Waived: DLR/Pleks Waived

[Runner77]

In preseason peca looked MUCH better than dlr(peca had 5 points in 4 games I believe) so I doubt anyone would have done it back then. Someone had to go when we were healthy. Now that Byron and Armia are injured, of course dlr would be better than agostino.

It's a dominos thing and holding off from making moves involving a 23 year old as long as possible.

Waiving Pleks wouldn't have been enough since he went on IR and didn't count as a spot against the roster.

Alzner should have been waived.

 

[The Great Weal]

It's a dominos thing and holding off from making moves involving a 23 year old as long as possible.

Waiving Pleks wouldn't have been enough since he went on IR and didn't count as a spot against the roster.

Alzner should have been waived.

Tatar-Danault-Gally
Drouin-Domi-Lehkonen
Byron-Kotkaniemi-Armia
Dlo-Peca-Shaw
Hudon
Scherbak

I wouldn't lose any of those guys to keep DLR.

Alzner is a dman, we already have Schlemko and Weber out so we need a 7th dman.

 

[Runner77]

Tatar-Danault-Gally
Drouin-Domi-Lehkonen
Byron-Kotkaniemi-Armia
Dlo-Peca-Shaw
Hudon
Scherbak

I wouldn't lose any of those guys to keep DLR.

Alzner is a dman, we already have Schlemko and Weber out so we need a 7th dman.

In that case, it's a tough spot to be in. He would have had to trade one of Peca, Shaw, Dlo, Hudon or Scherbak. Would you trade any of them to buy more time with DLR, take a shot at DLR improving his value and then flip him down the line?

 

[The Great Weal]

In that case, it's a tough spot to be in. He would have had to trade one of Peca, Shaw, Dlo, Hudon or Scherbak. Would you trade any of them to buy more time with DLR, take a shot at DLR improving his value and then flip him down the line?

Well that is what Bergevin had to deal with at that time. Peca has shown a lot more than DLR at that time in preseason and 100% deserved to steal DLR's spot. Bergevin paid a lot to get Shaw and refused to trade him last year when there was interest. DLO is literally our only physical player. He's fast and shows heart. I'm sure he looks better once he fully heals from that injury. Hudon scored more last year than DLR has in his entire NHL career. Scherbak is a 1st round pick of the team who dominated the AHL last year and looked solid when he got called up.

DLR was the odd man out, and I'm sure most people would have made the same choice at that time.

 

[Runner77]

Well that is what Bergevin had to deal with at that time. Peca has shown a lot more than DLR at that time in preseason and 100% deserved to steal DLR's spot. Bergevin paid a lot to get Shaw and refused to trade him last year when there was interest. DLO is literally our only physical player. He's fast and shows heart. I'm sure he looks better once he fully heals from that injury. Hudon scored more last year than DLR has in his entire NHL career. Scherbak is a 1st round pick of the team who dominated the AHL last year and looked solid when he got called up.

DLR was the odd man out, and I'm sure most people would have made the same choice at that time.

Looked at it that way, the roster didn't allow for much latitude, I concur.

 

[The Great Weal]

Looked at it that way, the roster didn't allow for much latitude, I concur.

I was just surprised that we couldn't get a pick for him

 

[Habby4Life]

I dunno. Would this mythical player be cuter than DLR? Have more offensive upside while being even in skating and defensive play? Would he be a good team player and never complain about lack of opportunities and development?

The point is, why bring up an unlikely hypothetical except to try to shred (very poorly I might add) posters who have opinions that differ from your own?

Bergevin has made many mistakes, and some of them with incalculably negative effects on the team. When he screws up he gets called on it, just like every other GM on every other team.

My whole point was not about bringing in a mythical player or shred posters. The point was about the DLR waiver transaction itself and how insignificant it is/was. I was pointing out that"IF" MB picked up a similar player like DLR off waivers, he would get roasted and it would be called another Bargain Bin special. Let's face it, when MTL picked Logan Shaw off waivers, MB was roasted for his usual Bargain Bin special, and how terrible a player Shaw was. Ironically, now MB is getting roasted for losing DLR (same type of player as Shaw) on waivers. DLR & Shaw are a dime a dozen players. IMO there is a lack of objectivity with MB moves on this board and the discussion is far too personal.

We agree that MB has made many many mistakes, some serious ones, and he should get called out. I never liked the PK trade, it was not the right direction. I had no problem trading PK but the return should have been for youth and or to acquire a true 1/2 center. MB has been too cautious and not creative enough trying to fix the major problems with this team and I don't believe he should be the GM. However, I do believe there is a major lack of objectivity on these boards that even the smallest/most inconsequential transaction is blown out of proportion. In addition, he is not given enough credit for when a good transaction is made.

 

[Runner77]

I was just surprised that we couldn't get a pick for him

We can fault the GM for a lot of stuff, but even if I'm not one of his fans, I have to assume that he tried to get something for him. Trading bottom players is something MB has a lot of experience at.

I guess the market has spoken. Only a team with so little depth could afford to add him.

 

[The Great Weal]

We can fault the GM for a lot of stuff, but even if I'm not one of his fans, I have to assume that he tried to get something for him. Trading bottom players is something MB has a lot of experience at.

I guess the market has spoken. Only a team with so little depth could afford to add him.

Yeah I'm not going to fault him at all. I'm sure he tried to offer him for a pick but nobody wanted him. I just hope it wasn't something that was rushed because many of use saw a move like this inevitably occurring since July.

 

[jaffy27]

That would be a nice poll to vote on -- who will have the more productive season, Peca or DLR? How would we measure "productive"? Offence only or defensive metrics combined with offence?

DLR has been getting decent ice time lately -- will he be able to continue playing as much?

I say we go strictly offense.....and I’ll make a prediction right now

DLR 13pts

Peca 22pts

 

[Runner77]

I say we go strictly offense.....and I’ll make a prediction right now

DLR 13pts

Peca 22pts

Even more interesting will be how many games played for each of them. I suspect one or both may get to sample hotdogs in the stands at some point.

p.s. I've been trying to get you to post in the Travel thread. What will it take.

I know: AOG, AOG!

 

[TT1]

We shoulda converted DLR to a dman after all, huh?

 

[Runner77]

First of all, you have no idea how I or virtually any other poster would react to any particular deal. So stop with that trash. ...

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Regarding waiving Plekanec: Wouldn't we had have a roster limit issue when Byron and others return?

 

[Lshap]

Regarding waiving Plekanec: Wouldn't we had have a roster limit issue when Byron and others return?

Assuming no one else gets injured, yeah.

Plekanec had the perfect ending, IMO. Traded last year at the deadline for picks, brought back for his 1000th, then waived. He was a great player for many years and deserved to be feted on his milestone game, but -- despite all the predictions here -- didn't get ice time at the expense of our young players this season.

As for de la Rose, I wish him good luck as a fringe NHL player. His tools disappeared once he entered the o-zone. No big loss.

 

[Forum93]

That’s not nice.....guy was good for Montreal for many years. He got old in his field and slowed down, just like all of us will at some point.

Point is he gave us some good honest hockey, let’s show some respect as ladies and gentlemen


Sorry my bad,I respect Mr. Turtleneck for the good years way back when he showed up to play, just couldn't help hide my elation to see him gonzo.

Father Time could be so cruel, adios Mr. Turtleneck and say hi to Jaromir for me.

 

[Tighthead]

In that case, it's a tough spot to be in. He would have had to trade one of Peca, Shaw, Dlo, Hudon or Scherbak. Would you trade any of them to buy more time with DLR, take a shot at DLR improving his value and then flip him down the line?

Not making Shaw untouchable at the 2018 TDL would have alleviated some of the glut.

I’m not saying that Shaw should be sent packing to free up a spot for DLR, but trading him for assets last year would have been a positive move to turn over the roster.

 

[Habs Icing]

And this is what is so frustrating with the defend-management-at-all-times crowd. They tell us that Detroit is desperate because of injuries and that is why they are playing DLR 15-18 minutes per game on the second line. So had we waived Pleks and played DLR a bit, Detroit might have come a callin' once their need was acute and given us a useful asset in exchange for the guy that would fit for them.

Even if you think DLR is only your 23rd best player, you don't lose him for nothing in order to keep a 24th with no value, days from retirement at 35 years old.

It reminds me of the monumental blunder Sam Pollock made in the summer 1969, protecting 41 year old Gump Worsley over 26 year old Tony Esposito, and losing Espo on waivers because of it. Worsley was gone after playing just 6 more games in a Habs uniform.

I think you may be remembering this wrong like most people are remembering the DLR/Pleky wrong.

The Habs had a young up and coming Franco stud goalie in Vachon so the choice wasn't between Worsley and Espo but between Vachon and Espo. Pollock didn't want to go with two young basically inexperienced goalies so he chose Vachon over Espo.

With DLR and Pleky wasn't Pleky on the injury list already when DLR was placed on waivers?

 

[WG]

I think you may be remembering this wrong like most people are remembering the DLR/Pleky wrong.

The Habs had a young up and coming Franco stud goalie in Vachon so the choice wasn't between Worsley and Espo but between Vachon and Espo. Pollock didn't want to go with two young basically inexperienced goalies so he chose Vachon over Espo.

With DLR and Pleky wasn't Pleky on the injury list already when DLR was placed on waivers?

Different era, smaller league, I know. But still, pretty good goaltending depth chart. Tony O, Rogie, Gump, and Dryden in the wings.

 

[Habs Icing]

Different era, smaller league, I know. But still, pretty good goaltending depth chart. Tony O, Rogie, Gump, and Dryden in the wings.

Being of Italian descent I was pretty pissed at the time. Not because he kept Vachon but that he let Espo go. I got over it real quick but I know a lot of friends & family didn't. Many became Bruins and Blackhawks fans. Bruins fans because of the incomparable one: Bobby Orr. Man, did I ever hate that player at the time but looking back he was a god on skates. Achilles on skates. Achilles had his heels. Orr had his knees.

 

[Forum93]

Not sad to see DLR gone also, his tenure here was frustrating as hell to witness. Good luck to him, maybe a change of scenery will help.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I think you may be remembering this wrong like most people are remembering the DLR/Pleky wrong.

The Habs had a young up and coming Franco stud goalie in Vachon so the choice wasn't between Worsley and Espo but between Vachon and Espo. Pollock didn't want to go with two young basically inexperienced goalies so he chose Vachon over Espo.

With DLR and Pleky wasn't Pleky on the injury list already when DLR was placed on waivers?

So wrong.

We protected TWO goalies, Vachon and Worsley.

Historical Hockey Stats & Trivia: 1969 NHL Intra-League Draft

Vachon was not "up and coming" at that point, he had just finished his third season with the team and had just won the Vezina Trophy.

We had two farm teams at the time, and the goalie depth in 68-69 was:

1. Rogatien Vachon (36 games with Habs, injured a few weeks)
2. Gump Worsley (30 games with Habs, injured a few weeks)
3. Ernie Wakely (65 games in AHL Cleveland, 1 game with Habs)
4. Tony Esposito (19 games in CHL Houston, 15 games with Habs)
5. Phil Myre (53 games in CHL Houston)
6. Michel Plasse (7 games with AHL Cleveland)

When Vachon and Worsley both went down at almost the same time, first Wakely was brought up, as he had been the next in line for years, but hardly ever playing in an NHL game. Then the second regular went down, and the Habs did not want to risk the development of Philippe Myre who was a 20 year old first-year pro handling #1 duties in the pros for the first time, so they took a chance and brought up Tony Esposito, a 25 year old who had played college and was in his second pro year. He had an unorthodox style which the team was not sold on, but when he got into his first game he was a sensation, and he went on to play 13 games, cooling off a bit toward the end. Then the minute the regulars were back, he was gone, not to return for the rest of the year.

Pollock said that he protected Worsley out of respect, and Myre and Plasse were safe from poaching because they were first year pros and Myre rated ahead of Esposito, so he felt there was not that much risk anyone would take this older goalie with the weird "butterfly" style.

The "respect" for Worsley lasted 6 more games then he was shipped out early in 1969-70 and Phil Myre brought up for good.

 

[vokiel]

If Plekanec decides to retire, we'll have a ceremony?

 

[Habs Icing]

So wrong.

We protected TWO goalies, Vachon and Worsley.

Historical Hockey Stats & Trivia: 1969 NHL Intra-League Draft

Vachon was not "up and coming" at that point, he had just finished his third season with the team and had just won the Vezina Trophy.

We had two farm teams at the time, and the goalie depth in 68-69 was:

1. Rogatien Vachon (36 games with Habs, injured a few weeks)
2. Gump Worsley (30 games with Habs, injured a few weeks)
3. Ernie Wakely (65 games in AHL Cleveland, 1 game with Habs)
4. Tony Esposito (19 games in CHL Houston, 15 games with Habs)
5. Phil Myre (53 games in CHL Houston)
6. Michel Plasse (7 games with AHL Cleveland)

When Vachon and Worsley both went down at almost the same time, first Wakely was brought up, as he had been the next in line for years, but hardly ever playing in an NHL game. Then the second regular went down, and the Habs did not want to risk the development of Philippe Myre who was a 20 year old first-year pro handling #1 duties in the pros for the first time, so they took a chance and brought up Tony Esposito, a 25 year old who had played college and was in his second pro year. He had an unorthodox style which the team was not sold on, but when he got into his first game he was a sensation, and he went on to play 13 games, cooling off a bit toward the end. Then the minute the regulars were back, he was gone, not to return for the rest of the year.

Pollock said that he protected Worsley out of respect, and Myre and Plasse were safe from poaching because they were first year pros and Myre rated ahead of Esposito, so he felt there was not that much risk anyone would take this older goalie with the weird "butterfly" style.

The "respect" for Worsley lasted 6 more games then he was shipped out early in 1969-70 and Phil Myre brought up for good.

Again, you're projecting today's standards onto 1969. Vachon was only 24 in 69 and had really only played 2 full seasons. Vachon may have won the Vezina but he was also dubbed a Junior B goalie by Punch Imlach.

As you mentioned Espo was 25 and goalies at that time didn't move into the NHL like they do nowadays. 24-25 was the going age. Also look at your at the stats you posted after Worsley Espo had the most games played. It was a choice between Espo and Vachon not Worsley and espo. Worsley was kept because Pollock valued experience more than untapped talent.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Again, you're projecting today's standards onto 1969. Vachon was only 24 in 69 and had really only played 2 full seasons. Vachon may have won the Vezina but he was also dubbed a Junior B goalie by Punch Imlach.

As you mentioned Espo was 25 and goalies at that time didn't move into the NHL like they do nowadays. 24-25 was the going age. Also look at your at the stats you posted after Worsley Espo had the most games played. It was a choice between Espo and Vachon not Worsley and espo. Worsley was kept because Pollock valued experience more than untapped talent.

The Habs protected both Vachon and Worsley. Yet Worsley who was 40, was gone in 6 games, replaced by 21 year old Phil Myre. Pollock admitted he made a mistake, but you want to say he didn't. OK, I'll go with Pollock. They simply thought his style was flawed and they were wrong.

Also, go back and look at the protected lists of 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970. Pollock had no trouble protecting younger players over veterans like Provost, Larose, Duff.

This is just revisionist history.