Speculation: Devils Rentals

[Zezel22]

When was the last time someone traded for a 37 year old bottom pair shut down guy who with max retension is making 2.5m dollars? I will wait.

I agree with the general premise that Greene stinks. Which is why Devils fans talking about bringing him BACK in 2020-2021 mind blowing to me. However I also think steady vets with a primary skill (with Greene its PK proficiency) will draw some value in return... like Lovejoy did last year.

To the poster who speculates that Shero would "let greene finish in NJ if he wants to"... Greene has a NTC so if Greene wants to finish in NJ its up to him. I object to that mindset however. Devils cant at this stage be worried about players feelings - which is why I was so confused at Shero talking about how important his relationship is with Hall in the trade post mortem. That is a nice thing for sure and it seems the Devils do that well - player relationships - but these players as a group have massively underachieved. What is best for the org needs to be done. We are not talking about Scott Stevens at the end of his career here.

 

[Blackjack]

Ben lovejoy was 3 years young and making half what andy greene does. The reason you cant get closer is because IT NEVER HAPPENS

Greene is a better defender than Lovejoy was, and it's a rental, so why would his age matter? The Devils also didn't retain on Lovejoy at all, so his cap hit was actually more than what Greene's would be if the Devils retained.

I don't know why you're so mad about this, even if he was traded (and I already speculated that he might not be) it wouldn't be for much.

 

[Blackjack]

I agree with the general premise that Greene stinks. Which is why Devils fans talking about bringing him BACK in 2020-2021 mind blowing to me. However I also think steady vets with a primary skill (with Greene its PK proficiency) will draw some value in return... like Lovejoy did last year.

To the poster who speculates that Shero would "let greene finish in NJ if he wants to"... Greene has a NTC so if Greene wants to finish in NJ its up to him.

You're right, I forget these things. But Greene doesn't stink, you're wrong about that one.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Would he have a spot on the power play? I think Palmieri can produce offense at even strength even if he's not on the top line, but if he's not getting decent power play time, then you're not benefitting as much from his shot, which is one of his real strengths. If there's not a spot for him on the half boards I don't know that it would be worth it for Boston.

Not on unit #1: Krug on the blue line... Pastrnak and Marchand on the half boards... Bergeron the bumper... Debrusk to disturb/shield the goalie and rebounds.

 

[Blackjack]

Not on unit #1: Krug on the blue line... Pastrnak and Marchand on the half boards... Bergeron the bumper... Debrusk to disturb/shield the goalie and rebounds.

11 of Palmieri's 23 points this season are on the power play. Again, I do think that he can produce at even strength, but I agree with you that if you're looking for a 2nd line play driver, Palmieri is probably not the guy. He probably makes much more sense for a team that is strong 5v5 but needs help on the power play.

 

[My3Sons]

Greene can clear waivers. He has no value in 2020

This is the same troll who said Hischier would never sign a contract extension with NJ that included UFA years so take that into account when considering the opinion.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Vatanen should be re-signed. If he doesn't want to, I'm not taking anything less than a 1st with no conditions.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Fair enough. Seeing what Hall - a much superior player - fetched, I have doubts, but godspeed anyways.

Well, for starters, Palmieri isn’t on an expiring contract. He’s also not due for a massive pay raise once his is expired. You think 5’9 bottom pair Grezlyck is really incentivizing the Devils to move their only pure scorer?

I don’t know much about Bruins defensive prospect. Assume you’re talking about Zboril or Lauzon? I like what I read about Lauzon, but hardly seems like his ceiling is also any better that 5/6 at most. Same with Zboril.

If Palms with purely a rental, I don’t think either deals are bad, but that’s not the case.

 

[SlapshotTheMovie]

This is the same troll who said Hischier would never sign a contract extension with NJ that included UFA years so take that into account when considering the opinion.

Yeah you really showed me by him sign for 1 ufa year. Dude will be 27 and sign with a contender since you are entering yet another rebuild.

 

[BruinLVGA]

11 of Palmieri's 23 points this season are on the power play. Again, I do think that he can produce at even strength, but I agree with you that if you're looking for a 2nd line play driver, Palmieri is probably not the guy. He probably makes much more sense for a team that is strong 5v5 but needs help on the power play.

I agree.

 

[Zezel22]

You're right, I forget these things. But Greene doesn't stink, you're wrong about that one.

To each there own, I guess.

Since earlier in this thread someone dropepd the "when is the last time..." bomb, I would ask - is there another captain in recent NHL history that has presided over a worse team results wise over the term of their captaincy? It would be hard to find I think, esp when considering that these Devils teams over the years have been known for no-show nights, no-show starts, inconsistency across the board - which are typically things captains are expected to at least impact.

He is "steady" I suppose, and has very good numbers as a PK'er, which is why I think he would have value to a team as a bottom pair, PK'er for a couple months. Want no part whatsoever of being involved for another full season.

 

[Blackjack]

Yeah you really showed me by him sign for 1 ufa year. Dude will be 27 and sign with a contender since you are entering yet another rebuild.

LMAO, math is hard.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I'm not sure how you can say that. We have seen each of these players demonstrate substantial scoring ability, it's just a matter of getting it out of them consistently.

That group could really use a consistently good veteran scorer. A Kyle Palmieri-type, if you will.

 

[Blackjack]

That group could really use a consistently good veteran scorer. A Kyle Palmieri-type, if you will.

Okay, that's a little different, before we were talking about talent. As far as veteran leadership goes, I agree that there is value to keeping guys like Palmieri around. I think for me it comes down to what the offers are. If they're underwhelming, then I'd be happy to keep Palmieri. If we get a deal like the Avs got for Duchene, then I think you have to do it.

 

[devils29]

I didn't offer Grelczyk and a 2nd. If you talk about a #6D and a 2nd, the one I talked in conjunction with a 2nd would be Vaakanainen. That's what I wrote.

And in any case if Grelczyk is the 5th best overall defenseman in Boston, it doesn't mean that he's a #6D.
He's a young, very mobile, agile, offensive defenseman who loves driving the play, has great speed, skating, vision and a booming wrist shot. He's our 2nd best offensive D. And best of all, he isn't the finished product just yet, he has still room to evolve further. Judging by your D, he'd be significantly higher than #5. For one, your break outs are about as bad as I have seen and someone like Grelczyk carrying the puck out of your D zone would be just what the doctor ordered.

In the past 2 1/2 seasons I watched about 70-80 NJ games, purely to observe Hischier who happened to be Palmieri's center for 95% of that time. How many Bruins games did you watch?
+/- isn't exactly a wonderful stat, to use an euphemism, to judge how one plays D.
In those 70-80 games I saw, the spiel was Hischier trying very hard on D, Palmieri and Hall (more so the latter) ready to jump on the counter attack when/if the D and Hischier would get the puck back.

As I said, Palmieri wouldn't even remotely have the same opportunity in Boston, as 1. he wouldn't even get near first line duty and 2. here everybody is tasked with putting a 100% effort on D.
And as I also said, he's signed cheap only till the end of next season. For me, he's most definitely not worth Vaakanainen and a second. Grelczyk... It would be painful to lose him, but it would be worth him. Add a third for the extra season, max.
Oh and by the way,if you want to talk "insulting", in that other thread some NJ fan wanted Carlo for Palmieri. Now that's insulting.

You’re right, I just checked you tried to offer Gryz straight up my god what a delusional offer. trying to offer a #5/#6 D for a 30G scorer. Luckily in the thread I made earlier there was Bruins fans who were on planet earth and we had a solid conversation haha. Woof just say you don’t want him that’s fine. But don’t try to justify Palmeri being only worth a 5/6D with made up things like he doesn’t play D or he some how would lose his goal scoring ability on your 2nd line

 

[Zezel22]

Yeah you really showed me by him sign for 1 ufa year. Dude will be 27 and sign with a contender since you are entering yet another rebuild.

Generally, I despise the Rangers and their fans. There hasn't been a less successful franchise in all of professional sports when factoring age and resources than the New York Rangers.

But you can't fault people for talking smack about Hischier being free at 27 because the perception that Devils star players bolt in UFA is based in reality. There was, of course, the mixed bag during the Lamoriello era with guys like Brodeur (espiecially), Stevens, Elias being committed to the program and staying versus Niedermayer, Parise, Rafalski among many others leaving. We are now into the Shero era and are 0-1.

 

[BruinLVGA]

You’re right, I just checked you tried to offer Gryz straight up my god what a delusional offer. trying to offer a #5/#6 D for a 30G scorer. Luckily in the thread I made earlier there was Bruins fans who were on planet earth and we had a solid conversation haha. Woof just say you don’t want him that’s fine. But don’t try to justify Palmeri being only worth a 5/6D with made up things like he doesn’t play D or he some how would lose his goal scoring ability on your 2nd line

OK, if this is the road you choose, fine.

Palmieri hasn't been a 30 goal scorer since 2015-16. He no longer is a 30 goal scorer, hasn't been for 3+ years or 3 1/2 seasons.

Palmieri, from 15-16 to today (= his most successful seasons) has 121 goals. Of whom, 48 were on the PP: that's 40% of his production.
In the same span he produced 227 points. 97 of those on the PP. That's 43%.
He's a winger who has put up 44-57 points each year, playing on your TOP LINE, but has only put up between 21-34 points 5vs5. Even this year he has 23 points and 11 (= 48% of all his points) are on the PP.

So, what's the worth of a winger who doesn't drive the play, doesn't bother much with D, and gets only 20-30ish points unless he's fed top PP minutes? And when he's fed them minutes he still only will get you 50 points and change? Oh and to boot he only has 1 year left on his contract and will need a major bump in salary as it's his last big contract due to his age?
My answer is: not much. And if he wouldn't get fed top PP minutes (which is what would happen in Boston. Marchand and Pastrnak would get that), even less.

There, I bet now you're happy.

 

[Blackjack]

Generally, I despise the Rangers and their fans. There hasn't been a less successful franchise in all of professional sports when factoring age and resources than the New York Rangers.

But you can't fault people for talking smack about Hischier being free at 27 because the perception that Devils star players bolt in UFA is based in reality. There was, of course, the mixed bag during the Lamoriello era with guys like Brodeur (espiecially), Stevens, Elias being committed to the program and staying versus Niedermayer, Parise, Rafalski among many others leaving. We are now into the Shero era and are 0-1.

I mean, he's just flat out wrong. The Hischier deal buys 3 UFA years, not 1. He signed one of longest post-ELC deals in the league, I don't think anyone besides McDavid and Draisaitl signed for 8 years.

 

[135ace]

I agree with you in theory. We can disagree about Vatanen specifically but we agree they have to sell expiring assets. They have to.

By the way the Rangers farm system has catapulted past the Devils in the last 20 months. That has nothing to do with Panarin, Trouba etc. Thats the assets they have built. I dont think the Devils have more assets coming up than the Rangers. I think they have a good deal less.

This is a quality over quantity thing with the rangers prospects being overhyped to the moon. Their u-21 core is really unimpressive. Lias Andersson is a massive bust, Chytil is nowhere near as good as the hype, and Kravtsov has been a disaster this year. They basically have Kakko and a bunch of B level guys while we're sitting on a core of Nico + Jack + whomever we pick this year, and to be honest I wouldn't trade those 3 assets for a package of Kakko+ NYR's top 10 prospects. There's simply nothing of elite quality.

 

[Forge]

Vatanen should be re-signed. If he doesn't want to, I'm not taking anything less than a 1st with no conditions.

So if Vats doesn't want to re-sign, knowing he's going to be gone in a couple of months, you're going to cut off your nose to spite your face and just hold him for the rest of the year if you don't get the specific offer you want?

 

[Zezel22]

This is a quality over quantity thing with the rangers prospects being overhyped to the moon. Their u-21 core is really unimpressive. Lias Andersson is a massive bust, Chytil is nowhere near as good as the hype, and Kravtsov has been a disaster this year. They basically have Kakko and a bunch of B level guys while we're sitting on a core of Nico + Jack + whomever we pick this year, and to be honest I wouldn't trade those 3 assets for a package of Kakko+ NYR's top 10 prospects. There's simply nothing of elite quality.

The Devils have had 2 lottery wins, which SHOULD make their top two prospects/young players better than almost anyone else as they had their pick of any player in 2 of the last 3 drafts. Hughes, Nico and Kakko are the top 3 young players in both organizations combined - How to rank those 3 is up to whoever is doing the ranking. Most would agree that Hughes and Nico are not generational players as you would have expected they would be - or at least one would be - with 2 #1 picks in 3 years.

The Rangers have two very good to elite goalie prospects which is better than what the Devils have maybe even at the NHL level. They have had a bust in Anderson, the Devils have had 2 busts in Zacha and McLeod. How different the Devils would look today with almost any player picked in the next 10 spots after Zacha or with McAvoy or Chychrun instead of McLeod is almost immeasurable.

You can rank the groups of Kravstov, Miller etc vs the group of Smith, Boqvist and again, you'll see what you want to see. At the least, the Rangers are closer than they should be being that they were still playing in the spring when the devils were YEARS into rebuild 1.0... I would argue they are ahead

 

[TheScandal89]

Vatanen+Simmonds for Johnsson+Bracco+Ceci(cap purposes)plus another small piece may make some sense for both sides. Nj get a young top 6 winger and a good prospect and the Leafs get a good top 4 D who's expiring and a bottom 6 winger who can throw the body. I know Devils fans are asking for a 1st plus a prospect for Vats but Johnsson and Bracco give you similar value. I dont think the Leafs could even make this work cap wise so NJ would need to retain which means the Leafs would need to add another small piece as well.

Retaining on expiring contracts is no big deal imo, doesn't justify needing a big sweetner.

I'd prefer to keep Bracco, personally. When we have to trade one of Nylander or Kappy, I picture Bracco being the replacement at a much lower cap hit.

 

[OVO16]

Would Love Simmonds on the 4th line on the Leafs.

Cap wont make it work though

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

OK, if this is the road you choose, fine.

Palmieri hasn't been a 30 goal scorer since 2015-16. He no longer is a 30 goal scorer, hasn't been for 3+ years or 3 1/2 seasons.

Palmieri, from 15-16 to today (= his most successful seasons) has 121 goals. Of whom, 48 were on the PP: that's 40% of his production.
In the same span he produced 227 points. 97 of those on the PP. That's 43%.
He's a winger who has put up 44-57 points each year, playing on your TOP LINE, but has only put up between 21-34 points 5vs5. Even this year he has 23 points and 11 (= 48% of all his points) are on the PP.

So, what's the worth of a winger who doesn't drive the play, doesn't bother much with D, and gets only 20-30ish points unless he's fed top PP minutes? And when he's fed them minutes he still only will get you 50 points and change? Oh and to boot he only has 1 year left on his contract and will need a major bump in salary as it's his last big contract due to his age?
My answer is: not much. And if he wouldn't get fed top PP minutes (which is what would happen in Boston. Marchand and Pastrnak would get that), even less.

There, I bet now you're happy.

You’re totally wrong about his defense, he’s excellent. Kyle Palmieri’s Secret Weapon — his Two-Way Game

He’s 12th in goals for RWs between 2016-2019 (excluding his best year). 2015-2018 he’s 9th in goals for RWs. He’s a 1st line right wing.

 

[Blackjack]

The Devils have had 2 lottery wins, which SHOULD make their top two prospects/young players better than almost anyone else as they had their pick of any player in 2 of the last 3 drafts. Hughes, Nico and Kakko are the top 3 young players in both organizations combined - How to rank those 3 is up to whoever is doing the ranking. Most would agree that Hughes and Nico are not generational players as you would have expected they would be - or at least one would be - with 2 #1 picks in 3 years.

The Rangers have two very good to elite goalie prospects which is better than what the Devils have maybe even at the NHL level. They have had a bust in Anderson, the Devils have had 2 busts in Zacha and McLeod. How different the Devils would look today with almost any player picked in the next 10 spots after Zacha or with McAvoy or Chychrun instead of McLeod is almost immeasurable.

Neither Zacha nor McLeod are busts. They are both in the NHL. Lias Andersson is not, and for that matter, neither is Kravtsov. In fact, the Rangers have exactly one young player in the NHL with elite upside: Kakko. The Devils have two. (I don't think either team has any "generational" players, but IF there is one, he plays for the Devils and wears #86.) The Rangers only have 2 young first round picks playing in the NHL right now (meaning their own picks): Kakko and Chytil. Neither of them are scoring at even 1/2 point per game. They may impove, and I certainly expect at least Kakko to improve, but for now they have proven nothing.

There's no reason to believe that Georgiev or Shestyorkin will be better than Blackwood. Blackwood's save percentage is nearly equal to Georgiev's despite playing behind a much worse defense, and Shestyorkin has not played an NHL game yet.

You can rank the groups of Kravstov, Miller etc vs the group of Smith, Boqvist and again, you'll see what you want to see. At the least, the Rangers are closer than they should be being that they were still playing in the spring when the devils were YEARS into rebuild 1.0... I would argue they are ahead

Boqvist is an NHL player, Kravtsov is not. K'Andre Miller is looking good in college, but so is Tyce Thompson. Again, you call Zacha a bust; you know what Zacha was doing when he was Kravtsov's age? Playing in the NHL. Same with Jesper Bratt.