Ripshot 43
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- Jul 21, 2010
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You guys are debating Holtz? Here we are on a 4-0-0 preseason heater
He was pretty bad overall. He made a nice play to jump past a defender to find open ice on his goal, but overall I thought he still didn't battle hard enough along the boards, he was terrible in his own zone and he still has that lost in the woods look to his game.Holtz had a goal last night and could have scored two more and people are ragging on him?? Jesus Christ
He was fine. I think everyone is spoiled with the rapid development of Nico, Jack and Dawson that they're now expecting the same trajectory from Holtz.He was pretty bad overall. He made a nice play to jump past a defender to find open ice on his goal, but over I thought he still didn't battle hard enough along the boards, he was terrible in his own zone and he still that lost in the woods look to his game.
I mean ok... maybe he needs some more time? But he really isn't good enough as is to have a permanent top 9 spot on a team that has higher aspirations...He was fine. I think everyone is spoiled with the rapid development of Nico, Jack and Dawson that everyone is expecting the same trajectory from Holtz.
I mean ok... maybe he needs some more time? But he really isn't good enough as is to have a permanent top 9 spot on a team that has higher aspirations...
3 years ago we could've given him games but I think we're past that now.
Why can't we afford to give him games? If anything we now have the luxury to do that, even if it's shown he's not ready he's not going to sink the ship, we're waaaaay too good for that to happen.I mean ok... maybe he needs some more time? But he really isn't good enough as is to have a permanent top 9 spot on a team that has higher aspirations...
3 years ago we could've given him games but I think we're past that now.
I'd rather move Lazar to the 3rd RW.We do not have a better option. Clarke sucks. Foote’s not good enough for the top 9. The rest are 4th liners. This team should be more than good enough to give Holtz some rope to get a grasp on if he’s good enough. Give him like 20 games with consistent top 9 time. He doesn’t work then you trade for a top 9 guy.
I mean ok... maybe he needs some more time? But he really isn't good enough as is to have a permanent top 9 spot on a team that has higher aspirations...
It's hard to say it was a mistake when we started winning as soon as his playing time was cut...now I'm not saying that's the reason why we won or lost...but when your doing everything in your power to win, Holtz is just not your best option.I disagree that he isn't good enough for top9, but even if he wasn't, we need to give our prospects a chance to make mistakes and learn. We did that with Hughes and it paid off (although he probably would have succeeded through any route) . Burying Holtz in the healthy scratch last year was a huge mistake and even if he gets to play in the AHL, not giving him a chance to learn but reject him third year in a row could be bad for his confidence and development.
I disagree that he isn't good enough for top9, but even if he wasn't, we need to give our prospects a chance to make mistakes and learn. We did that with Hughes and it paid off (although he probably would have succeeded through any route) . Burying Holtz in the healthy scratch last year was a huge mistake and even if he gets to play in the AHL, not giving him a chance to learn but reject him third year in a row could be bad for his confidence and development.
The real issue is Holtz is not good enough for this team. Not what line he plays on. Anybody who watch these games and can say they see improvement is lying.
He had 19 games last year to learn...This isn't fair. His skating is undoubtedly improved. He looks like he can physically keep up with this team now which is not something we could say last season.
That said, I'm concerned with his mental game. I don't think he's ready there yet. His reads are better, but still leave much to be desired. And when he has the puck on his stick for more and a second or two, he turns into a grenade handler. I don't think he's ready for NHL top 6 minutes yet. The issue is, he is too good for the AHL. That is, I think the only way for him to have a chance at the NHL level is to learn at the NHL level, and I wonder how patient the organization would be with his growing pains now that we are in our window.
And now that I look all the way to the end of this thread I see @Hisch13r basically said the same thing.
This isn't fair. His skating is undoubtedly improved. He looks like he can physically keep up with this team now which is not something we could say last season.
That said, I'm concerned with his mental game. I don't think he's ready there yet. His reads are better, but still leave much to be desired. And when he has the puck on his stick for more and a second or two, he turns into a grenade handler. I don't think he's ready for NHL top 6 minutes yet. The issue is, he is too good for the AHL. That is, I think the only way for him to have a chance at the NHL level is to learn at the NHL level, and I wonder how patient the organization would be with his growing pains now that we are in our window.
And now that I look all the way to the end of this thread I see @Hisch13r basically said the same thing.
He had 19 games last year to learn...
You how tough it is to be a -6 on a team that had a +67 goal differential?
And for the people that don't like plus/minus, his -8.3 relCF% tells the same story.
Lowest on ice shooting%, lowest on ice save %. Not that tough. He stunk last year, but I do not care about his plus minus in that small set of games with spotty playing time.He had 19 games last year to learn...
You how tough it is to be a -6 on a team that had a +67 goal differential?
No regular was a minus on the team.
And for the people that don't like plus/minus, his -8.3 relCF% tells the same story. Only Okhotyuk and Tyce were worse.
Hughes was being held to a much different standard. An elite standard.This Holtz discussion is generally weird.
He’s obviously faster and more engaged. He’s scored 2 goals. He’s had 1 pretty good game and 1 mediocre game.
Looking to last year is pointless since it’s no longer last year and Holtz is a growing player.
Implying Holtz at 21 has had time to show who he is but Thompson at 24 isn’t even worse when viewed through that lense is bad logic.
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@JimEIV should have learned that pointing to last season isn’t always the best way to project forward on prospects when he missed on Hughes so hard using the same type of reasoning.
I’d say his development was handled as it needed to be given what he ended up turning into. The ass kicking was part of the process.Hughes was being held to a much different standard. An elite standard.
Holtz D+4 still very much does not look NHL capable. The two situations aren't similar at all.
Oh and I'll forever stand by Hughes didn't belong in the league his first two years.... Maybe his second but definitely not 2020. He just wasn't NHL ready.
Lucky he didn't get really hurt.I’d say his development was handled as it needed to be given what he ended up turning into. The ass kicking was part of the process.
considering your history with the majority of our best players in our lineup, lets just say I will take your opinion with a grain of salt.The real issue is Holtz is not good enough for this team. Not what line he plays on. Anybody who watch these games and can say they see improvement is lying.
This Holtz discussion is generally weird.
He’s obviously faster and more engaged. He’s scored 2 goals. He’s had 1 pretty good game and 1 mediocre game.
Looking to last year is pointless since it’s no longer last year and Holtz is a growing player.
Implying Holtz at 21 has had time to show who he is but Thompson at 24 hasn’t had time is bad logic.
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@JimEIV should have learned that pointing to last season isn’t always the best way to project forward on prospects when he missed on Hughes so hard using the same type of reasoning.