Dave Hakstol Part V

[deadhead]

Yup. I said Q is better than Hak & I’d have no problem hiring him. But he’s going to love Weise, Hagg, Folin, Lehtera & all the two-way heavy vets. And he’s generally slow to trust young players (with exceptions). And these have been two of this board’s biggest complaints about Hakstol.

Actually, that applies to most NHL coaches, the exception is generally when a team is in a serious tank/rebuild and the coach has the green light to play kids without worrying about winning for a couple years (even then, you'd better not take too long). And even then the kids who play are primarily top ten/twenty picks (bad teams tend to collect 3-4 or more of these guys during a rebuild) or older "rookies" who've been marinating in college, Europe and/or the AHL. Go look at NHL rosters and see how many players under 25 years old are getting top 9/top 4 minutes.

I think it reflects that fans focus on "flash" plays, which young legs provide, and don't recognize many of the miscues, which the coach knows from knowing the scheme and the player's responsibilities, and thus how often they're screwing up and leaving their teammates out to dry. So fans go "why don't they play so and so, who's more talented," and the coach quietly mumbles "if I have to watch that bonehead screw up one more time . . . "

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Hire Q and make trades.

Fire Hak, Hire Q and....

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Great, and I've refuted it. At the same time you have no response for the fact that we complain heavily about the shot quality produced by Hak's system while Chicago fans don't do that.

That's because the complaints aren't the same, no matter how hard you pretend.

You continue to miss my point on how both fanbases dislike the coaches’ systems & want something more “modern,” which was meant as a GENERAL point, by insisting on comparing the two systems to each other. Go nuts. You are clearly incapable of grasping a general point. Move on to how Q will love guys like Weise, Hagg, Folin, Lehtera & often take a long time to trust young players.

 

[Rebels57]

Scott should tell Hextall to fire Hak and hire Q.

If he refuses, he should fire Hextall and Hak...hire Q and a new GM.

THIS.

Scott should force Hextalls hand or tell him to pack his shit.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Actually, that applies to most NHL coaches, the exception is generally when a team is in a serious tank/rebuild and the coach has the green light to play kids without worrying about winning for a couple years (even then, you'd better not take too long). And even then the kids who play are primarily top ten/twenty picks (bad teams tend to collect 3-4 or more of these guys during a rebuild) or older "rookies" who've been marinating in college, Europe and/or the AHL. Go look at NHL rosters and see how many players under 25 years old are getting top 9/top 4 minutes.

I think it reflects that fans focus on "flash" plays, which young legs provide, and don't recognize many of the miscues, which the coach knows from knowing the scheme and the player's responsibilities, and thus how often they're screwing up and leaving their teammates out to dry. So fans go "why don't they play so and so, who's more talented," and the coach quietly mumbles "if I have to watch that bonehead screw up one more time . . . "

I agree

 

[Beef Invictus]

You continue to miss my point on how both fanbases dislike the coaches’ systems & want something more “modern,” which was meant as a GENERAL point, by insisting on comparing the two systems to each other. Go nuts. You are clearly incapable of grasping a general point. Move on to how Q will love guys like Weise, Hagg, Folin, Lehtera & often take a long time to trust young players.

Dude nobody here wants something more modern, that isn't the complaint at all. Why are you still digging this hole?

Try to understand that fanbases can in fact generate unique complaints about different coaches, and that it isn't all the same as you tried to believe and are failing to prove.

 

[wasup]

F

Anyone saying we should keep Hakstol and not pickup Q is a clown. That's absurd. That's a complete joke. It's not even funny.
The experiment is over. Go back to college Dave. We need a better mentor for these kids and someone who isn't afraid to make some noise.

Fine i agree but Q is not the guy to mentor kids . A coach with more progressive thinking like Cooper (TB) not a grumpy old miser like Q .

 

[dingbathero]

Fire Lappy and hire Q to take over the PK...
Then at years end Q takes over the bench....

Q would never do that and who are we kidding really...
Hackstol isn't going anywhere

 

[Striiker]

By that logic we'd have actually won one of the 412 Finals appearances we've made since the last win.

The next finals appearance is ours

 

[Sawdalite]

Never mind.

 

[Stizzle]

I hate Dave Hakstol and want him gone just like most everyone else here, but I'd rather not go the Quenneville route.

Q is not the future. He'd be an upgrade for sure, but we need to find the next Sean McVay or Brad Stevens NHL equivalent. Not a 60 year old stopgap.

Do your homework and find a young, progressive, hungry lion. Not a hire because your f***ing kid recommended him. An actual new school hire who wants to play 2018 hockey and grow a young team.

 

[macleish1974]

Is Q the Flyers choice for a new Coach?

 

[Rebels57]

I hate Dave Hakstol and want him gone just like most everyone else here, but I'd rather not go the Quenneville route.

Q is not the future. He'd be an upgrade for sure, but we need to find the next Sean McVay or Brad Stevens NHL equivalent. Not a 60 year old stopgap.

Do your homework and find a young, progressive, hungry lion. Not a hire because your ****ing kid recommended him. An actual new school hire who wants to play 2018 hockey and grow a young team.

Great idea in theory, but it would be very risky for Hextall to hire another unknown commodity. If the next one fails, Hextall probably won't get a 3rd hire.

Also, out of the last 8 Stanley Cup winners, Sullivan is the only guy who you could possibly classify as a young hungry lion, yet he was 12 years removed from his first NHL coaching gig when he took over the Penguins. The last inexperienced coach to win a Cup was Bylsma in 2009.

 

[Limeyjim]

Actually, that applies to most NHL coaches, the exception is generally when a team is in a serious tank/rebuild and the coach has the green light to play kids without worrying about winning for a couple years (even then, you'd better not take too long). And even then the kids who play are primarily top ten/twenty picks (bad teams tend to collect 3-4 or more of these guys during a rebuild) or older "rookies" who've been marinating in college, Europe and/or the AHL. Go look at NHL rosters and see how many players under 25 years old are getting top 9/top 4 minutes.

I think it reflects that fans focus on "flash" plays, which young legs provide, and don't recognize many of the miscues, which the coach knows from knowing the scheme and the player's responsibilities, and thus how often they're screwing up and leaving their teammates out to dry. So fans go "why don't they play so and so, who's more talented," and the coach quietly mumbles "if I have to watch that bonehead screw up one more time . . . "

Deadhead, you seem to have an opinion about every subject/issue that is discussed on this forum about the Philadelphia Flyers. Allow me to ask you, if you had a chance to hire a coach as qualified and successful as Joel Quenneville, would you? The opportunity will be fleeting, because a coach with his resume will not last long on the market. I actually think he'll end up in St. Louis, but if I were Ron Hextall I'd make a phone call to Q before any time went by.
What I see from Hakstol is inconsistency from the players in his system. I don't know enough about hockey to say whether Hakstol's system is good within the NHL or not, but I have been growing very restless watching them make the same mistakes.
I would love to see Hakstol sacked. I'm not sure if Q would be able to instill consistency to the current roster, but I'd love to have a coach with his kind of resume working for the franchise.

 

[deadhead]

Go look at NHL rosters and see how many players under 25 years old are getting top 9/top 4 minutes.

NYI: Barzal (21), Pulock D (24)
Caps: Vrana (22), Burakovsky (23)
Pens: Guentzel (24), Simon (24), Maata D (24)
Flyers: Patrick (20), Konecny (21), Laughton (24), Lindblom (22), Provorov D (22), Hagg D (23)
CBJ: Dubois (20), Nutivaara (24), Weenberg (24), Anderson (24), DuClair (23), Jones D (24)
CAR: Teravainen (24), Foegele (22), McGinn (24), Svechnikov (18), Wallmark (23), Pesce D (24)
NYR: DeAngelo (23), Buchneivhc (23), Howden (20), Chytil (19), Pionk D (23), Skjei D (24)
Devils: Hischier (20), Severson D (24), Wood (23), Mueller D (23), Butcher D (24)

TB: Point (22), Cirelli (21), Joseph (21), Sergachev D (20)
MON: Drouin (23), Domi (23), Lehkonen (23), Kotkaniemi (18), Juulsen (21)
TOR: Marner (21), Matthews (21), Kapanen (22), Rielly (24), Dermott (22)
BOS: Pastrnak (22), DeBrusk (22), Heinen (23), Carlo D (22), MacAvoy D (21)
BUF: Eichel (22), Rienhart (23), Mittlestadt (20), Dahlin D (18)
OTT: White (22), Tkachuk (19), Chabot D (22), Lajoie D (21), Tierney D (24)
DET: Larkin (22), Athanasiou (24), Mantha (24), Bertuzzi (23), De La Rose (23), Rasmussen (19), Cholowski D (20)
FLA: McCann (22), Vatrano (24), Maglin (22), Ekblad D (22) Matheson D (24)

NASH: Forsberg (24), Fiala (22), Hartman (24)
MIN: Greenway (21), Dumba D (24)
DAL: Carrick (24), Shore (24), Lindell D (24), Heiskanen D (19)
WIN: Connor (22), Laine (20), Ehlers (22), Copp (24), Morrissey D (23), Trouba D (24)
COL: MacKinnon (23), Rantanen (22), Kerfoot (24), Jost (20), Girard D (20)
CHI: DeBrincat (21), Schmaltz (22), Kahun (23), Kampf (24), Jokiharju (19)
STL: Dunn D (22)

CAL: Lindholm (24), Monahan (24), Tkachuk (21), Bennett (22), Hanifin D (22)
VAN: Boeser (21), Pettersson (20), Motte (23), Goldobin (23), Leipsic (24), Virtanen (22)
SJ: Meier (22), LaBanc (23)
EDM: McDavid (22), Draisaitl (23), Yamamoto (20), Caggiula (24), Puljujarvi (20), Nurse D (23)
ANA: Comtois (20), Lundestrom (21), Sherwood (23), Montour D (24)
ARZ: Keller (20), Galchenyuk (24), Hinostroza (24), Fischer (21), Strome (21), Perlini (22)
LGK: Tuch (22), Theodore D (23)
LA: Kempe (22)

 

[BillDineen]

No gm would hesitate to dump a lesser player for an upgrade, yet many pass on obvious coaching upgrades. Hextall, unfortunately, is in that group. Just pure stupidity. I thought it was a "business" as they say when dumping a player like Gagne. Dump this useless trash of a coach!

 

[deadhead]

Deadhead, you seem to have an opinion about every subject/issue that is discussed on this forum about the Philadelphia Flyers. Allow me to ask you, if you had a chance to hire a coach as qualified and successful as Joel Quenneville, would you?

It would come down to whether Quenneville felt comfortable coaching under Hextall.
Hextall is a strong GM, so a coach would have to feel he's on the same page or it won't work.

Now in Chicago, Tallen was a mediocre drafter but good judge of trades and free agents, Bowman was slightly better drafting but not as good otherwise.
And obviously Q and Bowman didn't see eye to eye.

Hextall is a great drafter, but is Q patient enough to work with a very young roster over the next few years?
Or would he push Hextall to trade to win now - and end up in a situation where the coach and GM are at loggerheads.

 

[Stizzle]

Great idea in theory, but it would be very risky for Hextall to hire another unknown commodity. If the next one fails, Hextall probably won't get a 3rd hire.

Hextall is supposed to do what he thinks is best for the organization. Not what's going to keep him as GM as long as possible.

He already has the Executive VP (or whatever) title. His place in the organization is safe forever if he wants it. Just like Holmgren & Clarke.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I hate Dave Hakstol and want him gone just like most everyone else here, but I'd rather not go the Quenneville route.

Q is not the future. He'd be an upgrade for sure, but we need to find the next Sean McVay or Brad Stevens NHL equivalent. Not a 60 year old stopgap.

Do your homework and find a young, progressive, hungry lion. Not a hire because your ****ing kid recommended him. An actual new school hire who wants to play 2018 hockey and grow a young team.

This is pretty much my point. Yeah, Q is better than Hakstol. But has a lot of the same flaws. He’s not a magic potion. Hawks fans were tiring of him for a reason. Plus, he’s had the luxury of coaching loaded teams throughout his career. With flawed teams with less talent, he hasn’t done anything special.

It would be nice to have an innovator.

 

[Magua]

There will be other good coaches out there 2 years from now. Relax, people. We still don’t know what Hakstol is yet.

 

[Beef Invictus]

There will be other good coaches out there 2 years from now. Relax, people. We still don’t know what Hakstol is yet.

And we will be watching them wistfully as Lappy takes over.

 

[Rebels57]

There will be other good coaches out there 2 years from now. Relax, people. We still don’t know what Hakstol is yet.

I forgot, we are still in "wait and see" mode.

 

[Rebels57]

No gm would hesitate to dump a lesser player for an upgrade, yet many pass on obvious coaching upgrades. Hextall, unfortunately, is in that group. Just pure stupidity. I thought it was a "business" as they say when dumping a player like Gagne. Dump this useless trash of a coach!

Julien - Trotz - Quenneville

Who's next? My guess is Cooper if Tampa Bay doesn't win it all in the next 2 years. He will be signing on as new coach of the Devils or whoever else while Hakstol is signing his extension here.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

“Quenneville still elects to switch to the 1-2-2 a bit earlier in games than he probably should, often choosing to have the Blackhawks spend the entire third period in a defensive shell if they have any sort of lead. This has come back to bite Chicago in the past, especially in the first round against the St. Louis Blues.”
https://thehockeywriters.com/blackhawks-will-defeat-wild-if-they-commit-to-this-one-thing/

Sound familiar? Hahaha. I’m finding such humor in die-hard anti-Hak posters fervently pushing for a coach who shares many of the traits they constantly bash of Hakstol.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Julien - Trotz - Quenneville

Who's next? My guess is Cooper if Tampa Bay doesn't win it all in the next 2 years. He will be signing on as new coach of the Devils or whoever else while Hakstol is signing his extension here.

Actually, my dream scenario is that Tampa ragefires Cooper to snatch up Q before anyone else can, then Hexy - who worked with Coop and liked him at the World Champs (or whatever that was) - hires Coop. That's the dream.