Mattavarner
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- Apr 17, 2014
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Dion Phaneuf - "There is a Trade Market for Him" (Dreger)
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Nithoniniel
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The Phaneuf from Calgary was hyped due to his physicality and goal scoring prowess. He's become a much more well-rounded player since.
I think Dion had a rough start, but since then he's been fine. Can still be better though, his even strength production so far is zero. He and Franson are still the only D-men on the team who is a positive at even strength.
I think Dion had a rough start, but since then he's been fine. Can still be better though, his even strength production so far is zero. He and Franson are still the only D-men on the team who is a positive at even strength.
The fact you even blame that goal on Phaneuf shows how little you were paying attention. Which makes your claim of being a Dion defender all the more dubious when you blatantly ignore what's right in front of you.
I would like to see more production from him at even strength though, like Nithoniniel said. But when the offence runs through the likes of Kessel, JVR, Bozak, and Kadri, sometimes that leaves fewer opportunities for the defence.
Mattavarner
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Raging Bull
Present
Nithoniniel
Registered User
Phaneuf takes the first man who is whacking away at the rebound. That's what he is supposed to do in that situation. He can't control a rebound bouncing right out to Stone there, the only way he could is if he neglected the more immediate threat.
This wouldn't even be true if by league you mean his d-pairing.
BonMorrison
Registered User
Phaneuf hasn't been as bad as people make him out to be. He had a pretty awful start yes, but he's had a nice recovery the past five or six games.
Mattavarner
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https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/video/mark-stone-goal-james-reimer-003536226.html
First legwand wins the race to the corner and muscles him off the puck
then he allows legwand to get between him and reimer untouched and wide open before the Karlsson shot, giving him the opportunity bang at a rebound before Phaneuf can even get there
Then both Phaneuf and Polak go after legwand, allowing stone to pick it up and have an empty net.
Thats what I see when watching the video, sorry if you see it differently
Edit: Ill admit that Polak also had some fault on the goal, as he should have picked up that Phaneuf was going for Legwand so he should have picked up stone
SprDaVE
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- Sep 20, 2008
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I don't know why the fans only see the bad in Phaneuf.
He makes his mistakes, just like any defender out there, but he's been pretty good to me. Plays the toughest minutes by a long mile and usually does pretty well defensively.
Did you see Karlsson out there last night? Phaneuf had nowhere near that bad of a game.
It'd be nice if fans could actually have an unbiased image of Phaneuf. Seems like he never gets a fist bump when he does well but immediately gets crapped on hard when he makes a mistake or two.
He makes his mistakes, just like any defender out there, but he's been pretty good to me. Plays the toughest minutes by a long mile and usually does pretty well defensively.
Did you see Karlsson out there last night? Phaneuf had nowhere near that bad of a game.
It'd be nice if fans could actually have an unbiased image of Phaneuf. Seems like he never gets a fist bump when he does well but immediately gets crapped on hard when he makes a mistake or two.
SprDaVE
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What about the good stuff he did? He broke up a lot of plays defensively near the boards using his strength, like on Bobby Ryan (for which he drew a penalty due to a retaliation). He did a lot more good then bad but for some reason, you only see the bad.
I'd invite some of you to watch the other teams top defenders and you'll see that most of them make the mistakes you describe every game.
He hasn't played great by any means nor has it been a Norris trophy season but he's probably been our most consistent and obviously better defender throughout the season.
Expecting perfection is your problem.
BonMorrison
Registered User
Absolutely this. When Phaneuf is doing great, you don't hear a peep. One mistake later though - "Homophobic SlurOOF!" etc.
Nithoniniel
Registered User
Heh yeah Karlsson was awful.
The toughest minutes so far has actually gone to Polak with his 30% off zone starts.
I do agree with you though. I'm not a big fan of Phaneuf, but he is a competent D-man for sure. I think a part of the problem is that he tends to look worse on the ice than the results he keeps getting. He can be passive, take his time with the puck, seem to get outskated a lot and then in the end you realize that he's shut down the opponents somehow. And since that's been a rather consistent theme, perhaps he does something right.
I've said it in the Gardiner-threads and I'll say it here too. How you look doing things is not as important as the results that you bring. If they find a way to be successful, I don't care how that way looks.
It looks like he's on some sort of drug to make him have zero emotion. It's pretty pathetic.
No hockey IQ, slow, dumb, no passion.. He at least you to get mad once in awhile.... Now... Never does.
No hockey IQ, slow, dumb, no passion.. He at least you to get mad once in awhile.... Now... Never does.
SprDaVE
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Never mad? Never emotional?
You don't know what you're talking about. Or at least don't make stuff up.
What you said at the end nullifies the blame you attempted to place on Phaneuf, who already had his hands full. Polak wasn't covering his man, Dion was. End of.
You are completely out to lunch. Can you please hop on the Flames bandwagon already?
johnny_rudeboy
Registered User
Is it now I should say I told you so? Feels like I am done discussing Phaneuf. If people needed 5 seasons to realize what kind of player he is then is it really worth discussing anything?
Feels like most people are just interested in drinking the cool aid instead of trying to look at things with neautral eyes. You can actually do that and still be a fan of the franchise, club. After all, it is the Maple Leaf I support and if the player wearing it does not perform or live up to the expectations of wearing it then it should be pointed out.
"Burke is building a playoff team, those picks will be in the 20´s"...
No they will not, this is one of the worst teams in the league who dont have a #1 center, #1 defender, no captain and qustionanle goalie situation. Those teams dont trade first rounders for a one way goal scoring winger and they dont make the playoffs.
"Stajan or anyother of our players have really improved their game just look at their numbers"
No, a team who dont hold players accountable for sloppy defensive play will have players inflating their number by cheating on the ice to get offensive advantages. On other teams these guys would put up numbers like a 3rd liner, on our team they get numbers of really good 2nd liners or ok 1st liners. But their +- will not be good. But afterall that stats is useless...
"Goalies always become bad in Toronto"
No, not really. But goalies are always left alone with out support in Toronto because the rest of the team are trying to get better offensive numbers. And that we never seem to play anything else then run and gun and not a system who takes a good defensive in mind we will never be able insulate a goalie who is having a bad day.
"We will make the playoffs this season (09-10, 10-11, 11-12 etc")
No we will not. We have a team built the wrong way who lacks character and leadership and good players in key positions and only good players in complimantary positions. Sure, we made the playoffs in a shortened season but despite what some say, we did not play nearly as good as most other playoffs teams did. Being out hustled and out shot most every night. It was our crazy shooting percentage and some terrific goaltending that got us in to the playoffs.
"There is not just one way to build a team"
Well, actually there is more or less just variations of one way to build a team who can be successful. You need to focus on your teams defensive first of all. That means you have to sort out the goalie situation and your top 4 before you focus on anything else. Then you need to focus on a center for the first line and also have some good to great penelty killers. Every other way will fail.
And my favorite and why it is getting a bit tiresome to point out obvious things.
"Dion Phaneuf is a legit #1, easily top 20 in the league"
I have can agree that he for periods have looked ok some times even good. But he is just to slow both on his feet and mind to be an effective top player who can play 23+ minutes per night on a succesful team. To many questionable decisions, missed markings and sloppy passes to be considered a #1. And to pay some one like that $7m a year means you will have to pay the guy who is a #1 on your team even more. Some people just dont realize that or are just figuing it out.
Is being a fan really about having blind faith in who ever is leading your team both on and off the ice?
Feels like most people are just interested in drinking the cool aid instead of trying to look at things with neautral eyes. You can actually do that and still be a fan of the franchise, club. After all, it is the Maple Leaf I support and if the player wearing it does not perform or live up to the expectations of wearing it then it should be pointed out.
"Burke is building a playoff team, those picks will be in the 20´s"...
No they will not, this is one of the worst teams in the league who dont have a #1 center, #1 defender, no captain and qustionanle goalie situation. Those teams dont trade first rounders for a one way goal scoring winger and they dont make the playoffs.
"Stajan or anyother of our players have really improved their game just look at their numbers"
No, a team who dont hold players accountable for sloppy defensive play will have players inflating their number by cheating on the ice to get offensive advantages. On other teams these guys would put up numbers like a 3rd liner, on our team they get numbers of really good 2nd liners or ok 1st liners. But their +- will not be good. But afterall that stats is useless...
"Goalies always become bad in Toronto"
No, not really. But goalies are always left alone with out support in Toronto because the rest of the team are trying to get better offensive numbers. And that we never seem to play anything else then run and gun and not a system who takes a good defensive in mind we will never be able insulate a goalie who is having a bad day.
"We will make the playoffs this season (09-10, 10-11, 11-12 etc")
No we will not. We have a team built the wrong way who lacks character and leadership and good players in key positions and only good players in complimantary positions. Sure, we made the playoffs in a shortened season but despite what some say, we did not play nearly as good as most other playoffs teams did. Being out hustled and out shot most every night. It was our crazy shooting percentage and some terrific goaltending that got us in to the playoffs.
"There is not just one way to build a team"
Well, actually there is more or less just variations of one way to build a team who can be successful. You need to focus on your teams defensive first of all. That means you have to sort out the goalie situation and your top 4 before you focus on anything else. Then you need to focus on a center for the first line and also have some good to great penelty killers. Every other way will fail.
And my favorite and why it is getting a bit tiresome to point out obvious things.
"Dion Phaneuf is a legit #1, easily top 20 in the league"
I have can agree that he for periods have looked ok some times even good. But he is just to slow both on his feet and mind to be an effective top player who can play 23+ minutes per night on a succesful team. To many questionable decisions, missed markings and sloppy passes to be considered a #1. And to pay some one like that $7m a year means you will have to pay the guy who is a #1 on your team even more. Some people just dont realize that or are just figuing it out.
Is being a fan really about having blind faith in who ever is leading your team both on and off the ice?
"Dion Phaneuf is a legit #1, easily top 20 in the league"
I have can agree that he for periods have looked ok some times even good. But he is just to slow both on his feet and mind to be an effective top player who can play 23+ minutes per night on a succesful team. To many questionable decisions, missed markings and sloppy passes to be considered a #1. And to pay some one like that $7m a year means you will have to pay the guy who is a #1 on your team even more. Some people just dont realize that or are just figuing it out.
Yeah, I can see you don't watch any games and just rely on other people's opinions. Moving on
Being objective isn't about being purely critical. It's funny how you just went on a rant about that blind faith and such, yet you spout out the same old tired nonsense which Phaneuf has constantly disproven time and time again. Maybe you just don't realize this, and in time, you'll figure it out.
William Hylander
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- Aug 17, 2009
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Dion is not the problem, he himself plays the toughest minutes and he does a good job. The problem is no one else can play the tough minutes.
johnny_rudeboy
Registered User
"Dion Phaneuf is a legit #1, easily top 20 in the league"
I have can agree that he for periods have looked ok some times even good. But he is just to slow both on his feet and mind to be an effective top player who can play 23+ minutes per night on a succesful team. To many questionable decisions, missed markings and sloppy passes to be considered a #1. And to pay some one like that $7m a year means you will have to pay the guy who is a #1 on your team even more. Some people just dont realize that or are just figuing it out.
Yeah, I can see you don't watch any games and just rely on other people's opinions. Moving on
Being objective isn't about being purely critical. It's funny how you just went on a rant about that blind faith and such, yet you spout out the same old tired nonsense which Phaneuf has constantly disproven time and time again. Maybe you just don't realize this, and in time, you'll figure it out.
I am far from only being critical. I just praise the players who I think deserves praise. The ones who works hard to improve them self and help the team in anyway they can. Be it a 1st liners or a 4th liners.
I am however unlike you not a fan of individual players but more team oriented. I have no problems with us trading anyone if it improves us long term.
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