Post-Game Talk: Detroit 5, Toronto 2. EVERYONE CALM THE **** DOWN!

[AINEC*]

lol'd @ the thread title.

We should probably try practicing face-offs one of these days.

 

[thewave]

Wtf does Gardiner have to do? He's like our leading scorer and has been out best player. He has made mistakes but still. He's been great. Holy crap I can't believe this.

Carlyle is a good coach but seems to have problems with certain players, see Grabo who is already making a ruckus in WSH with some saying he should be on with Ovi.

Maybe Gards has to go somewhere as Lupul had to at one time to she'd the dark cloud overhead, that is Carlyle.

 

[Gallagbi]

Couldn't agree more, especially with how overrated he is around here.

Missing the ?

 

[happyaccident]

Randy's trying to set up a 3-way call with Nonis and Stan Bowman to work out a Kostka for Gardiner deal but Nonis has stopped listening to him. Speed and skill are not welcome in Randy's world.

 

[BIitz]

Missing the ?

No. Gardiner is extremely overrated. I don't understand why people are questioning a cup winning coach on this. He has a system and Gardiner makes terrible decisions way more often then he'd like.

Gardiners play without the puck in the PO is something we can't always expect.

 

[Future]

Missing the ?

He's serious. He's 'that' guy.

 

[Palmateer]

I will be done if Carlyle runs Jake out. I swear to God I'll be done. What in God's name is this!?!? This has to be a joke. Please tell me this is a joke. Our coach literally cannot be this brain dead stupid. Right?

You weren't around in the 80s.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

Wtf does Gardiner have to do? He's like our leading scorer and has been out best player. He has made mistakes but still. He's been great. Holy crap I can't believe this.

Call up Kostka and ask him what made Carlyle fall in love with him. Sheer thick headedness from the head coach right here.

Almost as bad as Ron Wilson's comments about "Nasty Habits"

 

[Gallagbi]

No. Gardiner is extremely overrated. I don't understand why people are questioning a cup winning coach on this. He has a system and Gardiner makes terrible decisions way more often then he'd like.

Gardiners play without the puck in the PO is something we can't always expect.

Because he mentioned Gardiner by name when he was one of the best d-men tonight and has been throughout the pre-season? That's the obvious answer.

It's great Carlyle has a cup and I think he's a good coach, but he's not perfect and does make mistakes. If he thinks Gardiner isn't playing well enough to be a regular on this blueline (I'd go as far to say top 3), then that's a big mistake.

Lupul's a good example of a Carlyle mistaking the quality of player he had. Coaches make mistakes, it happens, lets hope he can figure out how to make good use of Gardiner because the kid is clearly more talented than most of our blueline and easily one of our 6 most effective d-men.

 

[thewave]

You weren't around in the 80s.

History repeats itself! Why can't it go back a couple decades so we win a cup. We will just lose a possible future Norris contender lol.

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

Ok.. flame away at me for this..

But from whatever amount I saw tonight, I'd blame Gardiner for the 1st DRW goal. Him being soft on his man, and floating once he lost his man, was a direct cause of that one.

I haven't watched other part of the game; but I agree with Carlyle that Gardiner right now is not the one we saw in playoffs. Creativity is fine, but as a defenseman, defense is the first priority, and opposition gets more breakaways than I like when Gardiner is on ice.

Whether they score on breakaways is a different story, but a defenseman needs to avoid those breakaways, not make them happen.

"High risk, high reward" shouldn't be applied to Gardiner, or any other defenseman; especially when the coach is trying to enforce a defensive system. Leave the extra creativity part to our forwards.

 

[Crispy Crust]

No. Gardiner is extremely overrated. I don't understand why people are questioning a cup winning coach on this. He has a system and Gardiner makes terrible decisions way more often then he'd like.

Gardiners play without the puck in the PO is something we can't always expect.

Who cares if he won a cup with a stacked roster 6 ****ing years ago. The guy has made questionable coaching decisions since he was hired in March of last year. It's about time people start realizing that Randy Carlyle isn't that great of a coach. For **** sakes, he has a fetish for awful/mediocre players but guys who are actually good at the game of hockey don't "fit" his style of play.

 

[7even]

No. Gardiner is extremely overrated. I don't understand why people are questioning a cup winning coach on this. He has a system and Gardiner makes terrible decisions way more often then he'd like.

Gardiners play without the puck in the PO is something we can't always expect.

uh huhhh.

 

[thewave]

Ok.. flame away at me for this..

But from whatever amount I saw tonight, I'd blame Gardiner for the 1st DRW goal. Him being soft on his man, and floating once he lost his man, was a direct cause of that one.

I haven't watched other part of the game; but I agree with Carlyle that Gardiner right now is not the one we saw in playoffs. Creativity is fine, but as a defenseman, defense is the first priority, and opposition gets more breakaways than I like when Gardiner is on ice.

Whether they score on breakaways is a different story, but a defenseman needs to avoid those breakaways, not make them happen.

"High risk, high reward" shouldn't be applied to Gardiner, or any other defenseman; especially when the coach is trying to enforce a defensive system. Leave the extra creativity part to our forwards.

He could call anyone out on that team, Caryle is being a ***** plain and simple, he sure looks like he has hate for certain players. It's a problem, he I becoming a problem.

 

[BIitz]

Because he mentioned Gardiner by name when he was one of the best d-men tonight and has been throughout the pre-season? That's the obvious answer.

It's great Carlyle has a cup and I think he's a good coach, but he's not perfect and does make mistakes. If he thinks Gardiner isn't playing well enough to be a regular on this blueline (I'd go as far to say top 3), then that's a big mistake.

Lupul's a good example of a Carlyle mistaking the quality of player he had. Coaches make mistakes, it happens, lets hope he can figure out how to make good use of Gardiner because the kid is clearly more talented than most of our blueline and easily one of our 6 most effective d-men.

Is he playing as well as he was in the playoffs though? It's the pre season, why are people putting stock into this? All off season I heard that Gardiner was "going to take the next step forward" based off his playoff play. He looks exactly like the same Gardiner of 2 years ago. Sure he's good with the puck on his stick with room, but he still blows coverages way too often, makes poor reads, throws the puck away under pressure, and holds onto the puck in the offensive zone for two long.

I know he isn't perfect. But Carlyle has a winning system, which you can't question. He clearly see's Gardiner play sticking out and not working for his system. After a year and a bit, you'd think Gardiner would have adapted a more simply game at times. I still see Gardiner carry the puck into high traffic zones and turn the puck over.

Yes, Lupul is a good example. But there was a difference. One, Lupul was often injured and took the game, as well as fitness much less seriously back then. It's fairly obvious he wasn't the same player he was there that he is here, and while Carlyle never gave him the chance for top line minutes, it wasn't like he was playing phenomenally.

 

[snizzbone*]

No way Gardiner gets sent down since he'll have to pass through waivers...won't he?

Maybe people are just reading too much into Carlyle's comments. Maybe time running out is in reference to the regular season starting soon so he doesn't have much time left to find that Gardiner we saw in the playoffs.

That's exactly what he meant. Everyone is just flipping out for no good reason. Carlyle obviously knows how good Gardiner is, as evident by his playoffs last year.

 

[Turk Broda]

that reimer.. so hot right now

Hansel.

 

[KPower]

You weren't around in the 80s.

Just imagine if there was hfboards back then...priceless

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

He could call anyone out on that team, Caryle is being a ***** plain and simple, he sure looks like he has hate for certain players. It's a problem, he I becoming a problem.

His love for mediocre players like Holzer is definitely a different story. One of weaknesses for Carlyle is asset management. That ties up the GM too.

 

[BIitz]

Who cares if he won a cup with a stacked roster 6 ****ing years ago. The guy has made questionable coaching decisions since he was hired in March of last year. It's about time people start realizing that Randy Carlyle isn't that great of a coach. For **** sakes, he has a fetish for awful/mediocre players but guys who are actually good at the game of hockey don't "fit" his style of play.

The guy who took a lottery bound team to the playoffs isn't a good coach. Leafs nation has the same problem as Carlyle does, a hard on for average players. If he can win without Gardiner, why does he need him?

uh huhhh.

Beautiful counter argument.

 

[Rare Jewel]

uh huhhh.

Pretty much.


No one here saying he's a defensive stalwart, So I've got no clue where "overrated" is coming from.

 

[Pi]

Gardiner is easy to pick on right now. ELC player. You think if Dion had a garbage game..he would call him out? No

As with every other place, $$$ talks. It's the only reason why Komisarek played under Wilson over other players.

 

[wandering goat]

First period was good, but Detroit basically had their way with the Leafs after that point. We could get nothing done offensively while giving them too much room in the defensive zone. Better play a whole lot better tomorrow - I know it's just one game, and preseason at that, but considering how big our rivalry is going to be this season with HBO and the winter classic, I do not want this to become a one-sided affair.

 

[Gallagbi]

Is he playing as well as he was in the playoffs though? It's the pre season, why are people putting stock into this? All off season I heard that Gardiner was "going to take the next step forward" based off his playoff play. He looks exactly like the same Gardiner of 2 years ago. Sure he's good with the puck on his stick with room, but he still blows coverages way too often, makes poor reads, throws the puck away under pressure, and holds onto the puck in the offensive zone for two long.

I know he isn't perfect. But Carlyle has a winning system, which you can't question. He clearly see's Gardiner play sticking out and not working for his system. After a year and a bit, you'd think Gardiner would have adapted a more simply game at times. I still see Gardiner carry the puck into high traffic zones and turn the puck over.

Yes, Lupul is a good example. But there was a difference. One, Lupul was often injured and took the game, as well as fitness much less seriously back then. It's fairly obvious he wasn't the same player he was there that he is here, and while Carlyle never gave him the chance for top line minutes, it wasn't like he was playing phenomenally.

It's the "running out of time to get there" aspect that I question. Nobody is playing at the level they did in the playoffs, it's pre-season. He's clearly not the same as he was 2 seasons ago, he's much more willing to engage physically and he's more confident. That comes across pretty clearly watching these games.

As for Carlyle and his coaching, why can't you question his system? Do you think he's the best coach in the league? Is it the best system in the league? I don't think either are true and I doubt many would argue that. He mishandled the Lupul situation and has admitted that. He didn't give him the chance to play on the left side, he didn't think he was capable. He clearly is. Most of the training improvements came after the back surgery, while he was in Anaheim, so that point is kind've out the window.

 

[thewave]

Gardiner is easy to pick on right now. ELC player. You think if Dion had a garbage game..he would call him out? No

As with every other place, $$$ talks. It's the only reason why Komisarek played under Wilson over other players.

Then Carlyle has no integrity.