Speculation: Devils Rentals

[Hasbro]

Probably. He's pretty expensive though. Almost $6 million this year and next.

Yeah Avs fans have been eye balling, but always with retention.

I think the Devils might get better value offering some of these guys as a two player package, so say Vatanen who isn't quite worth a 1 could be put together with say Zajac and get that 1 + B prospect.

 

[devils29]

Taylor Hall essentially just returned a 1st and a B prospect. Why do Devils fans think Vatanen is going to return nearly as much as Hall did?

Because he’s a RHD on pace for 40+ points who’s solid defensively. Defense at the deadline doesn’t come cheap

 

[BruinLVGA]

What's the feeling about Palmieri? Would New Jersey be willing to move him this season or does the team want to keep him around? Perhaps Palmieri even prefers to stay put.

In the last thread about him a few days ago, Devils fans wanted a 1st + Vaakanainen, or Carlo...

 

[goonybird]

Taylor Hall essentially just returned a 1st and a B prospect. Why do Devils fans think Vatanen is going to return nearly as much as Hall did?

And another pick and two other players, and Vatanen is cheaper and in demand, who is more likely to re-sign

 

[Hasbro]

Colorado gets
Vatanen + Zajac (50% retention)

For

1st + Helleson + Jost +Rosen + Kamenev + a conditional 1st (if Vat resigns, but it's mainly abad faith offer since the Avs will need to find spots for Byram and Timmins next year)

Or pull out the conditional pick and swap Vat with Greene.

I think joining the Avalanche would be an attractive proposition for guys like Greene and Zajac to waive.

 

[Zezel22]

Colorado gets
Vatanen + Zajac (50% retention)

For

1st + Helleson + Jost +Rosen + Kamenev + a conditional 1st (if Vat resigns, but it's mainly abad faith offer since the Avs will need to find spots for Byram and Timmins next year)

Or pull out the conditional pick and swap Vat with Greene.

I think joining the Avalanche would be an attractive proposition for guys like Greene and Zajac to waive.

Like the value here alot but I think Zajac should be kept. The Devils need SOME vets and this is one with 1 year left of term... makes much more sense to keep him, for veteran presence cause you have him on a 1 year deal next year

 

[Hasbro]

Like the value here alot but I think Zajac should be kept. The Devils need SOME vets and this is one with 1 year left of term... makes much more sense to keep him, for veteran presence cause you have him on a 1 year deal next year

With Nico, Zacha, Hughes and Zajac which one of the Centers typically moves over to wing?

 

[Zezel22]

With Nico, Zacha, Hughes and Zajac which one of the Centers typically moves over to wing?

Next year, with Zajac on a 1 year deal essentially, I have no problem with him being a 4L C. But that would mean that either 1st Rd pick Zacha or McLeod steps up and takes the 3C role, so I think it's just as likely that Zajac plays goalie.

 

[Blackjack]

Colorado gets
Vatanen + Zajac (50% retention)

For

1st + Helleson + Jost +Rosen + Kamenev + a conditional 1st (if Vat resigns, but it's mainly abad faith offer since the Avs will need to find spots for Byram and Timmins next year)

Or pull out the conditional pick and swap Vat with Greene.

I think joining the Avalanche would be an attractive proposition for guys like Greene and Zajac to waive.

Works for me. Zajac would have to waive his NTC. I think he would, he's a pretty competitive guy, I think he wants to win. I don't think the value works for Colorado if you replace Vatanen with Greene. Greene is a reliable depth guy while Vatanen is a legit top 4.

 

[Zezel22]

A lot of Devils fans want to re-sign these players, in particular Vatanen. I think Vatanen will be traded though, Shero won't give him 4+ years I don't think and he deserves at least that. A 1st and B prospect sounds fair to me.

The other two might not be moved just due to the fact that the team needs players for the rest of the year and the offers won't be worth it.

Keep in mind, the rangers embarked on a rebuild 20 months ago, at a time when the devils and shero had a 2.5 year head start on them in building a new team. In that 20 months the Rangers have caught the Devils on the rebuild highway and are now miles ahead. The Rangers fearlessly announced they were building a new team, proceeded to sell everything that wasn't nailed down (Grabner, Nash, McDonaugh, Miller, Zuccarello, Hayes, Vesey), collected assets, and are where they are as a result.

If the Devils pass on the opportunity to gain assets for expiring contracts of players who are not and have not done enough to make the team even minimally competent, then they deserve what they get.

I really hate complementing the Rangers but its absolutely true. Holding these expiring vets is a terrible decision.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

If the Devils pass on the opportunity to gain assets for expiring contracts of players who are not and have not done enough to make the team even minimally competent, then they deserve what they get.

Vatanen will very likely be sold off. The other two the returns won’t move the needle so I don’t care that much what happens. The two most important assets for NJ are Nico Hischier and Jack Hughes and they need support. Young talent doesn’t just magically develop and if Shero does a cost benefit analysis and decides it’s not worth it so be it.

 

[Blackjack]

Keep in mind, the rangers embarked on a rebuild 20 months ago, at a time when the devils and shero had a 2.5 year head start on them in building a new team. In that 20 months the Rangers have caught the Devils on the rebuild highway and are now miles ahead. The Rangers fearlessly announced they were building a new team, proceeded to sell everything that wasn't nailed down (Grabner, Nash, McDonaugh, Miller, Zuccarello, Hayes, Vesey), collected assets, and are where they are as a result.

If the Devils pass on the opportunity to gain assets for expiring contracts of players who are not and have not done enough to make the team even minimally competent, then they deserve what they get.

I really hate complementing the Rangers but its absolutely true. Holding these expiring vets is a terrible decision.

The Rangers are where they are because three players, Panarin, Fox, and Trouba, chose them in the offseason. That's it.

 

[devils29]

In the last thread about him a few days ago, Devils fans wanted a 1st + Vaakanainen, or Carlo...

While also taking back Backes* that’s key as Backes as a cap dump is worth the 1st, Palmeri equals Vaakaninen

 

[Zezel22]

The Rangers are where they are because three players, Panarin, Fox, and Trouba, chose them in the offseason. That's it.

I fundamentally disagree with this.

First off, whether Trouba chose the Rangers or not, Winnipeg was not going to give him away. The Rangers used a 1st Rd pick that they acquired for an expiring veteran to acquire Trouba.

I don't have time or interest to do a deep dive into every single move they made since they announced they were starting a rebuild but here's what they brought in by selling in just those deals I mentioned above:

1st Rd picks: 3
2nd Rd picks: 3
3rd Rd picks: 2
4th Rd picks: 1
Players:
Spooner
Belesky
Lindgren
Yegor Rykov
Namestikov (flipped for a 4th)
Hajek
Howden
Lemieux

Off the top of my head, the Devils 2nd was used to trade up for k'Andre Miller. There have been multiple other moves where they have moved those assets around.

It's obviously a huge advantage to have players want to play on your team due to address alone, but to deny that the Rangers have both been aggressive and been smart in this process is foolish. They had the guts to announce their intentions and follow thru on them. The Devils need to do the same. Although their players will not draw the same bounty the Rangers did, anything helps. Simmonds and Greene COULD draw 2nd Rd picks, and if thats the case they need to take it

 

[Blackjack]

I fundamentally disagree with this.

First off, whether Trouba chose the Rangers or not, Winnipeg was not going to give him away. The Rangers used a 1st Rd pick that they acquired for an expiring veteran to acquire Trouba.

I don't have time or interest to do a deep dive into every single move they made since they announced they were starting a rebuild but here's what they brought in by selling in just those deals I mentioned above:

1st Rd picks: 3
2nd Rd picks: 3
3rd Rd picks: 2
4th Rd picks: 1
Players:
Spooner
Belesky
Lindgren
Yegor Rykov
Namestikov (flipped for a 4th)
Hajek
Howden
Lemieux

Off the top of my head, the Devils 2nd was used to trade up for k'Andre Miller. There have been multiple other moves where they have moved those assets around.

It's obviously a huge advantage to have players want to play on your team due to address alone, but to deny that the Rangers have both been aggressive and been smart in this process is foolish. They had the guts to announce their intentions and follow thru on them. The Devils need to do the same. Although their players will not draw the same bounty the Rangers did, anything helps. Simmonds and Greene COULD draw 2nd Rd picks, and if thats the case they need to take it

The reason the Rangers are "ahead" of the Devils is because of those three players, nothing you listed above has anything to do with it.

 

[BruinLVGA]

While also taking back Backes* that’s key as Backes as a cap dump is worth the 1st, Palmeri equals Vaakaninen

I do remember someone talking about Backes, but then some not mentioning anything about him.
In any case Backes is still a useful player and has only 1 more season to go. So we will rather keep the first in a supposedly very deep draft.
Palmieri with a 1.5 season left + at 29 yo is not worth our best D prospect by far, who has already shown good stuff in his call up in the NHL.
And Carlo is worth way more than Palmieri.

 

[Eggtimer]

I don’t want to trade Vatanen unless it’s clear he won’t sign an extension .
He has been our best defenceman this year with defence being our biggest weakness.
I can’t see him extending though for a term that fits with the teams plans (2-3 years for Smith and Bahl to show what they got )
I’m not sure what else is available for defencemen but losing Vatanen would put the devils further in a hole and the return we’d get for him wouldn’t be able to fill that hole .

Zajac (max retention) Simmonds Greene Wood can all be had though .
The more I think of it , everyone including prospects can go except :
Hughes
Nico
Smith
Blackwood
Zacha
Boqvist
Palms
Coleman
Gusev
Bahl
McCleod

The rest is garbage .

 

[Nocashstyle]

I do remember someone talking about Backes, but then some not mentioning anything about him.
In any case Backes is still a useful player and has only 1 more season to go. So we will rather keep the first in a supposedly very deep draft.
Palmieri with a 1.5 season left + at 29 yo is not worth our best D prospect by far, who has already shown good stuff in his call up in the NHL.
And Carlo is worth way more than Palmieri.

Who were you offering? You gotta give to get.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Who were you offering? You gotta give to get.

Personally, nobody. I like Palmieri, but there's a couple of things about his game I don't like (defensively he's pretty poor, doesn't drive the play on his line) that would be enough for me not to pursue him.
If I were to pursue him, I would say Grzelcyk straight up. Or a 2nd + one of our D prospect not named Vaakanainen.

 

[heilongjetsfan]

Taylor Hall essentially just returned a 1st and a B prospect. Why do Devils fans think Vatanen is going to return nearly as much as Hall did?

Taylor Hall returned 5 pieces? Pretty high likelihood 2 of them are 1sts. The prospects aren't very exciting but Bahl and Merkley both have an ok shot at being NHLers.

I do however agree that a 1st plus anything seems like an unrealistic return for Vatanen.

 

[Zezel22]

The reason the Rangers are "ahead" of the Devils is because of those three players, nothing you listed above has anything to do with it.

Ok

 

[Zezel22]

Colorado gets
Vatanen + Zajac (50% retention)

For

1st + Helleson + Jost +Rosen + Kamenev + a conditional 1st (if Vat resigns, but it's mainly abad faith offer since the Avs will need to find spots for Byram and Timmins next year)

Or pull out the conditional pick and swap Vat with Greene.

I think joining the Avalanche would be an attractive proposition for guys like Greene and Zajac to waive.

So youre saying 2020 1st + Helleson + Jost +Rosen + Kamenev for Greene and Zajac? retention or not that is an incredible trade for Devils and don't think it woudl ever happen. If it did NJ would be ecstatic I would imagine.

 

[TheScandal89]

Vatanen has pretty high value imo, if hes traded I wouldnt anchor him with a bad contract that'll potentially diminish the return. Putting him with a rental like Simmonds would be ok.

As a Leaf fan I'd offer the usual Johnsson + a sweetner or 2 (picks or prospects) for Vatanen + Simmonds.

Johnsson is good but too expensive for us going forward. Don't know if thats a fair offer cause I suck at valuing

 

[devils29]

Personally, nobody. I like Palmieri, but there's a couple of things about his game I don't like (defensively he's pretty poor, doesn't drive the play on his line) that would be enough for me not to pursue him.
If I were to pursue him, I would say Grzelcyk straight up. Or a 2nd + one of our D prospect not named Vaakanainen.

Yikes man. You are WAY under valuing Palmeri. When I made that proposal originally I had many Bruins fan saying it was fair and that it was a rough trade to swallow but they would do it as it made the bruins far and away cup favorites. Palmeri is a 30G RW on a sweetheart contract of 4.6 for this year and next. You may not want him and that’s fine but saying you’d offer up a #6 D and a 2nd for him is insulting.

 

[Smitty426]

Taylor Hall returned 5 pieces? Pretty high likelihood 2 of them are 1sts. The prospects aren't very exciting but Bahl and Merkley both have an ok shot at being NHLers.

I do however agree that a 1st plus anything seems like an unrealistic return for Vatanen.

Theres no likelihood that the 2nd 1st in 2021 happens (Win a round and resign in AZ)! This yrs first is top 3 protected if AZ does not make the playoffs, if so it's a '21 first. That in and of itself diminishes it almost being a second. Bahl will play, not expecting too much, yeah he's big