Defensively: Couturier vs Barkov

[anders and]

For now... looks like a lot of Euro fans and Panthers fans have voted..

It also looks like a lot of North-American fabs and Flyers fans have voted...

 

[steierwrass]

@HyPnOtiK Can you please provide some data about Couturier facing tougher minutes than Barkov? Its literally impossible as Barkov plays like half of the game and the line he plays on is every opponents number one target, very similar to MacKinnons line on Avs.

Only seen like 6-7 full games from Flyers this season, so my sample size is not really big but based on that I say Sasha, he has literally been a dominating force this season.

Thanks for asking that. I have read that "facing much tougher minutes" about million times this season. It looks 100% fan boy argument, when it literally shows that you don't know anything about other player.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

I refuse to believe this type of comparison isn't anything more than splitting hairs. There's so much that goes to defense, you could even argue certain offensive plays are good defense.

Watching them both play they're solid. It's hard to find any hard evidence who would be the better defensive player. And even if there is something slight, in the big picture it's quite insignificant.

So i'll just go with even.

 

[FinlandPanther]

I think you're a bigger troll than Sasso, I just never respond to your nonsense, first and last time

Well I mean if proving you wrong gets you mad. Have a good one and think about it.

 

[Appleyard]

I mean, the purely defensive statistics at 5v5 would indicate that Couturier is the better purely defensive player.

 

[thomast]

Barkov is top of the league in induvidual stats just like Bergeron has been past years. That includes Defensive plays(leads the NHL), shorthanded goals(Leads the NHL, defensive zone faceoffs (2nd most faceoffs and 10th in FO%), blocked shots(25th in NHL), Takeaways (6th in NHL). Couturier has better corsi stats but he plays with Giroux who was a center and shut down Crosby few years ago at playoffs. Giroux takes some of the defensive zone FOs especially weak side FOs for Couturier. Barkov is top 5 in the league with Dadonov and Bjugstad(who looked like AHL player before getting icetime with Barkov). I’d rather pick a guy who thrives in team stats with worse line mates and has elite induvidual stats to back it up.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I thought Barkov was winning Selke this season.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Voted Barkov because tails.

 

[Plural]

I think they're close. Couturier seems to have better statistical argument for purely defensive play. I do think Barkov being the focal point both offensively and defensively for his team makes his defensive effort more impressive. When you are your teams best and most important player and trusted to carry the teams offense it's superbly impressive to be able to execute defensive side of the game on elite level. Factoring in the roles, I voted Barkov. But wouldn't jump on anyone voting Couturier either.

 

[BB88]

I mean, the purely defensive statistics at 5v5 would indicate that Couturier is the better purely defensive player.

Like defensive plays?
Which are advantage Barkov.

 

[Arizonan God]

Barkov.

 

[Binister]

Defensively? It's pretty Clearly Couturier.

Poll would be closer if it was overall

51-30 to Barkov... Not kinda close.

For now... looks like a lot of Euro fans and Panthers fans have voted.. once the numbers start getting compared it'll be clear, despite the votes, which. I'm confident will be in Couturier favor even though he's not as popular. Hard to argue with tangible evidence

Oh wow... Some American fans and Flyers fans have voted...

Oh and I like to pick the guy who is the force and best player on his team. Makes his team mates look better and be relied on.

 

[Ace of Hades]

For now... looks like a lot of Euro fans and Panthers fans have voted.. once the numbers start getting compared it'll be clear, despite the votes, which. I'm confident will be in Couturier favor even though he's not as popular. Hard to argue with tangible evidence

Hows that going for you now?

 

[Appleyard]

Like defensive plays?
Which are advantage Barkov.

CA/60: 51.18 vs 56.77
CA Rel/60: -5.41 vs -3.31

ExGA/60: 2.16 vs 2.41
ExGA Rel/60: -0.08 vs -0.09

Couturier fares better in 3/4, with the final one a wash.

And they play very similar minutes... Couturier has tougher opposition, Barkov 3% less Offensive ZSR:

ZSR: 43% vs 40%
QoC Corsi: 50.16 vs 49.9
QoC TOI: 29.75 vs 29.67

They play a different style of defensive hockey (not dissimilar to say the difference between Datsyuk and Bergeron... Datsyuk more "active") but this season at least the indications are that Couturier has had more of an impact when on ice.

 

[steierwrass]

Couturier has tougher opposition,

Can you link me something about this. Just want to see. I know, that Barkov plays against top lines every night home. And most nights away.

 

[mja]

I refuse to believe this type of comparison isn't anything more than splitting hairs. There's so much that goes to defense, you could even argue certain offensive plays are good defense.

Watching them both play they're solid. It's hard to find any hard evidence who would be the better defensive player. And even if there is something slight, in the big picture it's quite insignificant.

So i'll just go with even.

I mean, I voted Couturier, but all of this.

 

[Rebels57]

Couturier is better defensively than Barkov by every metric there is to compare the two, but the HF thirst for Barkov is real.

Im convinced most of HF has a poster of Barkov on the ceiling above their bunk-bed.

 

[1865]

Takeaways are always a misleading stat i find. It's hard to exceed at them if you pretty much have the puck all the time like Couturier does.

 

[Beezeral]

Takeaways are always a misleading stat i find. It's hard to exceed at them if you pretty much have the puck all the time like Couturier does.

I mean if you watch Barkov at all, he has the puck all the time as well. Don’t know how you came to this belief.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Couturier is an irrelevant player playing a career year.

 

[AdamParrot]

Barkov is overally better player.
But in only defense? Are you sure? Couts is better AINEC.

 

[1865]

I mean if you watch Barkov at all, he has the puck all the time as well. Don’t know how you came to this belief.

Ironically, this comes across too defensively. All I'm saying is that takeaways aren't that reliable. Couturier's real strength lies in the fact that he doesn't need to retrieve the puck as often as others.

This isn't a sleight on Barkov at all. It's just a continuation of Couturier being the most under-rated defensive player in the league.

 

[FlaPanthers11]

Let's check in on the eye test.



Lol

 

[Juicy Pop]

You asked defense and I gave you defense, so you turn into offense?

There's nothing Couts is better than Barkov at offensively.

You want offensive stats,

Giroux 87 points,
Voracek 79 points,
Couturier 70 points,
in 74 games.

Barkov 73 points in 70 games, 3 more in 4 less games than Couturier.
Trocheck 66 points,
Huberdeau 64 points.

Giroux has 17 more points than Couts, Barkov has 17 more points than Dadonov, and like I said before Floridas best player and the driver. Funny how you fail to mention that.
How about Couts?



This is about who's better defensively, the most defensive plays and pk don't belong here? Alright then.

The play goes through Barkov in Florida, so he'll have the puck quite a bit.



So you just missed my post on purpose?

Making a lot of plays off the puck doesn't necessarily indicate that a player is a high caliber defensive forward, otherwise blocks and takeaways would be highly regarded stats.

If you have to fight for the puck frequently, it's at least one sign that you're not strong on the puck when its on your stick.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Let's check in on the eye test.



Lol

But to be fair, Barkov does steal the puck against some the best offensive players in the league. It's not surprising he did that to Couterier.

But now in that same game, Barkov did walk Couterier at the offensive blue line though.