heavy smokers. Zubov is one of the last ones I can remember.

Was listening to Sirius/XM Radio channel 91 NHL Network...Host Mike Johnson mentioned former teammate while a Leaf (and Red Wing) Danii Markov would have a 'few' cancer sticks in between periods...Also...

 

[GMR]

I think he is worth mentioning here. While I am a big Zubov fan, I don't think he is/was some slam dunk case. Glad he is finally getting in, he was a wonderful player. Amazing to think he did that while crushing two packs of heaters a day... I know it was a different time, but man that still amazes me about the guys up through the 90s in terms of heavy smokers. Zubov is one of the last ones I can remember.

The most amazing thing about Zubov was that he was traded twice in his prime, by both the Rangers and Penguins.

I mean, the Penguins traded him for Kevin Hatcher. What the hell?

The Rangers trade was not much better. They traded him and Nedved (two young players) for Samuelsson and Robitaille.

 

[GMR]

The admission to HHOF has gotten too stringent & political, IMHO.
(random example)...i.e. Dman Sylvio Mantha (inducted 1960), 141pts/541gp, Habs 1922-1936 + 4gp as a Bruin in '37. No individual awards, 2 all-star games, 7 yrs as Capt. of Habs (probably why he got in).

Pav & Z absolutely, 1st ballot. Ozzy, eventually (10-20 yrs?)...unfortunately there are too many great players ahead of him on the "waiting list" that should be in, but are not currently in: Roenick, Alfredsson, Turgeon (yeah, so what he didn't fight in '87 WJC?...so he wouldn't get kicked out of the tournament), Verbeek, Larmer, Theo Fleury, Mogilny, Bondra, Tkachuk, Hossa, Cujo.

Iginla eligible next year.


~Borderline (Hall of very, very good): KONSTANTINOV.
Damphousse, Brind'amour, Bellows, Bobby Smith, Tochhet, Weight, Elias, Amonte, Ferraro, Richards, Lecavalier, Broten, Naslund,
Sedins (ugghhh)

-Honorable Mention: (good careers, not HHOF worthy)
Muller, Propp, Nicholls, Doan, Kovalev, Sykora, R. Whitney, R. Middleton, Sykora, S.Thomas, . S.Koivu, MacLean, Linden, Ronning, Tanguay, Sandstrom, Guerin, Smyth, G.Suter, Roberts, Nolan, Arnott, Bertuzzi, Linden, Kozlov, Lysiak, Boldirev, Demitra (RIP), T.Steen, LeClair, Richer, Gonchar, Gaborik, among many others etc.

I didn't include any current NHLers & almost no goalies.

Points weigh heavily for me. Cups/lack of Cups, +/-, individual awards, character, longevity, Capt/A.Capt. etc. seem to have skewed some omissions & admissions.

What about Mikhailov, Holecek, or Martinec? Those three should have been inducted a long time ago. Until Nedomansky got in, I wondered if the HHOF committee even realized that the Czechs played hockey before Jagr came to the NHL. There wasn't a player you listed that I'd rank above those three players.

 

[GMR]

Bump here...

Seeing Zubov getting in the HoF...Makes me think there's gotta be a spot reserved for Osgood.

No chance. The HHOF has always held goalies to a different standard for induction. Vernon, Cujo, and Barrasso are still not in. It took forever for Vachon to get in. Based on Andreychuk and Housley's inductions, you'd think some of these goalies would already be inducted just because they played a long time and had many wins.

 

[MBH]

Per the Zetterberg retirement topic, I wanted to circle back around to a couple debates on where the highest profile Wings of the salary cap era fall in terms of making it to Toronto.

To make my answer clear, I think Hank and Pav eventually make it in and Osgood stays right on the outskirts of the Hall like he's been all along.

E: changed my vote. None will make it. And no Wings will make it for the next 59 years

Poll is awkward, but it's a good question.
Pavel and Hank make it.
Ozzie makes it maybe once everyone who remembers how ordinary he was is dead and those stats just pop at people.

I personally would raise 13 and 40 to the rafters.
91 too.

 

[MBH]

I think Z and Pav get in and Ozzie gets robbed. He has the numbers but people like to hate on him.

I just think that Hank and Pavel were two of the best in the world during their era.
And Ozzie f***ing wasn't.

It's that simple.