Devils 2019-20 preseason thread (team discussion, news and notes) II

[Oneiro]

It's tough to view this team as having a fourth line. The game is getting to the point where checking lines are going the way of the stay at home defensemen, if they haven't already. I see it as a good thing, shaving off excess minutes for your scorers and running a balanced team, built around offense instead of defense this time.

You can argue about management's philosophy in building the roster, but it's clear that they want to hang onto the puck like an even more modern Blackhawks. It's those moments where they don't have the puck where you've got to worry. Containing those mini-catastrophes will be what makes or breaks this season.

This roster is really an experiment in putting creativity, skill and skating above everything else. It could blow up in a big way.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I agree with this somewhat...fit is extremely important, that goes to "better" doesn't it?

But I think putting a skilled young player on the 4th line is a major mistake...that's the line that is going to see limited minutes, when benches get shortened they are the first to sit, he will be playing with less skilled players and be forced to play a style that might not work for him and he have to play more in the trenches from the 4th line....why set the kid up for failure?

I don’t think the Ducks were setting Palmieri up for failure by playing him 12-14 minutes a night. He produced well in a limited role, earned a larger role with a new team and has flourished.

 

[Devilswede]

I do believe that Shero has been involved in some trade talks and that a move could be made soon. I think he's looking for a way to get that LHD to play with Subban.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I do believe that Shero has been involved in some trade talks and that a move could be made soon. I think he's looking for a way to get that LHD to play with Subban.

Zacha on the move with McLeod/Maltsev replacing him?

 

[Blender]

I think this is one of those overblown hockey sayings. I just dont see it logically.

Maybe if if was 15 years ago, and there was hitting & fighting in hockey, but the game is not that anymore.

4th line needs to be reliable enough not to get scored against, preferably be quick so they can pressure whoever they are on against, and chip in some offense every once and a while. Long gone are the days where you put a couple fighters out there on your 4th line to go muck it up.

 

[Comparison Ford]

I would bet money that that bottom six would be ineffective. It's a force fit with the entire bottom 6 mismatched. Zajac brings nothing to players like Bratt and Boqvist...coleman would work anywhere but I am not sure he and Zacha is a fit...it never makes sense to blow up 3 lines to retrofit a single player.

not sure about this, from what i remember last year, zacha and coleman had some great chemistry. maybe it was just on the PK, but i think some of coleman and zachas best moments offensively were on the PK. can’t see the harm in trying that combo 5 on 5.

and in terms of boqvist-zajac-bratt, i think travis winning face offs for bratt and boqvist would be a huge boost for their 5 on 5 time in the zone, and bratt has proven to be a reliable defensive player. that may be the best situation for Boqvist to succeed in. he will get 2nd PP minutes for sure and can ease into his NHL minutes without being on the 4th line.

i guess in that case Wood would be the 4th line RWer, which i don’t think will be a major issue.

 

[JimEIV]

I think this is one of those overblown hockey sayings. I just dont see it logically.

Maybe if if was 15 years ago, and there was hitting & fighting in hockey, but the game is not that anymore.

This is just not the reality of the situation...they will play 9 minutes to 12 minutes a night and playing with Wood and Zacha would require a completely different style of play than playing with Hughes and Bratt....that is just the reality.

You are going to take a guy and stick him with two grinders for 10 minutes a night and wonder why he isn't producing... it's not a good situation and we have seen that scenario played out before.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

This is just not the reality of the situation...they will play 9 minutes to 12 minutes a night and playing with Wood and Zacha would require a completely different style of play than playing with Hughes and Bratt....that is just the reality.

You are going to take a guy and stick him with two grinders for 10 minutes a night and wonder why he isn't producing... it's not a good situation and we have seen that scenario played out before.

The reality is that you’re forgetting the power play exists. Lines can always be shifted too, I have no idea how it shakes out. He has earned a spot on the roster, he will be on the roster.

 

[JimEIV]

I don’t think the Ducks were setting Palmieri up for failure by playing him 12-14 minutes a night. He produced well in a limited role, earned a larger role with a new team and has flourished.

I do.

 

[Hisch13r]

I do.

If he was set up for "failure" then he would've failed. He didn't fail and is a 50+ pt, 30 goal, strong defensive player. He was a great AHLer at 20/21 and had nothing left to learn there. He had to play in the NHL

 

[MartyOwns]

it’s not just the 4th line minutes thing with boqvist, it’s the situational play as well. i can’t seriously see him in either powerplay group unless we have injuries. he won’t be out there in the last minute to tie the game. etc etc. that sort of development will not be available in NJ this year, and it could be the last piece of the puzzle to making him a legitimate top line winger...i really don’t want to f*** it up.

we are loaded up front, with talented forwards ready to be called up as needed from binghamton. i can’t seriously see a downside to letting boqvist fully develop in sweden for another year, being an all-situations leader on his team

 

[Hisch13r]

it’s not just the 4th line minutes thing with boqvist, it’s the situational play as well. i can’t seriously see him in either powerplay group unless we have injuries. he won’t be out there in the last minute to tie the game. etc etc. that sort of development will not be available in NJ this year, and it could be the last piece of the puzzle to making him a legitimate top line winger...i really don’t want to **** it up.

we are loaded up front, with talented forwards ready to be called up as needed from binghamton. i can’t seriously see a downside to letting boqvist fully develop in sweden for another year, being an all-situations leader on his team

I can't seriously see a downside to starting him in the NHL and seeing how it goes. It's not like if he starts here he will be trapped on the 4th line for the whole year (if that is even where he starts). Numerous things could happen that push higher up in the lineup. If a few weeks to a month pass and it doesn't work then you can still send him to Sweden. Not trying him in the NHL with how well he's player is a major missed opportunity

 

[JimEIV]

If he was set up for "failure" then he would've failed. He didn't fail and is a 50+ pt, 30 goal, strong defensive player. He was a great AHLer at 20/21 and had nothing left to learn there. He had to play in the NHL

He toiled for 5 years until Perry got hurt and he had an opportunity to play in the top 6.

 

[Hisch13r]

He toiled for 5 years until Perry got hurt and he had an opportunity to play in the top 6.

21 pts in 42 games, 31 pts in 71 games then 29 pts in 57 games in Anaheim. He comes here and is a 50+ pt 30 goal guy. If those years in Anaheim set him up for failure then he wouldn't have succeeded

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

More likely.

Hall-Nico-Palms
Gusev-Hughes-Simmonds
Boqvist-Zajac-Bratt
Coleman-Zacha-xxx

Will be easier to shelter the Hughes like since the Zajac line is no slouch offensively.

This is also how I see it.

Zajac provides defensive security for the Swedes, and Simmonds serves as the garbageman for Gusev/Jack.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

He toiled for 5 years until Perry got hurt and he had an opportunity to play in the top 6.

You can skip the first 2-3 years that aren’t at all applicable to Boqvist’s situation. Look at he was handled starting in 2013 when he became an NHL regular. That’s a fine way to develop a player and clearly worked.

 

[MartyOwns]

If a few weeks to a month pass and it doesn't work then you can still send him to Sweden.

wouldn’t be the worst thing that could happen, but it does seem disruptive and potentially harmful to confidence

Not trying him in the NHL with how well he's player is a major missed opportunity

oh come on lol, now him not getting 4th line minutes is a ‘major missed opportunity’?

 

[Hisch13r]

wouldn’t be the worst thing that could happen, but it does seem disruptive and potentially harmful to confidence



oh come on lol, now him not getting 4th line minutes is a ‘major missed opportunity’?

Seriously how hard is it for people to comprehend that just because you play on the 4th line day one that doesn't mean you will stay there all year. It's been brought up multiple times and people just default to "4th line" instead of realizing that's not how things work. Why are you acting like your lineup is locked from game 1 to 82? Why are you acting like injuries don't happen, lines don't get shuffled, he can't impress and get moved up?

 

[Camille the Eel]

It's tough to view this team as having a fourth line. The game is getting to the point where checking lines are going the way of the stay at home defensemen, if they haven't already. I see it as a good thing, shaving off excess minutes for your scorers and running a balanced team, built around offense instead of defense this time.

You can argue about management's philosophy in building the roster, but it's clear that they want to hang onto the puck like an even more modern Blackhawks. It's those moments where they don't have the puck where you've got to worry. Containing those mini-catastrophes will be what makes or breaks this season.

This roster is really an experiment in putting creativity, skill and skating above everything else. It could blow up in a big way.

Boston had great success last year with their line that had Wagner and Kurali on it. They called it a fourth line but who was counting. A big, fast, physical ensemble that would change the pace of the game, put the other team on their heels and play in the offensive end.

They would put them out first shift after scoring or being scored on. (I think Wagner’s being out hurt them badly in the finals).

The Isles did the same thing with Czikas, Martin and Clutterbuck.

I was hoping (am hoping) that we can find a way to ice a similar unit but I don’t quite see the personnel. Still in the interests of balance on our team I wish we could do so.

 

[Blender]

The entire reason we traded what we did for Palmieri is because he was underplayed there, but all of his underlying stats were great and showed that he would produce with more minutes. Of course we traded for him, played him more, and he continued to produce at the same rate he did in Anaheim, but with higher totals because of more minutes.

Anaheim in no way set Palmieri up for failure, that's laughable. Anaheim had a choice to either keep him and play him more, or trade him for what they could, and they chose to trade him. They knew he was a good player.

 

[MartyOwns]

Seriously how hard is it for people to comprehend that just because you play on the 4th line day one that doesn't mean you will stay there all year. It's been brought up multiple times and people just default to "4th line" instead of realizing that's not how things work. Why are you acting like your lineup is locked from game 1 to 82? Why are you acting like injuries don't happen, lines don't get shuffled, he can't impress and get moved up?

there are plenty of guys who aren’t on such restricted contracts that can be called up in case of injury.

we have a very, very good group of forwards, with some great options (bastian, seney, anderson, mcleod, should i keep going?) available as needed. there is really no reason good enough that i’ve seen to blow our load with boqvist out of camp

 

[Missionhockey]

I think I like
Hall Nico Bratt
Gusev Hughes Palmieri
Coleman Zajac Simmonds
Wood Zacha and honestly I would like Bastian on this wing.

I don't think Wood over Boqvist is a good idea even if it is on the fourth line. Wood might be better suited for the 4th line but our track record for health has not been spectacular so I would keep Boqvist for depth, even if he does have to start on the 4th line.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I do believe that Shero has been involved in some trade talks and that a move could be made soon. I think he's looking for a way to get that LHD to play with Subban.

Curious. I wonder who he could be looking at.

 

[JimEIV]

I don't think Wood over Boqvist is a good idea even if it is on the fourth line. Wood might be better suited for the 4th line but our track record for health has not been spectacular so I would keep Boqvist for depth, even if he does have to start on the 4th line.

So you want to sit a guy who by your own statement is better suited for the job in case there is an injury? That makes even less sense to me.

 

[Oneiro]

Yeah...Wonder if it's a Bouwmeester, Edmundson, Scandella-type. Expiring deal for a bigger guy.