Dion Phaneuf - "There is a Trade Market for Him" (Dreger)

[hotpaws]

Phaneuf: 11P, +10
Suter: 11P, +12
Weber: 14P, +14

The talent gap is waaaaaay shorter than what most people seem to think around here.
"WHOA WHOA WHOA, let's not put Dion in the same sentence as Shea Weber". GMAFB. Weber's been greenlighted by Laviolette to attack and pinch with wild abandon, which probably explains all of the 3 extra points this season.

Suter 29:12
Weber 26:55
Phanuef 23:11

The gap is much bigger than some people like to think it is , not to mention the fact Weber/Suter play in a much tougher conference .

 

[Mess]

Suter 29:12
Weber 26:55
Phanuef 23:11

The gap is much bigger than some people like to think it is , not to mention the fact Weber/Suter play in a much tougher conference .

2014 Norris Trophy voting - Best Defenseman

Pts. 1st-2nd-3rd-4th-5th
1. Duncan Keith, CHI 1033 (68-35-17-7-2)
2. Zdeno Chara, BOS 667 (21-39-22-19-17)
3. Shea Weber, NSH 638 (26-23-29-19-15)
4. Ryan Suter, MIN 351 (9-12-20-22-11)
5. Alex Pietrangelo, STL 304 (3-13-18-25-18)
6. Drew Doughty, LA 284 (8-6-17-18-23)
7. Erik Karlsson, OTT 70 (0-5-3-4-8)
8. Ryan McDonagh, NYR 53 (0-1-4-5-11)
9. Victor Hedman, TB 42 (1-1-0-5-10)
10. Mark Giodano, CGY 36 (1-0-2-3-7)
11. Matt Niskanen, PIT 36 (0-1-2-5-4)
12. Marc-Edouard Vlasic, SJ 21 (0-1-0-3-5)
13. Niklas Kronwall, DET 10 (0-0-1-1-2)
14. O. Ekman-Larsson, PHX 6 (0-0-1-0-1)
PK Subban, MTL 6 (0-0-1-0-1)
16. Andrei Markov, MTL 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
17. Jay Bouwmeester, STL 1 (0-0-0-0-1)

Summary

Weber 638 (3rd overall), Suter 321 points (4th overall), Phaneuf 0 points.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

2014 Norris Trophy voting - Best Defenseman

Pts. 1st-2nd-3rd-4th-5th
1. Duncan Keith, CHI 1033 (68-35-17-7-2)
2. Zdeno Chara, BOS 667 (21-39-22-19-17)
3. Shea Weber, NSH 638 (26-23-29-19-15)
4. Ryan Suter, MIN 351 (9-12-20-22-11)
5. Alex Pietrangelo, STL 304 (3-13-18-25-18)
6. Drew Doughty, LA 284 (8-6-17-18-23)
7. Erik Karlsson, OTT 70 (0-5-3-4-8)
8. Ryan McDonagh, NYR 53 (0-1-4-5-11)
9. Victor Hedman, TB 42 (1-1-0-5-10)
10. Mark Giodano, CGY 36 (1-0-2-3-7)
11. Matt Niskanen, PIT 36 (0-1-2-5-4)
12. Marc-Edouard Vlasic, SJ 21 (0-1-0-3-5)
13. Niklas Kronwall, DET 10 (0-0-1-1-2)
14. O. Ekman-Larsson, PHX 6 (0-0-1-0-1)
PK Subban, MTL 6 (0-0-1-0-1)
16. Andrei Markov, MTL 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
17. Jay Bouwmeester, STL 1 (0-0-0-0-1)

Summary

Weber 638 (3rd overall), Suter 321 points (4th overall), Phaneuf 0 points.

Cmon Mess..we all know there is a league wide conspiracy against the Leafs and their players. Phaneuf is just like Weber/Suter and Doughty.

 

[Mess]

Cmon Mess..we all know there is a league wide conspiracy against the Leafs and their players. Phaneuf is just like Weber/Suter and Doughty.

The only place where you will find Phaneuf on the same list as Weber, Suter and Doughty is on highest paid\cap NHL salaries among Dmen.

 

[ACC1224]

Reading comprehension is becoming a lost art.

Rational Post
"Phaunef is a step below Weber"

Realist translation
"Phanuef = Weber/Doughty/etc"

 

[diceman934]

2014 Norris Trophy voting - Best Defenseman

Pts. 1st-2nd-3rd-4th-5th
1. Duncan Keith, CHI 1033 (68-35-17-7-2)
2. Zdeno Chara, BOS 667 (21-39-22-19-17)
3. Shea Weber, NSH 638 (26-23-29-19-15)
4. Ryan Suter, MIN 351 (9-12-20-22-11)
5. Alex Pietrangelo, STL 304 (3-13-18-25-18)
6. Drew Doughty, LA 284 (8-6-17-18-23)
7. Erik Karlsson, OTT 70 (0-5-3-4-8)
8. Ryan McDonagh, NYR 53 (0-1-4-5-11)
9. Victor Hedman, TB 42 (1-1-0-5-10)
10. Mark Giodano, CGY 36 (1-0-2-3-7)
11. Matt Niskanen, PIT 36 (0-1-2-5-4)
12. Marc-Edouard Vlasic, SJ 21 (0-1-0-3-5)
13. Niklas Kronwall, DET 10 (0-0-1-1-2)
14. O. Ekman-Larsson, PHX 6 (0-0-1-0-1)
PK Subban, MTL 6 (0-0-1-0-1)
16. Andrei Markov, MTL 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
17. Jay Bouwmeester, STL 1 (0-0-0-0-1)

Summary

Weber 638 (3rd overall), Suter 321 points (4th overall), Phaneuf 0 points.

But, But ,But, he is good look at his plus/minus that is relevant now when it is a plus and not when it is a minus.

 

[Mess]

Phaneuf played his best hockey when a member of the Flames and was cheaper and more productive statistically.

At that point 5 years ago he was worth Stajan, Hagman and Ian White.

Now his points have gone down and his contract gone up and he is 5 years older so his value in trade has gone down accordingly to reflect that.

So if he were traded it will be interesting to see what the return would be now, and if the Leafs would need to retain salary to move him. I believe its more likely the Leafs will retain him simply because they would feel his value to the Leafs would be greater than the return in trade he would return.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Reading comprehension is becoming a lost art.

Rational Post
"Phaunef is a step below Weber"

Realist translation
"Phanuef = Weber/Doughty/etc"

whats "rational" about saying he is a step below anybody? Is this an official measuring unit? A step?

Stop comparing Phaneuf to the best defencemen in the world and maybe the "realists" would not pi$$ you off as much. How about comparing Phaneuf to the Garrisons, Widemans and Josis of the world. Its probably more "rational" and "realistic"

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

Phaneuf played his best hockey when a member of the Flames and was cheaper and more productive statistically.

At that point 5 years ago he was worth Stajan, Hagman and Ian White.

Now his points have gone down and his contract gone up and he is 5 years older so his value in trade has gone down accordingly to reflect that.

So if he were traded it will be interesting to see what the return would be now, and if the Leafs would need to retain salary to move him. I believe its more likely the Leafs will retain him simply because they would feel his value to the Leafs would be greater than the return in trade he would return.

He was, if you ignore the fact that the cap has gone up significantly. In 2008-2009, the first year of his deal with Calgary, his cap hit of 6.5 represented 11.46% of the 56.7 million salary cap.

In 2014-2014, his cap hit of 7.0 represents 10.14% of the 69 million salary cap.

So in reality, Dion's contract has not kept up with the inflation of the salary cap. His 500,000 raise did not cover this inflation. So he is actually paid like a worse player.

 

[hotpaws]

He was, if you ignore the fact that the cap has gone up significantly. In 2008-2009, the first year of his deal with Calgary, his cap hit of 6.5 represented 11.46% of the 56.7 million salary cap.

In 2014-2014, his cap hit of 7.0 represents 10.14% of the 69 million salary cap.

So in reality, Dion's contract has not kept up with the inflation of the salary cap. His 500,000 raise did not cover this inflation. So he is actually paid like a worse player.

When Dion signed his previous contract he was playing much better and was expected to maintain and improve on his play . Years have past and he's never developed into the type player he was thought to be and the reason he was signed to that previous deal so why do you feel he should be paid among the highest cap hits among his position never mind have a pay increase that kept up with inflation ?

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

When Dion signed his previous contract he was playing much better and was expected to maintain and improve on his play . Years have past and he's never developed into the type player he was thought to be and the reason he was signed to that previous deal so why do you feel he should be paid among the highest cap hits among his position never mind have a pay increase that kept up with inflation ?

First, find where I said this.

Then maybe I'll give you answer.

 

[Gary Nylund]

When Dion signed his previous contract he was playing much better and was expected to maintain and improve on his play . Years have past and he's never developed into the type player he was thought to be and the reason he was signed to that previous deal so why do you feel he should be paid among the highest cap hits among his position never mind have a pay increase that kept up with inflation ?

When the contract signed, Dion was playing amazing. He was also approaching UFA status - just look at what other UFA's got paid to see the effect of that. Considering that, 7 million seems about right. It was either pay him, trade him, or let him walk for nothing. We don't know if or how hard they tried to trade him or what they were offered for him so without knowing that, you can't really criticize them either. Unless of course you would rather have lost Dion for nothing.

 

[The Podium]

Phaneuf played his best hockey when a member of the Flames and was cheaper and more productive statistically.

At that point 5 years ago he was worth Stajan, Hagman and Ian White.

Now his points have gone down and his contract gone up and he is 5 years older so his value in trade has gone down accordingly to reflect that.

So if he were traded it will be interesting to see what the return would be now, and if the Leafs would need to retain salary to move him. I believe its more likely the Leafs will retain him simply because they would feel his value to the Leafs would be greater than the return in trade he would return.

Your spin on things never ceases to amaze me. He was worth Stajan, Hagman and Ian White? I guess thats why some GMs were outraged that Sutter didnt announce his availability around the league.

 

[hotpaws]

First, find where I said this.

Then maybe I'll give you answer.

so what was the point of your previous post ?

 

[headwire]

He was, if you ignore the fact that the cap has gone up significantly. In 2008-2009, the first year of his deal with Calgary, his cap hit of 6.5 represented 11.46% of the 56.7 million salary cap.

In 2014-2014, his cap hit of 7.0 represents 10.14% of the 69 million salary cap.

So in reality, Dion's contract has not kept up with the inflation of the salary cap. His 500,000 raise did not cover this inflation. So he is actually paid like a worse player.

If you adjust $6,500,000 for inflation, Phaneuf has actually taken a pay cut.

100 2008 dollars is 109.96 2014 dollars. $6,500,000, adjusted for inflation, is $7,147,400. A small pay cut, but a cut nonetheless.

I'm just pointing this out. I can't figure Phaneuf out. Some games he looks okay, other games he looks like crap.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Your spin on things never ceases to amaze me. He was worth Stajan, Hagman and Ian White? I guess thats why some GMs were outraged that Sutter didnt announce his availability around the league.

I have heard that story about the outraged GM´s several times but I dont know where the story originates from. Do you know the source?

 

[hotpaws]

When the contract signed, Dion was playing amazing. He was also approaching UFA status - just look at what other UFA's got paid to see the effect of that. Considering that, 7 million seems about right. It was either pay him, trade him, or let him walk for nothing. We don't know if or how hard they tried to trade him or what they were offered for him so without knowing that, you can't really criticize them either. Unless of course you would rather have lost Dion for nothing.

He wasn't playing amazingly , he was playing very well defensively with limited offensive production . That doesn't warrant a 7x7 contract and just because another team may have offered him the same if not more as a ufa doesn't mean we should have as well . We should dealt him when he was playing well .

 

[The Podium]

I have heard that story about the outraged GM´s several times but I dont know where the story originates from. Do you know the source?

Amongst those critical of the deal are a number of GMs around the league who were unaware Phaneuf was available and wished they'd been given a chance to offer up more than the Leafs did.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Calgary/2010/02/08/12788506-qmi.html

 

[Gary Nylund]

He wasn't playing amazingly , he was playing very well defensively with limited offensive production . That doesn't warrant a 7x7 contract and just because another team may have offered him the same if not more as a ufa doesn't mean we should have as well . We should dealt him when he was playing well .

Again, that's easy to say but you have no idea what they would have gotten in return.

 

[hotpaws]

Again, that's easy to say but you have no idea what they would have gotten in return.

so on one hand you're saying he was playing amazingly but then go on to say we don't know if we would have gotten anything worthwhile in a deal

well if DP was playing as great and is a legit num 1 like some are saying doesn't it also mean we should have gotten substantial offers ?

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

so what was the point of your previous post ?

?? To provide some context maybe?

What is the point of any post here?

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Calgary/2010/02/08/12788506-qmi.html

Thanks.


Yeah the return seem a bit on the low end considering Dion even do he struggled as a Flame had both the recent past and age on his side, then again also a big cap hit. Sutter does not strike me as fool either so the trade was strange indeed.

Edit: It becomes even stranger when this article and interview with Sutter say he had a lot of calls on Dion but that he did not want to trade him. Hmmm. Well it is all history now but I wonder what happened.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/blog/_/name/...ary-flames-gm-denies-dion-phaneuf-trade-block

 

[Gary Nylund]

so on one hand you're saying he was playing amazingly but then go on to say we don't know if we would have gotten anything worthwhile in a deal

well if DP was playing as great and is a legit num 1 like some are saying doesn't it also mean we should have gotten substantial offers ?

I'm not sure what he would have been worth as a rental. You're the one who says we should have traded him, what do you think we could have got for him?

 

[Hunter74]

Thanks.


Yeah the return seem a bit on the low end considering Dion even do he struggled as a Flame had both the recent past and age on his side, then again also a big cap hit. Sutter does not strike me as fool either so the trade was strange indeed.

Sutter did go on to make a number of puzzling trades before he was let go. Maybe in the end being a smart hockey guy does not necessitate a good GM?

 

[hotpaws]

Thanks.


Yeah the return seem a bit on the low end considering Dion even do he struggled as a Flame had both the recent past and age on his side, then again also a big cap hit. Sutter does not strike me as fool either so the trade was strange indeed.

Sutter didn't want to rebuild and so he wasn't looking for a pkg of youth/prospects and picks . He got what he thought was a solid return in roster players to help keep him competitive but taking roster pieces from bottom end teams usually doesn't end well .