Dishing the Dirt

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I tried multiple search terms and can't find a full report of the 1929-30 team - the only post-expansion year for which we are missing all-stars.

There was definitely a team though - This article (Vancouver Sun April 5 1930) notes that Hec Kilrea "was the choice for left wing on the official all-star team picked by the experts of the N.H.L.": 5 Apr 1930, 10 - The Vancouver Sun at Newspapers.com . The article focuses on Kilrea and King Clancy.

Here's another article on Clancy: (Edmonton Journal Feb 21 1930): 21 Feb 1930, 9 - Edmonton Journal at Newspapers.com. The article is about how Clancy is "considered by many to be better than Shore."

Here's an article describing the 1929-30 Chicago Blackhawks (Calgary Herald March 11 1930): 11 Mar 1930, 7 - Calgary Herald at Newspapers.com. "Only one of Chicago's players is rated as an outstanding star, but most of them are speedy as well as husky." Chuck Gardiner, their acrobatic little goalie, has been giving Roy Worters a hard struggle for the year's goal-tending honors and is the principal reason why the Black Hawks have held second or third place while barely outscoring their opponents. ... Chicago has no fixed combinations of forwards or defence-men, and several can play either the front or back line positions..."

So that's a 2nd Team (1928-29) and 1st Team (1929-30) All-Star nod for Hec Kilrea in back-to-back seasons. I don't know about others, but that ups my esteem for him by a fair amount.

Interesting that the article calls the GM-voted team "official" for 1929-30.

Pretty clear that Shore and Clancy were still considered the best dmen in 1929-30. This is the best evidence we have in the absence of actual all-star voting in our records for that year.

The article calling Worters and Gardiner the best goalies in 1929-30 is backed up by Gardiner leading all goalies in Hart voting that year (We only have top 7 in Hart voting and Gardiner was the only goalie up there).

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

I found the missing GM-voted All-Star team for 1928-29!


22 Mar 1929, 11 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Note that Worters did, in fact, go on to win the Hart Trophy.

To organize the data in a easier fashion:

Goal:

1. Roy Worters 7
2. George Hainsworth 2
3. Tiny Thompson 1
Note: All votes accounted for.

Defense:

1. King Clancy 8
2. Eddie Shore 7
3. Sylvio Mantha 5
4. Lionel Conacher 1
Note: These should add up to 20, but there is an extra vote

Left Wing:

1. Aurel Joliet 5
2. George Hay 2
3. Hec Kilrea 2
Note: There is 1 missing vote

Center:

1. Howie Morenz 5
2. Frank Boucher 1
3. Nels Stewart 1
Note: There are 3 missing votes

Right Wing:

1. Ace Bailey 5
2. Bill Cook 3
3. Harry Oliver 1
4. Jimmy Ward 1
Note: All votes accounted for.

If anyone has access to the Globe and Mail archives, you could check the March 21, 1929 edition to see if it also contains these small discrepancies.

Globe and Mail, or more precisely, The Globe as it was called back in 1929.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Yes, more newspapers, better search engine. You get a free 7 day trial. Then if you don't cancel, they charge $75 for the next 6 months. So I'm trying to get as much use as I can in the next week...

You can just take it for one month too. Told you guys newspapers.com was a goldmine !

Good job finding the AST. Seems I missed it by just 2 years when I did my Ottawa dynasty research (stopped at 1927).

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Globe and Mail, or more precisely, The Globe as it was called back in 1929.

Thanks. So the Ottawa Citizen just ran the article that had appeared in the Globe and Mail the day before.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

If anyone has any requests for anything, just send me a message. I've got access to my university's databases for life I hope.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

If anyone has any requests for anything, just send me a message. I've got access to my university's databases for life I hope.

If you can find the missing 1929-30 GM All-Star team, that would be fantastic. It likely was posted in March or early April 1930. And I found that Hec Kilrea was the All-Star LW, so maybe using Kilrea as a search term would help?

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

If you can find the missing 1929-30 GM All-Star team, that would be fantastic. It likely was posted in March or early April 1930. And I found that Hec Kilrea was the All-Star LW, so maybe using Kilrea as a search term would help?

I'm using the Globe, and I couldn't find anything. I expanded to the end of May, and also used keywords such as "all star team", "Hart", "Stewart", "Weiland", "voting". Got any other ideas?

 

[overpass]

I'm using the Globe, and I couldn't find anything. I expanded to the end of May, and also used keywords such as "all star team", "Hart", "Stewart", "Weiland", "voting". Got any other ideas?

I tried searching day by day for every hockey article and found nothing about all star teams.

The Globe and Mail of that era is not great for pro hockey. They gave way more coverage to amateur hockey. I get the feeling that they still looked down on pro hockey even then...typical Globe and Toronto snobby attitude.

 

[Habsfan18]

Signed up for a free trial of newspapers.com and I’m really impressed so far. I take it the database is constantly expanding? The Montreal Gazette, Ottawa Citizen, Windsor Star, Calgary Herald, Edmonton Journal, Vancouver Sun, Vancouver Province. All great for historical research. Pretty cool to also see essentially complete runs of the Chicago Tribune, Boston Globe, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Philadelphia Inquirer, Los Angeles Times, New York Daily News, The Record (New Jersey), Minnesota Star Tribune, San Fransisco Examiner, Detroit Free Press, St. Louis Post-Dispatch etc..Even if it’s to read 70’s-90’s stuff, still pretty neat.

Seems to be a goldmine for historical researchers. It’s a shame that there are no big Toronto papers though. Would be nice to have the Toronto Sun and/or Toronto Star. Those would add a crap ton of great research material I would assume.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Yeah, I've often found Toronto players from pre 06 era are hard to pinpoint. The best case in researching them, I've found, is when they play one of the numerous Montreal teams given the Montreal Gazette is generally well documented and full of in depth reports. I was happy to see the Ottawa Citizen produce some really good information on the Pete Green Senators from 1909 through 1913. The Citizen is much like the Montreal Gazette. Very useful in research.

I'll have to give the newspapers.com a shot as this many years later, there isn't a lot of information I haven't tried to find already with the free content available haha.

 

[overpass]

Signed up for a free trial of newspapers.com and I’m really impressed so far. I take it the database is constantly expanding? The Montreal Gazette, Ottawa Citizen, Windsor Star, Calgary Herald, Edmonton Journal, Vancouver Sun, Vancouver Province. All great for historical research. Pretty cool to also see essentially complete runs of the Chicago Tribune, Boston Globe, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Philadelphia Inquirer, Los Angeles Times, New York Daily News, The Record (New Jersey), Minnesota Star Tribune, San Fransisco Examiner, Detroit Free Press, St. Louis Post-Dispatch etc..Even if it’s to read 70’s-90’s stuff, still pretty neat.

Seems to be a goldmine for historical researchers. It’s a shame that there are no big Toronto papers though. Would be nice to have the Toronto Sun and/or Toronto Star. Those would add a crap ton of great research material I would assume.

One great thing about Newspapers.com is you can clip any article that you want to save and add it to your clippings. Then you can still view it even if your subscription is no longer active, and you can also post a link for anyone to view it.

 

[Habsfan18]

This may be well known, but apparently Cyclone Taylor was rumored to be returning to Ottawa in December of 1910. I remember reading that after playing with Renfrew, Cyclone only had interest in remaining in the NHA if it were with Ottawa, but I didn’t know a deal was talked about almost as a sure thing at that time.

 

[Habsfan18]

Here was an article announcing his arrival to the PCHA. Obviously nothing new, but still neat to read.

 

[ImporterExporter]

17 Feb 1905, 12 - The Gazette at Newspapers.com

You can add an All Star selection in 1905 for Blair Russell. This time at LW! I do not see this mentioned in either bio and Wiki only has him credited with an AS team in 1907 so this is a nice find for his resume.

He played every position along the forward line over his career. This AS selection was made by The Toronto News so shouldn't be any biases for Montreal players.

He was one of the games best defensive forwards of his era. Detailed description of his defensive prowess. Have more info on this as well. Possessed elite endurance.

Harvey Pulford noted as being a poor skater and being his only weakness.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Hamby Shore was chosen for the 1912 All Stars to face off against the West Coast counterparts.

14 Mar 1912, 9 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

 

[ImporterExporter]

In, 1917, Hamby Shore, at age 30 (2nd to last year before retiring), is said to be playing like the most valuable man in the league. On a team with Nighbor, Boucher, Gerard, etc.

Guy is one of the most underrated players of all time.

22 Jan 1917, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

 

[ImporterExporter]

More glowing remarks for Hamby Shore directly made after his untimely passing in 1918.


15 Oct 1918, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

From the same paper.

Shore was the key member in stopping the famed Renfrew team with studs like Lalonde, the Patrick brothers, etc, in 1910.

Recalling in 1911 he was the best all around defensemen in the league. Noted his phenomenal speed and great stick handling.

From page 10 of the same paper: Shore was incredibly respected apparently.

Noted bowler and footballer as well.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Shore was a big enough star to have a memorial hockey match in his honor.

10 Mar 1919, 9 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

 

[ImporterExporter]

How is Pete Green called a former coach in 1908? Hmmmm. Did he have coaching duties during the Silver Seven???

18 Jan 1908, 16 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

26 Jan 1910, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

 

[ImporterExporter]

Pete Green's coached Silver Seven.

Noted strategist and tactician.

22 Sep 1934, 9 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Day calls Brimsek the greatest goalie ever, and lists his 1941-42 All-Star Team (around the 35 games mark)

 

[ImporterExporter]

VERY COOL interview with an 83 year old Cyclone Taylor who credits Pete Green with being the one who switched him to defensemen upon his arrival in Ottawa. Also a lot of other neat tidbits.

26 Apr 1968, Page 25 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

 

[ImporterExporter]

2 Apr 1920, Page 14 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

 

[VanIslander]

Then why did you let him drop until 18 other coaches were drafted before selecting him in the 2020 All-Time Draft?

We are voting soon, and you are pimping him now, which is natural.

I'd take your top-5 bid more seriously if you'd have pitched it before or after the ATD voting consideration period.

Everybody thinks their picks are underrated. That's the nature of the beast.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Then why did you let him drop until 18 other coaches were drafted before selecting him in the 2020 All-Time Draft?

We are voting soon, and you are pimping him now, which is natural.

I'd take your top-5 bid more seriously if you'd have pitched it before or after the ATD voting consideration period.

Everybody thinks their picks are underrated. That's the nature of the beast.

Uh, because it's a draft based on value. If you're taking a lot of people where you think they deserve to be selected you're not going to get great value.