Did Dubas Trade away a future Conn Smythe Winner in Nazem Kadri?

[ACC1224]

This is not true at all. This board was put in this self rental position before and we came to a majority opinion that contenders keep their self rentals.

No offence but this place really needs to stop this game of making up fake scenarios to try to prove points.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I'm not sure what ignoring legitimate context and arbitrarily blaming losses on random incorrect things accomplishes. If you don't think Kadri being there makes any difference, I don't know why we're having this discussion in the first place.

The trade he got was fair value (actually seen as a slam dunk by pretty much everybody at the time), and not only would going into the season with him send a bad message and complicate filling out the defense, his value likely would have just continued to drop.

You think a cost controlled C at $4.5M for 3yrs is worth Kerfoot and Barrie? I think had he been able to get Brodie and that 4th Liner out of Calgary we would have been better off since our D was atrocious against CBJ. He would have gotten more had he waited. Sakic has proven that patience is the way to go with Duchene and O'Reilly.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Was there a poll created for the Kadri trade and did every single TO fan participate?

Obviously not, but the overwhelming sentiment from Leaf fans, media, and even the biggest anti-Leaf individuals was that the trade ranged somewhere between good and slam dunk win. Go back and read through the threads if you don't believe me.

 

[ACC1224]

you seem upset ? i wonder why ?

I'm not upset in the least, just had 3 pints and wings for lunch. I wonder why you'd think that or care how I'm feeling?

 

[Gary Nylund]

In the end, our goaltending has mostly performed up to and beyond their level of compensation. The decamillionaires repeatedly haven't performed up to the level of their compensation at crunch time in every single playoff series.

What an odd statement to make. Our "big 4" all played really well in this years playoffs, did you watch the games?

Kadri trade alone should have been enough to fire Dubas
Zamboni lost alone should have been enough to fire Keefe

But we don't do that stuff

This is a safe space

LOL.

He didnt HAVE to go. he was traded because of his non-stop suspensions in the playoffs
wish we never traded him the trade at the time felt fine if we had to but just didnt work out

He did have to go, and is was because of his non-stop suspensions in the playoffs.

There’s so much salt.

Yup. I thought the curse turned the Leafs into a pillar of salt, it seems that this place was turned into a pillar of salt as well.

He got dealt because dubas wanted to make a big move and he was our best chip in the 2019 offseason as Nylander had a horrific year of hockey so he couldn't couldn't dealt.

Yeah right. LOL.

Some Leafs fans are hanging on hope that it would eventually be different under Kadri despite continuously finding himself in trouble for the same things (even once he left) and even struggling with inconsistency for 2 years with Colorado until he finally broke out in a contract year. Meanwhile, they have little patience for other players/coaches/GM's who are on our team... Even though I bet they would say the exact same thing if they left and found success with another team (which, for much of those people, is doing nothing really different than what they are currently doing other than finding a way to win a series).

So true!

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

No, Dubas traded away a guy with 10 points in 19 games in the playoffs, who had been suspended for two playoffs in a row, likely losing us the series both years.

If you're upset about him having a great playoffs somewhere else years later, I sure hope you're not one of the people who has wanted to throw away our core players way better than Kadri in their early-mid 20s.

I don't know if he lost the series for us in 2018 though it sure didn't help.

but he ABSOLUTELY lost us the series in 2019

 

[Arthur Morgan]

He did have to go, and is was because of his non-stop suspensions in the playoffs.

No we could have figured something out and kept him in the mix. and it wasnt just that. that helped push things over the edge but he had alot of issues within the franchise over the years too. it's fine if you disagree but Kadri being moved wasn't 100% needed. we as a fan base and Im sure upper management were angry and calling for it.

 

[Gabriel426]

Sometime players need a change of scenery in order for them to wake up and understand what they needed to do in order to take the next step in their game. Sucks that Kadri didn’t realize that while he was in Toronto.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

This Kadri deal is really shining right now as Kadri is a force in the playoffs. Still on a Leafs contract, and in the conversation for a Conn Smythe candidate.

If Kadri was signed today, long term at the same contract, what would you trade from the Leafs current roster to get him back in blue and white?

Not a drop pass in sight.

he needed to go he had been suspended by the team because he's an idiot

he had been suspended 2 playoffs in a row because he's an idiot

he's been suspended 3 times in the last 4 playoff years because he's an idiot

if a player is showing you over and over and over and over again that he's an idiot that player, no matter how good he is needs to go, because no matter how good he is it doesn't matter if he can't play because he'as suspended.

The trade is not a good one , in fact it is Dubas's worst trade as GM and I don't think that's up for debate.

However had he not blocked the trade to Calgary it would have been Brodie and Bennett instead of Barrie and Kerfoot and chances are that deal would be looking a lot better.

Look what Bennett has done in Florida I believe he has a similar impact here considering that he'd have Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander and Rielly around him here.

The trade didn't work out but that doesn't change the fact Kadri HAD to go he proved himself to be unreliable

 

[barilko05]

Dubas haters and Dubas fan boys will never be satisfied with any outcome. At the end of it all, Kadri went because he cost this team a playoff series. Not once...but twice...against the same team...for the same infraction. If he had matured after the first series, kept his cool, picked his spot, maybe...just maybe....he would have been the difference in that 2nd series. But he didn't. And he didn't when he went to Colorado, because he got suspended a THIRD time. If he has finally gotten his shit together, good for him. Had a career year in a contract season...double plus good. But for the love of god, he's gone. He's not coming back. The trade was done...we didn't get the best return, mostly because he turned down a deal to Calgary where we would have gotten Brodie a year earlier...so let's just move on. And as for his great season, I've got two words for you...Jordan Tootoo. Naz is gonna get paid...but time will tell if he can sustain his play to this years level. History says no, but some team will gamble he can buck the trend. Just like I'm pretty sure Chris Kreider isn't going to score close to 50 next year, I'm betting Kadri will revert back to the 50 to 60 point player he was before. And some team's cap is gonna be screwed in couple years time. Glad it won't be ours.

 

[Gary Nylund]

No we could have figured something out and kept him in the mix. and it wasnt just that. that helped push things over the edge but he had alot of issues within the franchise over the years too. it's fine if you disagree but Kadri being moved wasn't 100% needed. we as a fan base and Im sure upper management were angry and calling for it.

I guess you could argue nothing's 100% needed.

I doubt upper management had anything to do with Kadri being moved.

IMO it had nothing to do with the "issues over the years", it was the playoff suspensions. He was my favourite player but he was also a hothead who couldn't control his temper.

 

[Gary Nylund]

he needed to go he had been suspended by the team because he's an idiot

he had been suspended 2 playoffs in a row because he's an idiot

he's been suspended 3 times in the last 4 playoff years because he's an idiot

if a player is showing you over and over and over and over again that he's an idiot that player, no matter how good he is needs to go, because no matter how good he is it doesn't matter if he can't play because he'as suspended.

The trade is not a good one , in fact it is Dubas's worst trade as GM and I don't think that's up for debate.

However had he not blocked the trade to Calgary it would have been Brodie and Bennett instead of Barrie and Kerfoot and chances are that deal would be looking a lot better.

Look what Bennett has done in Florida I believe he has a similar impact here considering that he'd have Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander and Rielly around him here.

The trade didn't work out but that doesn't change the fact Kadri HAD to go he proved himself to be unreliable

Saying it's "Dubas's worst trade as GM and I don't think that's up for debate" is just LOL, especially if you agree that "he needed to go".

He had to go, Dubas got the best offer for him that was out there and that was that.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Saying it's "Dubas's worst trade as GM and I don't think that's up for debate" is just LOL, especially if you agree that "he needed to go".

He had to go, Dubas got the best offer for him that was out there and that was that.

him needing to go and it being a good deal and 2 different things.

the only other trade that I can think of that can be argued as worse is Mason Marchment but I'd still put to Kadri trade above that one .

 

[Dekes For Days]

You think a cost controlled C at $4.5M for 3yrs is worth Kerfoot and Barrie?

I think a high-end, right-handed offensive defenseman who is good on the PP, retained at 50% for 1 year, and a 3.5m x 4 younger middle-six forward that is more defensively-oriented, versatile, and good on the PK is worth a 4.5m x 3 middle-six forward that is more offensively-oriented, good on the PP, and below-average defensively, coming off a disappointing season and two consecutive playoff suspensions.

our D was atrocious against CBJ.

That's not even true. While not as good as it is now, that was the best our defense had been in ages at that point. It would have been worse if we didn't make that trade.

He would have gotten more had he waited.

Extremely unlikely. His value would have just continued to go down, and it would have caused additional problems.

Sakic has proven that patience is the way to go with Duchene and O'Reilly.

They hadn't just been suspended for two consecutive playoffs. Duchene is also the exception, not the rule, and that took a lot of additional luck to end up with the pick they did. The O'Rielly trade wasn't anything special, so I don't know what you even mean there.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I guess you could argue nothing's 100% needed.

I doubt upper management had anything to do with Kadri being moved.

IMO it had nothing to do with the "issues over the years", it was the playoff suspensions. He was my favourite player but he was also a hothead who couldn't control his temper.

well GM is the one who makes the moves so they kinda did have something to do with moving Kadri
for as much patience this core has been given would have been nice to give Kadri that 3rd chance

 

[Lightsol]

I guess you could argue nothing's 100% needed.

I doubt upper management had anything to do with Kadri being moved.

IMO it had nothing to do with the "issues over the years", it was the playoff suspensions. He was my favourite player but he was also a hothead who couldn't control his temper.

Leaf fans seem to suffer a really bad case of Grass Is Greener syndrome, especially when it comes to players the team traded away. No matter what, what everyone else has is better than what we have and what we have is never good enough. And the Naz whining is identical to the Hyman whining; mad because we used to have them, and now they're having good playoffs, so clearly they would have been useful this year... Ignoring how they performed IN Toronto before they left, what happened, why the left, and a bunch of other information.

Like for all the guys whining about keeping McCann for Holl or Kerfoot, would you REALLY have been happy staring at the Leafs losing McCann this offseason as a UFA while loosing whoever they did in the expansion draft instead, or would you be here bitching about "Dubas blowing potential assets"?

 

[ToneDog]

Obviously not, but the overwhelming sentiment from Leaf fans, media, and even the biggest anti-Leaf individuals was that the trade ranged somewhere between good and slam dunk win. Go back and read through the threads if you don't believe me.

You are right, many loved the deal. Probably because they didn't really know what Barrie was. Very entertaining/embarrassing going back 3 years knowing how the trade played out.

I would offer Tyson Barrie 7.5-8M x 8yrs, with heavy bonuses at the start, like right now.

Like selling high on Kadri at this point as well.

I DARE YOU TO MAKE FUN OF DUBAS.

What a deal, Dubas with the steal...

Barrie is gonna get like 70 points next year on our team. Dude is gonna get like 10 mil.

Holy, Dubas is on fire.

But Barrie is clearly a guy we will bring back.


Sakic was the cat that ate the canary. Had everybody fooled.

 

[Trapper]

The Kadri ship has sailed as has many things.

The bottom line:
For Colorado, Kadri is a primary piece in their bid to reach the Cup finals. Colorado is in the 3rd round now.

For Toronto, Kerfoot is a secondary piece for a team that can’t get past the first round. Again.
Barrie was horrible, that was realized, but still the Leafs kept him rather than move him at the deadline. He did nothing for us and is doing nothing for us now.

You can argue the rest of the story now. That’s the current reality of it.

 

[PromisedLand]

I just finished work. Went on to twitter to get recent news and Dubas is trending LMAO. I am just so glad "True" Leafs fans are absolutely pissed at Dubas.

Just FYI it is not just the kadri trade where dubas has failed; and not just failed but failed spectacularly at that at managing a team competently. On top of that he has the audacity to act like he is the second coming of Einstein who will change the hockey framework LOL

Oh and the trending pic below

 

[Dekes For Days]

You are right, many loved the deal. Probably because they didn't really know what Barrie was.

Seems most who hate on the deal don't really know what Barrie was. Barrie was coming off a good season and a great playoffs where he was playing over 24 minutes a night - 5 min more per game than any other defenseman on the team. The perception of Barrie on this subforum is so skewed by the worst sample of games he had in one of the worst seasons of his career. He started the year being messed with by Babcock, and by the time he was actually used successfully here (which didn't even last all that long because our defense got decimated by injury and then covid happened), most had already made up their mind on him.

 

[PromisedLand]

Traded Kadri (and a 3rd) for one year of Barrie and Kerfoot (a mediocre 3rd line C). That was bad move at the time. Now? LOL.

if you compare the trade at when both were aged 27. The WORST part of the trade was that we did not need a d-man like Barrie. Rielly was already a PP1 quarterback. An intelligent GM has a chat with his player like Sakic did with Kadri after he got suspended again with teh Avs. Imagine if Sakic had traded Naz away after that suspension. Sakic KNOWS Hockey! On top of that his teammates on the Avs love Kadri. Landeskog and co. were out there defending Kadri in the media too.

 

[PromisedLand]

Said this in the around the league thread. But probably even more relevant here

Just for some context: 4.5 AAV

On top of that from Kadri's article he himself wrote:

I Am Who I Am | By Nazem Kadri

I’ve always been someone who, if I’m told I can’t do something … it just makes me want it so much more.

www.theplayerstribune.com

excerpt from the article

 

[barilko05]

him needing to go and it being a good deal and 2 different things.

the only other trade that I can think of that can be argued as worse is Mason Marchment but I'd still put to Kadri trade above that one .

Oh put a sock in it with the Marchment thing. Guys like him (4th line/AHL tweeners) get dealt for peanuts every year. Sometimes, they surprise in their new surroundings but most of the time it's a nothing burger trade that nobody remembers even happened. We dealt a guy who didn't fit in here, and never showed he had anything resembling the scoring touch he discovered in FLA. It's a NHL story as old as time. It's happened to hundreds of GMs and will continue to happen because it's not an exact science. Sometimes it just takes longer for the light bulb to go on with some players. Most teams don't have the luxury in a cap system of waiting for that to happen. Dubas determined he couldn't wait any longer on Marchment "getting it" so he got what he could for him. It didn't work out...at least not yet. Who's to say Malgin won't come back to the NHL in a year or two and put up Marchment's 2022 numbers? He's doing well in Switzerland at the moment. Sure, it's not likely to happen, but would you have predicted Mason Marchment would have a breakout season when we dealt him? I didn't think so.

 

[Metroid]

We got one post here one on the mains about the same thing.
Holy shit beating a dead horse here....
Leaf fans obsessions of past leaf players are very "ex bf/gf" like lol so cringe

 

[Not My Tempo]

And who traded both Kadri & Kessel. i think we all know the answer to that

I mean I don’t fault Dubas for trading Kessel, we were rebuilding, and specifically tanking. If we had Kessel there’s a chance we don’t get Matthews.

Like Dubas absolutely deserves criticism for the Kadri trade, but Kessel makes sense.