GDT: Devils @ Flyers - 7 P.M. - Devils TV

[Devilsgrl35]

View attachment 747828

I predict this will be someone's avatar before the season is over.

 

[Lou Bloom]

I don't even know what you're inferring here? You really think that Holtz will play on the 4th line? Good luck with that. Its pretty clear what his skillset is, and who he should play with to be an effective player.

Holtz has done much more than "shoot the puck" in this preseason so far. He has made plays in the neutral zone and seems to be thinking the game a bit better.

I think Thompson is fine but he is 24 years old and still hasn't broken into the league yet. He is almost certainly your classic AAAA player.

The inference is that the "Holtz has to play in a top 6 role to be effective" talk is just a lame excuse for his poor overall play. There's no shortage of young promising players that started in the bottom 6 early in their career and worked their way up the lineup with good play. If Holtz was a net positive player they're should be no problem with him playing a 3rd line role.

I couldn't disagree more with your 2nd point. He's scored two goals and made a good pass or two but anytime he's had the puck on his stick he has constantly made rushed decisions and shows very little composure with the puck. when he doesn't have space in the offensive zone he's been a net negative.

There's plenty of players that didn't break into the league until their mid 20s and became solid NHLers. And I'm not even saying that Thompson will be one of those players, but his play this preseason has certainly been closer to that of a solid NHL player than that of Holtz.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

The inference is that the "Holtz has to play in a top 6 role to be effective" talk is just a lame excuse for his poor overall play. There's no shortage of young promising players that started in the bottom 6 early in their career and worked their way up the lineup with good play. If Holtz was a net positive player they're should be no problem with him playing a 3rd line role.

I couldn't disagree more with your 2nd point. He's scored two goals and made a good pass or two but anytime he's had the puck on his stick he has constantly made rushed decisions and shows very little composure with the puck. when he doesn't have space in the offensive zone he's been a net negative.

There's plenty of players that didn't break into the league until their mid 20s and became solid NHLers. And I'm not even saying that Thompson will be one of those players, but his play this preseason has certainly been closer to that of a solid NHL player than that of Holtz.

I've brought this up multiple times before on here, but Holtz isnt that player. He isnt the Mercer or the Henrique that is going to play the tough 4th line minutes and work his way up. That isn't him. Whether you or I like that or not is a different question, but those are just the facts.

Every player is different. You need to put each player in the right situation to succeed. Putting Holtz on the 4th line with Mike McLeod for 10 minutes a night is not going to get him to be the player we need him to be. It sounds liek you have your mine made up about this player already though, so we can just leave it here since you aren't going to change your mind.

yes, there are "plenty of players" (I guess)? that don't break into the league until their mid 20s. However, it is very, very rare that players who aren't legitimate NHLers by this age ever become anything. I think its more likely Tyce is a AAAA tweener that is going to be on waivers a few times than he ever becomes anything.

 

[Lou Bloom]

I just don’t agree, whatsoever, that Holtz has looked bad individually, or that the line looked bad the last time they played. They didn’t play that well this game — oh well. It’s still very clear that his skating has improved considerably, one of the major criticisms of his game.



This isn’t a player that needs to drive play, he needs to get to scoring areas and finish. If that line stays together, that’s two puck dominant play drivers. The biggest problem in his short stint last year was his inability to generate shots.

Foote has looked slow and pedestrian this preseason, I’m not quite sure what you’ve been watching. What has Holtz done to be ahead of these guys? Be considerably more talented and productive in the AHL.

I'm not expecting Holtz to be a play driver, I'm expecting him to at least be able to handle the puck and make simple smart plays with and without the puck which he hasn't shown the ability to do against NHL level competition. Nothing about his play says he should be playing with Nico and Timo above the likes of Mercer, Toffoli or Palat.

I'm not even high on Nolan Foote, I just think he's shown more composure and a better baseline of overall play than Holtz has shown. And his AHL numbers are immaterial to who's the better NHL player.

 

[R8Devs]

I'm not expecting Holtz to be a play driver, I'm expecting him to at least be able to handle the puck and make simple smart plays with and without the puck which he hasn't shown the ability to do against NHL level competition. Nothing about his play says he should be playing with Nico and Timo above the likes of Mercer, Toffoli or Palat.

I'm not even high on Nolan Foote, I just think he's shown more composure and a better baseline of overall play than Holtz has shown. And his AHL numbers are immaterial to who's the better NHL player.

its spreading the talent throughout the top 9. they are going to get similar minutes 5v5 anyway and for certain d-zone situations you can swap Holtz out so idk why you are saying he's playing above them. Vegas had Brett Howden playing with Mark Stone in the playoffs last year when they could easily have put Reilly Smith there but doing that allowed them to have a much stronger top 9.

 

[BostonDevil]

Yikes! We're comparing Holtz to Thompson? Oh boy that's not a good sign.

 

[Lou Bloom]

I've brought this up multiple times before on here, but Holtz isnt that player. He isnt the Mercer or the Henrique that is going to play the tough 4th line minutes and work his way up. That isn't him. Whether you or I like that or not is a different question, but those are just the facts.

Every player is different. You need to put each player in the right situation to succeed. Putting Holtz on the 4th line with Mike McLeod for 10 minutes a night is not going to get him to be the player we need him to be. It sounds liek you have your mine made up about this player already though, so we can just leave it here since you aren't going to change your mind.

yes, there are "plenty of players" (I guess)? that don't break into the league until their mid 20s. However, it is very, very rare that players who aren't legitimate NHLers by this age ever become anything. I think its more likely Tyce is a AAAA tweener that is going to be on waivers a few times than he ever becomes anything.

You keep bringing up this false dichotomy that the only two options for Holtz is 4th line grinder or Top 6. Jesper Bratt played a middle six role for multiple seasons and was still clearly a positive player on the ice, Jordan Kyrou wasn't immediately given a top 6 role, Jack Quinn put up 37 points in a 3rd line role in Buffalo this past season. If you're a good player you're capable of impacting the game anywhere in the lineup. If Holtz was playing good hockey the Devils' would have found a spot in the lineup for him, Top 6 or not.

And what are the odds of top 10 picks yet to make an everyday role in the NHL prior to their D+4 season becoming productive players? If we're going to criticize Thompson for his age and not his play, why wouldn't we use that same logic to criticize Holtz's chances of becoming a productive player?

 

[Lou Bloom]

its spreading the talent throughout the top 9. they are going to get similar minutes 5v5 anyway and for certain d-zone situations you can swap Holtz out so idk why you are saying he's playing above them. Vegas had Brett Howden playing with Mark Stone in the playoffs last year when they could easily have put Reilly Smith there but doing that allowed them to have a much stronger top 9.

There's a big difference between a player like Howden that's good defensively and will do the dirty work for your star players and a player like Holtz. All you're doing by playing Holtz alongside Hughes or Hischier is making their jobs harder.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

You keep bringing up this false dichotomy that the only two options for Holtz is 4th line grinder or Top 6. Jesper Bratt played a middle six role for multiple seasons and was still clearly a positive player on the ice, Jordan Kyrou wasn't immediately given a top 6 role, Jack Quinn put up 37 points in a 3rd line role in Buffalo this past season. If you're a good player you're capable of impacting the game anywhere in the lineup. If Holtz was playing good hockey the Devils' would have found a spot in the lineup for him, Top 6 or not.

And what are the odds of top 10 picks yet to make an everyday role in the NHL prior to their D+4 season becoming productive players? If we're going to criticize Thompson for his age and not his play, why wouldn't we use that same logic to criticize Holtz's chances of becoming a productive player?

And you keep bringing up this false “top 6” or bust scenario. We clearly have a top 9 and 4th line build on this team. The third line will have Palat and Haula on it, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with Holtz being there.

He will be getting a chance and Tyce Thompson will not be playing over him. Nor should he.

 

[R8Devs]

There's a big difference between a player like Howden that's good defensively and will do the dirty work for your star players and a player like Holtz. All you're doing by playing Holtz alongside Hughes or Hischier is making their jobs harder.

The role that Howden and Holtz play on lines would be different -- the point was about spreading the talent and that he's not playing above anybody. The team is built for a top 9 and 4th line with specialists/defensive zone starts. We'll see how the actual regular season lineups go bc pre-season is one thing and Lindy changes lines a decent amount like any other coach but even last season there were times when they had Meier playing with guys like Boqvist on the '3rd line.'

 

[Lou Bloom]

And you keep bringing up this false “top 6” or bust scenario. We clearly have a top 9 and 4th line build on this team. The third line will have Palat and Haula on it, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with Holtz being there.

He will be getting a chance and Tyce Thompson will not be playing over him. Nor should he.

Where did I ever imply a "Top 6 or bust scenario? I clearly said that good players can and should play anywhere in the lineup whether top 6 or bottom 6. I even went into the offseason with the hope that Holtz would win that 3rd line role alongside Haula and Palat and bring some more scoring potential to that line, but nothing from his play has shown me he deserves an NHL role.

Apart from justifying his draft position I don't see a good reason to have that set in stone position that Thompson shouldn't get a chance to win a roster spot. Isn't the whole point of pre-season and training camp to have players fight it out for those last couple roster spots. Seems like you have this pre-determined position that Holtz was going to be on the NHL roster no matter what.

 

[Bleedred]

@Bleedred - My goal this season is to give you a "thumbs up" for every goal that you post. Is there any way we can track this?

I try to do one for every goal we score, but sometimes I have a computer malfunction (happened a ton tonight and had to go my phone) or maybe I’m on the phone or have something else going on. That doesn’t happen often during Devils games, but it has before.

I’m struggling to even post on the forum on my computer anymore because the site doesn’t work on google anymore (once in a while it does for a few days before not working again) and Mozilla and the other browsers blow like you would not believe. Shit starts freezing mid post and I’m reaching for my phone to finish the post because of how bad it’s lagging.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Missed the game but considering the lineup we iced and looking at the box score, seems like this one was a success.

 

[Lou Bloom]

The role that Howden and Holtz play on lines would be different -- the point was about spreading the talent and that he's not playing above anybody. The team is built for a top 9 and 4th line with specialists/defensive zone starts. We'll see how the actual regular season lineups go bc pre-season is one thing and Lindy changes lines a decent amount like any other coach but even last season there were times when they had Meier playing with guys like Boqvist on the '3rd line.'

I understand the concept of spreading around, and don't even disagree with the idea. The problem is that you still need to think about line synergy and how those players will interact and I don't see how Holtz's current game would mesh well with our stars, apart from people only focusing on his shot and not the entirety of his game.

I also think it's a bit of a pointless argument because you could just make the same argument for Nathan Bastian or Tomas Nosek or Curtis Lazar. The whole point is that I don't think Holtz's current level of play is NHL caliber and you'd just be exasperating the issue by playing him in a top 6 role.

 

[Offseason Champs]

Yikes! We're comparing Holtz to Thompson? Oh boy that's not a good sign.

Are we? Or are some of us doing that. Some people definitely mid season form already for sure

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Where did I ever imply a "Top 6 or bust scenario? I clearly said that good players can and should play anywhere in the lineup whether top 6 or bottom 6. I even went into the offseason with the hope that Holtz would win that 3rd line role alongside Haula and Palat and bring some more scoring potential to that line, but nothing from his play has shown me he deserves an NHL role.

Apart from justifying his draft position I don't see a good reason to have that set in stone position that Thompson shouldn't get a chance to win a roster spot. Isn't the whole point of pre-season and training camp to have players fight it out for those last couple roster spots. Seems like you have this pre-determined position that Holtz was going to be on the NHL roster no matter what.

There is one top 9 spot open. It will not be filled by Tyce Thompson, who didn’t even put together a good season as a top 9 AHLer as a 23 year old. He seems to be very injury prone anyway.

You’re relentlessly shitting on the guy when he scored a goal, his 2nd in as many games. Who’s the one with preconceived notions clouding their judgement?

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

found a neat Youtube channel that posted the highlights



if Holtz can get open and pot one like that 20-30 times this year thatd be awesome and exactly what we need from him!

 

[R8Devs]

I understand the concept of spreading around, and don't even disagree with the idea. The problem is that you still need to think about line synergy and how those players will interact and I don't see how Holtz's current game would mesh well with our stars, apart from people only focusing on his shot and not the entirety of his game.

I also think it's a bit of a pointless argument because you could just make the same argument for Nathan Bastian or Tomas Nosek or Curtis Lazar. The whole point is that I don't think Holtz's current level of play is NHL caliber and you'd just be exasperating the issue by playing him in a top 6 role.

Not really, those guys don't offer the offensive potential that Holtz does in a complementary role. And if Holtz is able to play within the top 9 it would do a lot for the Devils -- he has one more ELC year after this and then he's an RFA without arb rights so that'd be huge for the Devils who are going to be tight against the cap in the coming years. I'm not saying it's a given he'll be a success in a top 9 role as the most important part will be the regular season but it's worth trying to figure out if he can be.

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

Cam Atkinson looks like Dr Zaius

 

[Aurinko]

found a neat Youtube channel that posted the highlights



if Holtz can get open and pot one like that 20-30 times this year thatd be awesome and exactly what we need from him!

While Holtz goal is another clean performance, I know nothing of his overall game.

What goes to Haula, he should/will have monster season if he plays the whole year healthy with Dawgson. Unlike other young top tier players, Mercer has low ego and godly versatile skillset.

 

[Camille the Eel]

At least a nice clean and effortless finish by Holtz on that chance. Which is a talent and isn’t easy to do. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve seen guys get wide open looks in front like that and somehow not finish (Michael McLeod), I could probably buy a good beater pickup truck. We arguably lost games to St. Louis and Dallas last year to mention just a couple when chances like that weren’t finished.

Based on nothing but a single highlight of course. But with the ability efficiently to finish chances like that, one can carve out a solid career in the NHL.

 

[BurntToast]

Wild.

Preseason games = Prospect basing!

 

[VoidCreature]

I'm not sure where this hit job on Holtz came from. I thought he showed good chemistry with Meier and made some nice plays today.

 

[ninetyeight]

If hb is the only one who likes your posts you might be on the wrong side of the argument

Mercer is no doubt way better and more multi-dimensional player than Holtz, but that doesn't mean he should play top6 over him. This isn't ea sports, we don't just build lines from the best player to the worst. It's all about purpose and chemistry. If we can roll 3 competetive lines on more or less same icetime, this team is going to dominate. Holtz doesn't have to be a 2way monster with Nico and Timo. His skillset is going to shine way more with these two than with Palat and Haula. While on the other hand Palat Haula and Mercer will be a killer all around pressure line if they keep playing like they have this training camp / preseason.

 

[britdevil]

Line combinations change so much throughout an 82 game season.

I'm really not worried about who slots where to start the season...

Bed wetting about Mercer being on the "third line" in September is pinnacle HF Devils.

Holtz has put in the work clearly and has produced in the games he's played and is having a good camp too. Ask the blue few across the river if they would take that from their 1st overall right now, they'd snap your hand off.