Development of Russians in CHL v KHL

[DonskoiDonscored]

I really think that Russia should focus on resolving issues with paying players on time in their top league (contraction) before they start forcing players to stay there.

 

[Daximus]

Yeah screw those players for wanting to get ready to play in the best league in the world.

How dare they prepare for NA hockey by playing in NA? Treasonous fools.

The players aren't being ruined by going to the CHL and then underwhelming in the NHL, they're just getting exposed by playing in the best league against the best players. Either they're good enough or they aren't. If the CHL is able to produce elite players so often obviously it's not the league that's the issue. Players who come over and can't cut it in the NHL we're going to fail either way, regardless of whether they stayed in Russia or not.

What you should be mad about is that the KHL able to keep the best players. Thats the real issue for Russian fans and players.

I think is what it ultimately comes down to even though some will never admit it. They preach that its all about individualistic self-serving attitudes like they aren't and their favourite teams aren't the ones that actually benefit by keeping players. This is all a ploy for the KHL to get bigger and finally challenge the NHL rather than losing all of their players before they hit their primes.

 

[Striiker]

I really think that Russia should focus on resolving issues with paying players on time in their top league (contraction) before they start forcing players to stay there.

That fact that they're considering trying to trap players shows the real issue. If your league needs to trap players then obviously it's not good enough to deserve those players.

 

[Fantomas]

If the Russian mentality on it was different then Russians would actually be doing it more often. Instead they are leaving so they obviously could give a crap about the community that nurtured them.

Then older Russians will all come over and only sign with top teams for top dollar and some will still be terrible at adjusting and head home with their tails between their legs. And everyone will realise that it's really just a waste of time to attempt it.

I hope more young Russians leave even earlier now just to say **** you to the system that they supposedly feel they should give back too.

Sure, why even try to build a healthy and functioning hockey culture when you can just let go of your finest talents for cheap bucks.

You have made your view clear and I strongly disagree.

 

[Daximus]

I really think that Russia should focus on resolving issues with paying players on time in their top league (contraction) before they start forcing players to stay there.

But it's for the good of the community don't you know?

In new Soviet Russia you have to pay the team to play.

 

[Fantomas]

I really think that Russia should focus on resolving issues with paying players on time in their top league (contraction) before they start forcing players to stay there.

This is a fair point. It would be a shame if they did one thing and not the other.

 

[Daximus]

Sure, why even try to build a healthy and functioning hockey culture when you can just let go of your finest talents for cheap bucks.

You have made your view clear and I strongly disagree.

cheap bucks? If they are good they will get paid far more in the NHL. The top guys get what like $5 mill after conversion in the KHL?
Average good players can make that in the NHL.

Or are you talking about the country itself needs to be paid for their players? If so that is ridiculous. The KHL can't even pay their own guys right now.

 

[Fantomas]

cheap bucks? If they are good they will get paid far more in the NHL. The top guys get what like $5 mill after conversion in the KHL?
Average good players can make that in the NHL.

Or are you talking about the country itself needs to be paid for their players? If so that is ridiculous.

Do you know what a transfer agreement is?

The KHL can't even pay their own guys right now.

Do not exaggerate. Some smaller teams have had financial problems.

I have been critical of KHL expansion, but these existing problems do not defeat the idea of what is being talked about here.

 

[Daximus]

Do you know what a transfer agreement is?

I am and I'm aware that European teams have been wanting more and more money.
Sounds like individualistic western monetary greed to me.

"All of our players are leaving the country so they can go make more money and have a better life for themselves."

"Well we should be getting paid too!"

It's actually quite funny. Of course your government is going to blame western culture for making their athletes greedy when all they care about is getting money for them.

 

[Fantomas]

Of course your government is going to blame western culture for making their athletes greedy when all they care about is getting money for them.

Actually, this is opposite of what is happening. This legislation would eliminate the acquisition of quick and easy money from the NHL and instead invest into sustainable development of the Russian hockey system.

 

[Daximus]

Actually, this is opposite of what is happening. This legislation would eliminate the acquisition of quick and easy money from the NHL and instead invest into sustainable development of the Russian hockey system.

By forcing their players to remain there against their will. Like I said what happens if they leave anyways? Jailtime? Public execution? Electric chair?

All this legislation does is force players to sign long contracts giving them very little negotiation rights not that they really have any in Russia anyways.

 

[Fantomas]

By forcing their players to remain there against their will. Like I said what happens if they leave anyways? Jailtime? Public execution? Electric chair?

Something much less dystopian. Lack of access to the league and national team in all likelihood.

It would be a ballsy move by Russia. If a really talented player leaves in the middle of the contract they would have to stick to their guns.

All this legislation does is force players to sign long contracts giving them very little negotiation rights not that they really have any in Russia anyways.

You are mostly making things up.

 

[Daximus]

Something much less dystopian. Lack of access to the league and national team in all likelihood.

It would be a ballsy move by Russia. If a really talented player leaves in the middle of the contract they would have to stick to their guns.

You are mostly making things up.

It will probably backfire on them. More players will leave when younger. The CHL and NA minor leagues will be filled with Russians. I almost hope they do pass this legislation. Will be nice to see even more Russians coming to NA to play.

 

[Fantomas]

It will probably backfire on them. More players will leave when younger. The CHL and NA minor leagues will be filled with Russians. I almost hope they do pass this legislation. Will be nice to see even more Russians coming to NA to play.

We'll see.

 

[Caser]

Recently I've read about an idea to reintroduce mandatory U18/U20 players in KHL team line-ups, which would make teams like Ak Bars work much harder to sign their talented players and also provide them conditions for development. It makes sense I think - why not make KHL teams to do all the work instead of applying restrictions of any kind.

 

[Fantomas]

Recently I've read about an idea to reintroduce mandatory U18/U20 players in KHL team line-ups, which would make teams like Ak Bars work much harder to sign their talented players and also provide them conditions for development. It makes sense I think - why not make KHL teams to do all the work instead of applying restrictions of any kind.

One would hope that efforts made towards the welfare of players do not stop simply because discussed restrictions are enforced.

 

[Zine]

Yeah screw those players for wanting to get ready to play in the best league in the world.

How dare they prepare for NA hockey by playing in NA? Treasonous fools.

The players aren't being ruined by going to the CHL and then underwhelming in the NHL, they're just getting exposed by playing in the best league against the best players. Either they're good enough or they aren't. If the CHL is able to produce elite players so often obviously it's not the league that's the issue. Players who come over and can't cut it in the NHL we're going to fail either way, regardless of whether they stayed in Russia or not.

What you should be mad about is that the KHL able to keep the best players. Thats the real issue for Russian fans and players.

Nonsense.

Most Russian fans have no issue with our players going to the NHL. The issue is with players leaving too early; and that's because most players who leave for the CHL end up never fulfilling the potential they showed in Russia.
If there was a viable track-record of our players properly developing abroad, I can't think of a Russian hockey fan who wouldn't be in favor of our guys leaving home early.

 

[Zine]

People need to realize that (unlike in North America) players and families get a financial free ride in Russia. Once a kid turns 10 years old, his family pays nothing in development costs. $0.

My solution:
If a kid wants to enter into a hockey school (and receive all the financial benefits), he (his family) needs to sign a long-term contract stipulating he will stay in the Russian development system for X amount of years.
If, later on, the player (or family) decide he is better off developing elsewhere, it's fine..they can go abroad. However in order to terminate the contract, player (family) must reimburse the hockey school all accrued development costs.

Fair deal on both sides.

 

[finchster]

I think this whole "the CHL ruins Russian players" is all non-sense. You have a small sample size of players and the fact that fans overrate prospects. 10 out of 34 Russian players in the NHL were in the CHL. That's not to say I think Russian's aren't better off to develop at home, but I think some perspective is necessary.

 

[malkinfan]

What sucks for the players is that almost all players who left to the CHL before/in their draft year the past decade have failed and returned back to Russia, only to be bumped down in the organization, some guys never find their way back up. Lots of good examples of this but on an overall level were talking 100s of players. It can be said the new legislation is looking out for the players best interests based on historical evidence.

Away around the legislation is for teams to pay the agents a fee who are trying to take the good players over. Rather than focus on the players leaving, look at what is really driving the problem and address that - agents.

 

[Striiker]

Nonsense.

Most Russian fans have no issue with our players going to the NHL. The issue is with players leaving too early; and that's because most players who leave for the CHL end up never fulfilling the potential they showed in Russia.
If there was a viable track-record of our players properly developing abroad, I can't think of a Russian hockey fan who wouldn't be in favor of our guys leaving home early.

But how can you tell when they underwhelm due to changing leagues vs when they underwhelm because they just weren't that good? You just can't. I mean, in every developmental league in the world there's players who look great when they're young but never make it big.

 

[KarIgo87]

People need to realize that (unlike in North America) players and families get a financial free ride in Russia. Once a kid turns 10 years old, his family pays nothing in development costs. $0.

My solution:
If a kid wants to enter into a hockey school (and receive all the financial benefits), he (his family) needs to sign a long-term contract stipulating he will stay in the Russian development system for X amount of years.
If, later on, the player (or family) decide he is better off developing elsewhere, it's fine..they can go abroad. However in order to terminate the contract, player (family) must reimburse the hockey school all accrued development costs.

Fair deal on both sides.

Oh really? Go to kidshockey.ru and do some reading then. Hockey is very expensive sport and parents spend a lot of money to develop their kids, from additional exclusive trainings to going to all kinds of training camps in America and Europe. Of course, our club systems spend money on our talents too but in order to be noticed by them you need to work really hard and spend money yourself.

P.S. It's funny to read you, guys. One talking nonsense about Russian mentality and "giving back to community" (what community?), like hell it's not individualistic, it's not Soviet Union anymore. Another one talking about some delusional made up BS about jails and electric chairs, stereotypes are such stereotypes.

 

[Daximus]

Oh really? Go to kidshockey.ru and do some reading then. Hockey is very expensive sport and parents spend a lot of money to develop their kids, from additional exclusive trainings to going to all kinds of training camps in America and Europe. Of course, our club systems spend money on our talents too but in order to be noticed by them you need to work really hard and spend money yourself.

P.S. It's funny to read you, guys. One talking nonsense about Russian mentality and "giving back to community" (what community?), like hell it's not individualistic, it's not Soviet Union anymore. Another one talking about some delusional made up BS about jails and electric chairs, stereotypes are such stereotypes.

It was a joke hahaha or do you actually think I was being serious? Yes everyone in western culture thinks Russians will put their athletes to the electric chair if they don't comply.

 

[KarIgo87]

It was a joke hahaha or do you actually think I was being serious? Yes everyone in western culture thinks Russians will put their athletes to the electric chair if they don't comply.

I know it was a joke, but like they say in Russia "In every joke there's only part of joke, the rest is the truth". I don't want to get into argument about westerners' idea of Russia and Russian people, it's a waste of time. It's full of laughable assumptions, Soviet Union stereotypes and other made-up **** exaggerated by media mixed with truth. Just like ours about Western people I guess, only a bit more educated one.

 

[Daximus]

I know it was a joke, but like they say in Russia "In every joke there's only part of joke, the rest is the truth". I don't want to get into argument about westerners' idea of Russia and Russian people, it's a waste of time. It's full of laughable assumptions, Soviet Union stereotypes and other made-up **** exaggerated by media mixed with truth. Just like ours about Western people I guess, only a bit more educated one.

Yes of course the Russian view of Westerners is much more accurate and educated.

All we truly know about Russians is they absolutely love it here. We brainwash them with our McDonalds and Starbucks. Fatten them up and when they can't play in our leagues anymore we send them back to Russia fat and brainwashed. Ready at a moments notice to be our chubby hockey soldiers.