Defensively: Couturier vs Barkov

[Sasso09]

I keep coming back looking for this suppprt for Barkov, it's like watching an episode of Unsolved Mysteries

 

[sadpanda]

Euro (male) voting for Barkov

 

[Beezeral]

I keep coming back looking for this suppprt for Barkov, it's like watching an episode of Unsolved Mysteries

Funny. You don’t have anything supporting couturier. There are plenty of stats posted ITT favoring Barkov.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I keep coming back looking for this suppprt for Barkov, it's like watching an episode of Unsolved Mysteries

I keep coming back to see when Couturier is finally winning by a landslide like you predicted

 

[Beezeral]

Defensively? It's pretty Clearly Couturier.

Poll would be closer if it was overall

Please do an overall poll as well. I want to laugh more.

 

[FinlandPanther]

Pretty simple, who's the better defensive player.. looking for a statistical and eye test comparison from those who are better at using and understanding defensive/ advanced stats than I am.

I’m still waiting.

 

[HyPnOtiK]

I’m still waiting.

As am I.

All I see is stats supporting Couturier is the better Defensive player. They are mostly on our boards though so I'm interested in seeing Florida And neutral fans using stats that support. Barkov.

I'm not saying they don't exist but I haven't seen them.

 

[FinlandPanther]

As am I.

All I see is stats supporting Couturier is the better Defensive player. They are mostly on our boards though so I'm interested in seeing Florida And neutral fans using stats that support. Barkov.

I'm not saying they don't exist but I haven't seen them.

I believe this is the denial stage. Anger will be next. I’m not sure if you have acceptance in you though. You seem to be on a never ending loop of anger and denial.

 

[Beezeral]

As am I.

All I see is stats supporting Couturier is the better Defensive player. They are mostly on our boards though so I'm interested in seeing Florida And neutral fans using stats that support. Barkov.

I'm not saying they don't exist but I haven't seen them.

Please post these secret stats that show couturier is better. Please don’t use a FANsided article like your BFF sasso

 

[FinlandPanther]

I actually feel sorry if you really think Couturier is better than Barkov. He’s a good young player but Barkov is in a whole other league.

 

[HyPnOtiK]

I actually feel sorry if you really think Couturier is better than Barkov. He’s a good young player but Barkov is in a whole other league.

Better? Overall? No... Barkov is a stud.

Defensively, yes. I believe only Bergeron compares.. when I get home ill post my supporting argument. I would like for you guys to do the same

 

[HyPnOtiK]

Please post these secret stats that show couturier is better. Please don’t use a FANsided article like your BFF sasso

I read that article. It was a Redwings fan that wrote it

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Couturier for me, watching his two-way play is a lot of fun... even if he looks like a bird!

 

[Sasso09]

Please post these secret stats that show couturier is better. Please don’t use a FANsided article like your BFF sasso

Barkov is top 5 in none of these stats to my knowledge.

Your response will be terrible with no stat support, so best just not reply

 

[Rentsi]

The fact that Barkov has more successful defensive plays than any other forward in the league is really impressive. An he is still only 22 years old.

 

[Sasso09]

The fact that Barkov has more successful defensive plays than any other forward in the league is really impressive. An he is still only 22 years old.

This has been echoed and echoed and echoed.... what else? Is that it? And what exactly is a "successful defensive play" how are they counted? By who? Is it like hits where they get counted for touching you like the islanders do?

 

[I am not exposed]

For now... looks like a lot of Euro fans and Panthers fans have voted.. once the numbers start getting compared it'll be clear, despite the votes, which. I'm confident will be in Couturier favor even though he's not as popular. Hard to argue with tangible evidence

Yeah, there are loads of us! We're rivaling the Leafs for amount of fans on this board!

 

[Sasso09]

Yeah, there are loads of us! We're rivaling the Leafs for amount of fans on this board!

There's always an influx of neutral fans that jump on players that are on teams that aren't relevant and have no heated rivals and those players become HF darlings. Barkov is one of those.. there's 4 pens fans And 7 leaf fans who hate the Flyers that have voted for Barkov.

Im just waiting to see someone explain it

 

[Tripod]

I just want a stats guy to post ALL the defensive stats, not cherry picked ones that support their guy. Post them all, let's see who's are better. Ideally, Bergeron and Kopitar would be there too since those 4 seem to have the most steam for the Selke.

 

[MightySelanne8]

@HyPnOtiK Can you please provide some data about Couturier facing tougher minutes than Barkov? Its literally impossible as Barkov plays like half of the game and the line he plays on is every opponents number one target, very similar to MacKinnons line on Avs.

Only seen like 6-7 full games from Flyers this season, so my sample size is not really big but based on that I say Sasha, he has literally been a dominating force this season.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

There's always an influx of neutral fans that jump on players that are on teams that aren't relevant and have no heated rivals and those players become HF darlings. Barkov is one of those.. there's 4 pens fans And 7 leaf fans who hate the Flyers that have voted for Barkov.

Im just waiting to see someone explain it

how many Flyers fans have voted for Couturier? seems a bit disingenuous to not count that

 

[Deficient Mode]

I just want a stats guy to post ALL the defensive stats, not cherry picked ones that support their guy. Post them all, let's see who's are better. Ideally, Bergeron and Kopitar would be there too since those 4 seem to have the most steam for the Selke.

Not a fan of any of the teams these guys play for. Looking at the stats, Couturier's relative and quality of teammate numbers stand out to me as the most impressive of any of those 4. He has the most unfavorable teammates/deployment and has the best relative shot and expected goals share. Bergeron actually receives more offensive deployment than his teammates unlike the others, which isn't entirely surprising considering how heavily Boston loads up their first line offensively. Barkov and Couturier both have drawn 17 more penalties than they've taken at 5 on 5 - which is fantastic - compared to Bergeron's +10 and Kopitar's -1. I'd probably give the defensive nod to Couturier over Barkov this year, but to Barkov overall. Anyway, here are some of their selected defensive stats:

Player	CF%	CA/60	GA/60	xGA	xGF%	xGA/60	P+/-	iGVA	iTKA	iGVA/60	iTKA/60	Rel CF%	Rel CA/60	RelT CF%	RelT CA/60	Rel xGF%	Rel xGA/60	RelT xGF%	RelT xGA/60	Rel ZSR
ALEKSANDER.BARKOV	51.72	56.77	2.86	42.9	52.07	2.41	17	40	53	2.25	2.98	3.7	-3.31	3.04	-3.6	5.48	-0.09	4.69	-0.06	-10.04
ANZE.KOPITAR	51.51	55.29	2.09	44.66	49.17	2.33	-1	42	37	2.19	1.93	2.58	-2.31	1.69	-2.14	1.53	-0.02	1.14	-0.02	-7.28
PATRICE.BERGERON	57.71	49.16	1.47	28.58	52.88	2.34	10	21	38	1.72	3.11	5	-2.07	5.03	-3.11	-0.96	0.34	-1.04	0.19	5.68
SEAN.COUTURIER	53.96	51.18	2.12	39.82	55.21	2.16	17	28	30	1.52	1.63	5.96	-5.41	9.86	-10.65	7.38	-0.08	10.92	-0.21	-8.62

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Beezeral]

I read that article. It was a Redwings fan that wrote it

 

[anders and]

Holy tainted stats...

Barkov is 55% on the dot, Couturier 54%.... wash

Faceoff Win%
Barkov 54.47%
Couturier 53.92%

Faceoff Wins
Barkov 834
Couturier 488

 

[BB88]

We're talking defensively but if you want to talk offense, we can briefly

Barkov: EVEN STRENGTH
G/60: 0.8
A1/60: 1.0
A2/60: 0.9
P/60: 2.7

COUTURIER: EVEN STRENGTH
6/60: 1.15
A1/60: 1.1
A2/60: .55
P/60: 2.8

Couturier faces tougher minutes and and is the better goal scorer and primary assist player while Barkov has an astronomical amount of secondary assist in comparison..

Now, back to defense

You asked defense and I gave you defense, so you turn into offense?

There's nothing Couts is better than Barkov at offensively.

You want offensive stats,

Giroux 87 points,
Voracek 79 points,
Couturier 70 points,
in 74 games.

Barkov 73 points in 70 games, 3 more in 4 less games than Couturier.
Trocheck 66 points,
Huberdeau 64 points.

Giroux has 17 more points than Couts, Barkov has 17 more points than Dadonov, and like I said before Floridas best player and the driver. Funny how you fail to mention that.
How about Couts?

Holy tainted stats...

Barkov is 55% on the dot, Couturier 54%.... wash

Barkov had 71 take aways/ 57 give away
Couturier had 42 take away/ 34 give away

Almost identical take away to give away ratio, only thing that tells us is that Couturier is safer with the puck, Barkov more aggressive and risky. That's an advantage of Couturier when talking about defense.

This is about who's better defensively, the most defensive plays and pk don't belong here? Alright then.

The play goes through Barkov in Florida, so he'll have the puck quite a bit.

As am I.

All I see is stats supporting Couturier is the better Defensive player. They are mostly on our boards though so I'm interested in seeing Florida And neutral fans using stats that support. Barkov.

I'm not saying they don't exist but I haven't seen them.

So you just missed my post on purpose?