Dion Phaneuf - "There is a Trade Market for Him" (Dreger)

[The Apologist]

This threads gotten about as polarized as it can get. I mean I would say Phaneuf is closer to Weber than he is to being the worst skater in Leaf history or WE.

Cliff notes: Nothing ITT is to be taken seriously as of a long time ago.

I actually think since certain posters have left it's been a fairly good discussion.

As for the Phaneuf/ Weber thing, a someone who watches both significantly, I can tell you the difference is not as pronounced as some on here would have you believe.
They are very similar in style, and I stand by my firm belief that Weber in Toronto would get Phaneuf level hate in record time.

 

[Stephen]

I actually think since certain posters have left it's been a fairly good discussion.

As for the Phaneuf/ Weber thing, a someone who watches both significantly, I can tell you the difference is not as pronounced as some on here would have you believe.
They are very similar in style, and I stand by my firm belief that Weber in Toronto would get Phaneuf level hate in record time.

The hockey world used to debate the Phaneuf vs Weber all the time. Then the last six years happened and they don't bother with that comparison anymore.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

The hockey world used to debate the Phaneuf vs Weber all the time. Then the last six years happened and they don't bother with that comparison anymore.

Nobody in the hockey world compares Phaneuf to Weber other than on Leaf forums. I mostly hear Weber vs. Doughty vs Keith comparisons. Probably because they are regarded as three of the best defencemen in the world.

 

[The Apologist]

The hockey world used to debate the Phaneuf vs Weber all the time. Then the last six years happened and they don't bother with that comparison anymore.

They didn't have to. The Toronto market made sure to destroy Phaneuf for them.

How often do you watch Weber play? How often do you see the details of his play dissected?

 

[Bomber0104]

The hockey world used to debate the Phaneuf vs Weber all the time. Then the last six years happened and they don't bother with that comparison anymore.

The hockey world is wrong.

The Apologist has proved them wrong because the Predators are his second favorite team.

 

[The Apologist]

The hockey world is wrong.

The Apologist has proved them wrong because the Predators are his second favorite team.

The hockey world is never wrong

 

[Pyromaniac3]

Beastly game tonight.

 

[Dreakmur]

Beastly game tonight.

Best defensive game I have seem him play actually.

 

[The Apologist]

Best defensive game I have seem him play actually.

Tend to agree, let's hope to see a few more of these.
Guy frustrates me so much

 

[Audi*]

Nobody in the hockey world compares Phaneuf to Weber other than on Leaf forums. I mostly hear Weber vs. Doughty vs Keith comparisons. Probably because they are regarded as three of the best defencemen in the world.

Suter

But yeah phaneuf is nowhere near the level of those 4

 

[pooleboy]

Phaneuf always has a good game against crosby because he knows just to be physical all the time.

Imo phaneuf would be a top Dman in the league if he was on any other team, toronto media and giving him the damn C is what makes it bad. Plus pretty sure he chirps non stop so people just dislike him. I don't mind phaneuf, he does need a partner but imo when your playing a big strong team he shies away rather than pushing back which is my problem with him, against the softer teams such as pits ull see him have a good game

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Dion always saves his best games against Crosby and Ovie. Always plays them tough.

 

[The Apologist]

Dion always saves his best games against Crosby and Ovie. Always plays them tough.

Be nice to see him do it night in and night out, but I guess no player is Always on.

I sometimes wonder if the many times I find myself scratching my head watching him would be any different if, as I said previously, our forwards (top 6 in particular) had a gps to show them where the defensive zone is, and if we didn't see the 9 or more replays of said mistake on every highlight show every single morning, sometimes days after it happened.

 

[zeke]

Leaf fans know nothing about defensemen.

nothing.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Leaf fans know nothing about defensemen.

nothing.

Are you a Leaf fan? Just curious.

 

[Raging Bull]

I'd rather trade Gardiner in a deal like the Del Zotto/Klein one that move Dion at this point.

Dion/Franson
Rielly/Polak
Robidas/????

 

[William Hylander]

Are you a Leaf fan? Just curious.

That conclusion Zeke is coming up with, look at some of the defenseman we ran out of town.

Murphy, McCabe, Beachimen. Soon to be Phaneuf.

And look at the only one who we loved through thick and thin, for god knows what reason.

Kaberle (who was ran out of a great defensive team in Boston, and shortly after Carolina and Montreal)

We decide one player is at fault for everything in our organization, and then we run that player out of town and oops, he was actually a good player, or in Robinsons case a hall of famer. Emotional judgement that leads to fan concensus will do that to you.
It's ridiculous, and it pisses me off when our best defenseman is at fault for everything, when he is obviously doing the job he was supposed to be doing and more.

 

[Al14]

That conclusion Zeke is coming up with, look at some of the defenseman we ran out of town.

Robinson, McCabe, Beachimen. Soon to be Phaneuf.

And look at the only one who we loved through thick and thin, for god knows what reason.

Kaberle (who was ran out of a great defensive team in Boston, and shortly after Carolina and Montreal)

We decide one player is at fault for everything in our organization, and then we run that player out of town and oops, he was actually a good player, or in Robinsons case a hall of famer. Emotional judgement that leads to fan concensus will do that to you.
It's ridiculous, and it pisses me off when our best defenseman is at fault for everything, when he is obviously doing the job he was supposed to be doing and more.

Who is this Robinson we supposedly ran out of town? Just curious.

 

[New Liskeard]

That conclusion Zeke is coming up with, look at some of the defenseman we ran out of town.

Robinson, McCabe, Beachimen. Soon to be Phaneuf.

And look at the only one who we loved through thick and thin, for god knows what reason.

Kaberle (who was ran out of a great defensive team in Boston, and shortly after Carolina and Montreal)

We decide one player is at fault for everything in our organization, and then we run that player out of town and oops, he was actually a good player, or in Robinsons case a hall of famer. Emotional judgement that leads to fan concensus will do that to you.
It's ridiculous, and it pisses me off when our best defenseman is at fault for everything, when he is obviously doing the job he was supposed to be doing and more.

Who is Robinson? Larry Murphy?

 

[William Hylander]

Who is Robinson? Larry Murphy?

Got my HOF d men mixed up. Too young to remember all the names.

 

[Nithoniniel]

That conclusion Zeke is coming up with, look at some of the defenseman we ran out of town.

Robinson, McCabe, Beachimen. Soon to be Phaneuf.

And look at the only one who we loved through thick and thin, for god knows what reason.

Kaberle (who was ran out of a great defensive team in Boston, and shortly after Carolina and Montreal)

We decide one player is at fault for everything in our organization, and then we run that player out of town and oops, he was actually a good player, or in Robinsons case a hall of famer. Emotional judgement that leads to fan concensus will do that to you.
It's ridiculous, and it pisses me off when our best defenseman is at fault for everything, when he is obviously doing the job he was supposed to be doing and more.

Kaberle was ran out of town in Boston, Carolina and Montreal because he was pretty much done at that point, not because he was worse than we made him out to be here in Toronto.

As for the rest of the point, my feeling is that a lot of fans tend to find favorites and scapegoats, and then they watch what these players do from that biased viewpoint. And pretty much nothing makes people post as quickly as when they can call out one of their scapegoats. It becomes hype and anti-hype pretty quickly after that.

 

[silentbob37*]

I actually think since certain posters have left it's been a fairly good discussion.

As for the Phaneuf/ Weber thing, a someone who watches both significantly, I can tell you the difference is not as pronounced as some on here would have you believe.
They are very similar in style, and I stand by my firm belief that Weber in Toronto would get Phaneuf level hate in record time.

Not much difference, except one is an elite level talent while one would be better suited to a supporting/secondary role.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I don't really like labeling players all that much, but when I do I usually break it down like this:

#1 D-man (Able to carry a pairing that plays big minutes effectively)
#2 D-man (Able to carry a second pairing, can play top pairing effectively)
Top pairing D-man (Can play on a top pairing effectively)
Top four D-man (Can play on a second pairing effectively, pinch in on a top pairing)
Sheltered D-man (Can be effective in sheltered role, pinch in on a second pairing)
Depth D-man (Can be used on a botttom pairing)

This is not an exact order. #2 D-men tend to be more able to utilize easier minutes than top pairing, but isn't necessarily better.

I'd say Phaneuf is a top pairing guy. You play him the big minutes, but he'd be most effective with a quality guy next to him. Weber is a #1 guy, he could play with pretty much anyone and be effective. Shattenkirk is an example of a #2 guy, on a second pairing he is awesome but he could also be a perfect partner with Phaneuf for example.

 

[diceman934]

People on here comparing Dion to Weber it is this type of thought process that is the issue. That is exactly what Wilson and Burke presented when they anointed Dion as captain. He is not nor has he ever been a Elite D man....and that is the issue with Dion.

He had a very good game last night....it is his body of work and the pay he is receiving that makes him the target he is along with the Fan base on here that keep propping him out to be much better then he is. He is not Norris worthy, nor a top D man, nor a #1 Dman and most certainly not comparable to Weber. Yet he is paid like he is an elite D man.

 

[GoonieFace]

These are the same arguments year in year out. Phaneuf looks good from time to time but is so inconsistent. Lets just wait till game 50-60 and see if he caves in like years prior. He is not in or will ever be in the same class as a Weber, its a silly comparison.