Player Discussion Darnell Nurse

[Aerchon]

He is an RFA for those two seasons, so I think it's possible he signs under $6M like Bob is saying. He has arbitration rights and I can't see him being awarded anything close to $6M, so I could see him signing something around $5.5M instead. That's still a decent chunk of change in difference compared to what he would cost on an 8 year deal.


I doesn't make a ton of sense to me either, but I'd trust Bob McKenzie eons before I'd trust Jim Matheson.

This is the only source behind the "Nurse is demanding $8M" rumour that's going around. Someone sourced it an article, then someone else sourced that article, etc, etc. until the actual source is gone and no one wants to fact check it. "Journalism" in 2020 in a nut shell.

Nurse is a UFA in 2022 there is only one year between that.

The 2 year bridge McKenzie proposes takes him perfectly to UFA. The Oilers will basically lose all negotiating rights and just hope that Nurse really wants to stay in Edmonton... yes that is bat shit crazy and it is what Mckenzie is suggesting and absolutely suggests that 8 mill is the going number for Nurse long term.

 

[McDNicks17]

Ahhhh.

Math is our friend.

Quote was potentially a two year deal with an average cap hit "just under 6 mill" because the Oilers can't afford to sign Nurse long term...

2 year bringing Nurse to UFA is the most desperate stupid move that is only considered if Nurse actually wants 8. It is the cheapest term you can pay for and they are still talking 6 million. Calculate how much more a player wants for 8 years of UFA status instead of 2 and you get at least 8.

If the agent is being unreasonable and Nurse really will sign for 6 long term Im going to guess Nurse will miss training camp because it's a big gap between 6x8 and 8x8...

I linked the segment above.

"In an ideal world, the Oilers and Nurse would do a 6-8 year deal, but the Oilers can't do that because of their cap situation. They just can't. Especially in the next year or two it's problematic. So the likely solution is to maybe do a two year deal with Nurse. And I know what Oilers fans are going to say. "Oh my goodness, in two years he's going to be a UFA. You're walking him to free agency". That's not really the point here. Nurse wants to be an Oiler long term and the Oilers know he's a core player, but they've they've got to overcome that cap problem and by doing a two year deal somewhat number maybe less than $6M. It would satisfy the short term needs or Nurse, but it would also allow for the possibility of coming back in a year from now and doing a long term deal to get them over the salary cap crunch."


Again, Bob isn't even remotely hinting at that $8M or that a long term deal is an issue. The issue seems to be the cap over the next two seasons.

 

[Aerchon]

I linked the segment above.

"In an ideal world, the Oilers and Nurse would do a 6-8 year deal, but the Oilers can't do that because of their cap situation. They just can't. Especially in the next year or two it's problematic. So the likely solution is to maybe do a two year deal with Nurse."

"But they've they've got to overcome that cap problem and by doing a two year deal somewhat number maybe less than $6M. It would satisfy the short term needs or Nurse, but it would also allow for the possibility of coming back in a year from now and doing a longterm deal to get them over the salary cap crunch."


Again, Bob isn't even remotely hinting at that $8M or that a long term deal is an issue. The issue seems to be the cap over the next two seasons.

Nurse makes 3.2. The cap is supposed to go up by 2 or 3 each year the next couple.

We have a plethora of cheap options on D.

We have Russell, Larsson, and Nuge all coming off the books in two years.

Russell and Larsson both have good trade value right at this exact moment and shouLD in the offseason as well.

Exactly why do you think the Oilers would have any trouble signing Nurse the next "year or two" unless he wants 8?

Media like to make stuff and stir the pot but unfortunately the Oilers are terrible for leaking stuff and Mckenzie is rather credible and what he says very much implies that Nurses camp wants a large unreasonable number.

"Just under 6 for 2 years and UFA" is absolutely nuts.

 

[CupofOil]

He is an RFA for those two seasons, so I think it's possible he signs under $6M like Bob is saying. He has arbitration rights and I can't see him being awarded anything close to $6M, so I could see him signing something around $5.5M instead. That's still a decent chunk of change in difference compared to what he would cost on an 8 year deal.


I doesn't make a ton of sense to me either, but I'd trust Bob McKenzie eons before I'd trust Jim Matheson.

This is the only source behind the "Nurse is demanding $8M" rumour that's going around. Someone sourced it an article, then someone else sourced that article, etc, etc. until the actual source is gone and no one wants to fact check it. "Journalism" in 2020 in a nut shell.

I still don't understand how a long term contract isn't feasible because of cap concerns even if Holland goes crazy and gives Nurse upwards of 7. You're talking about a 1.5m difference between long term and bridge. The Oilers have plenty of cushion this off-season to absorb that 1.5m difference.

Even if you want to extrapolate those concerns out to 2 years with Nuge needing to be re-signed, it still makes no sense because even more salary comes off the books by then and who knows what happens with the expansion draft as that's when Neal likely gets moved.

Also, kicking the long term contract can down the road 2 years would likely lead to an even bigger contract (bigger cap percentage deal) as opposed to doing it now assuming that he doesn't regress and taking into account that it would be a full UFA contract so I don't see how bridging him now is necessary to ease cap concerns.

 

[Oil Dood]

I still don't understand how a long term contract isn't feasible because of cap concerns even if Holland goes crazy and gives Nurse upwards of 7. You're talking about a 1.5m difference between long term and bridge. The Oilers have plenty of cushion this off-season to absorb that 1.5m difference.

Even if you want to extrapolate those concerns out to 2 years with Nuge needing to be re-signed, it still makes no sense because even more salary comes off the books by then and who knows what happens with the expansion draft as that's when Neal likely gets moved.

Also, kicking the long term contract can down the road 2 years would likely lead to an even bigger contract (bigger cap percentage deal) as opposed to doing it now assuming that he doesn't regress and taking into account that it would be a full UFA contract so I don't see how bridging him now is necessary to ease cap concerns.

You gotta remember all the salary coming off the books is not dead salary, Neal goes we will need another top six forward(not cheap) as Russell and Larrson comes off we need to replace them(hopefully from the A but those are gambles) so that money will have to be spent if we want to have a roster.
Nurse will get paid what the market dictates.

 

[CupofOil]

You gotta remember all the salary coming off the books is not dead salary, Neal goes we will need another top six forward(not cheap) as Russell and Larrson comes off we need to replace them(hopefully from the A but those are gambles) so that money will have to be spent if we want to have a roster.
Nurse will get paid what the market dictates.

A $1.5m or so difference the next 2 years isn't going to kill their ability to fill out a roster.
There are no cap concerns when it comes to giving Nurse a long term deal. It's not like a couple of years ago when they had actual cap concerns and couldn't afford to sign him long term.

You can argue that the extra $1.5m might cut down a bit on how much they can add but they can easily fill out a roster with more Sheahan and Archibald types, sign Nurse long term and still have room to add a 2nd line forward.

 

[LTIR]

1 yr x 5M
or
7yrs x 6M

Doesn't deserve more than 6 based on what he has shown this far.

He will be chased out of town if we give him more. Best to trade him if his agent even talks 7+

 

[Oil Dood]

A $1.5m or so difference the next 2 years isn't going to kill their ability to fill out a roster.
There are no cap concerns when it comes to giving Nurse a long term deal. It's not like a couple of years ago when they had actual cap concerns and couldn't afford to sign him long term.

You can argue that the extra $1.5m might cut down a bit on how much they can add but they can easily fill out a roster with more Sheahan and Archibald types and sign Nurse long term and still have room to add a 2nd line forward.

I wonder if it kind of hinges on what happens at expansion? Maybe Holland is hoping to get Neal off the books first?
I really do not know but I will trust Holland here.

 

[Aerchon]

You gotta remember all the salary coming off the books is not dead salary, Neal goes we will need another top six forward(not cheap) as Russell and Larrson comes off we need to replace them(hopefully from the A but those are gambles) so that money will have to be spent if we want to have a roster.
Nurse will get paid what the market dictates.

I get that everyone would love to have Russell or an equivalent and Larsson or an equivalent on the roster but...

It safer to have vets. But safe goes out the window in a cap world and at least the Oil are lucky enough to have players groomed and at least plausible to replace them.

If the Oilers can't replace Larsson and Russell with a combination of Nurse, Klefbom, Bear, Bouchard, Jones, Benning, Persson, Laggesson (who I thought was good last night) Broberg, and Samourukov I don't know what this management possibly could be thinking. Not to mention Russell plays as a #5 and while he is extremly good in that role getting someone considerably cheaper in UFA or trade is "relatively" easy.

As dangerous as it would be to trade Russell right now, with the current market the way it is Holland should be looking hard at moving Russell if there really is so much of a cap concern that signing Nurse isn't possible.

Holland is not known for navigating the cap well at all and if he can't get Nurse signed long term it's going to look very bad.

And if he feels Nurse wants 6 mill for 2 years and UFA status OR 8 mill for long term he better have the balls to trade him and get an awesome return.

 

[McDNicks17]

A $1.5m or so difference the next 2 years isn't going to kill their ability to fill out a roster.
There are no cap concerns when it comes to giving Nurse a long term deal. It's not like a couple of years ago when they had actual cap concerns and couldn't afford to sign him long term.

You can argue that the extra $1.5m might cut down a bit on how much they can add but they can easily fill out a roster with more Sheahan and Archibald types, sign Nurse long term and still have room to add a 2nd line forward.

Hard to say what's at play. Maybe they're trying to sign Bear to the contract they should have signed Nurse to. Maybe RNH's camp has already told Holland they'll be looking for $8M in two years. Who knows?

$1.5M could be the difference in adding a legit top6 winger especially when they have a ~$4M handicap in buyouts.


The cap situation in two years is definitely much better. No Russell, no Koskinen, Neal in the final year of his deal and/or in Vegas, no Chiasson, no Khaira, last year of Sekera's buyout, a new TV deal that'll hopefully add a bunch to the cap. Hopefully some young ELC players actually contributing too.

I don't think it's the worst thing to kick it down the road. It'll all depend on what Kenny actually uses the cap space on.

 

[Oil Dood]

I get that everyone would love to have Russell or an equivalent and Larsson or an equivalent on the roster but...

It safer to have vets. But safe goes out the window in a cap world and at least the Oil are lucky enough to have players groomed and at least plausible to replace them.

If the Oilers can't replace Larsson and Russell with a combination of Nurse, Klefbom, Bear, Bouchard, Jones, Benning, Persson, Laggesson (who I thought was good last night) Broberg, and Samourukov I don't know what this management possibly could be thinking. Not to mention Russell plays as a #5 and while he is extremly good in that role getting someone considerably cheaper in UFA or trade is "relatively" easy.

As dangerous as it would be to trade Russell right now, with the current market the way it is Holland should be looking hard at moving Russell if there really is so much of a cap concern that signing Nurse isn't possible.

Holland is not known for navigating the cap well at all and if he can't get Nurse signed long term it's going to look very bad.

And if he feels Nurse wants 6 mill for 2 years and UFA status OR 8 mill for long term he better have the balls to trade him and get an awesome return.

Benning is good with whoever he is put with on the bottom pair. He is the guy I would use to ease in LHD so I think our bottom pair is the safe pair.
The Klef/Lars duo that was soooo good two years ago I do not trust right now, way too many errors and I will question Klefbom's heart(diving like that makes me very very angry, the team south on highway two can do that) have been very inconsistant this year, it might be due to the injury Lars suffered and the extra time Klefbom is playing but they have not been good. I think Bouchard is custom made for Klefbom's game so I hope he gets his head in the game for that.
Nurse/Bear I like as a duo but they have some consistancy issues too(Nurse pinches at times when he should not and Bear makes rookie mistakes) but I feel this duo has the heart and the try that we need.
I would trade Klefbom way before Nurse. After last night it is not even close, Diver Klefbom can go away.

 

[Aceboogie]

Funny they use Troubas as a comparable. Oilers management should be using it as a warning.

 

[Aceboogie]

Benning is good with whoever he is put with on the bottom pair. He is the guy I would use to ease in LHD so I think our bottom pair is the safe pair.
The Klef/Lars duo that was soooo good two years ago I do not trust right now, way too many errors and I will question Klefbom's heart(diving like that makes me very very angry, the team south on highway two can do that) have been very inconsistant this year, it might be due to the injury Lars suffered and the extra time Klefbom is playing but they have not been good. I think Bouchard is custom made for Klefbom's game so I hope he gets his head in the game for that.
Nurse/Bear I like as a duo but they have some consistancy issues too(Nurse pinches at times when he should not and Bear makes rookie mistakes) but I feel this duo has the heart and the try that we need.
I would trade Klefbom way before Nurse. After last night it is not even close, Diver Klefbom can go away.

Klefbom is so much better than Nurse is pretty scary. Scary in the sense some Oiler fans would actually trade Klefbom (at 4.125 mil long term) to keep Nurse (who could sign for 6Mil plus). Nurse is a fine middle pairing D. But hes shown hes pretty much physical tools only. Hes got 5 cent brain in a $100 body. Thos type of D decline hard and fast

I love Nurse, I was his biggest defender a fews back. But man, the pendulum has swung completely the other way. People think hes like a Colton Parayko type D. Hes not. Hes a solid #4 D and not much more

 

[Aerchon]

Benning is good with whoever he is put with on the bottom pair. He is the guy I would use to ease in LHD so I think our bottom pair is the safe pair.
The Klef/Lars duo that was soooo good two years ago I do not trust right now, way too many errors and I will question Klefbom's heart(diving like that makes me very very angry, the team south on highway two can do that) have been very inconsistant this year, it might be due to the injury Lars suffered and the extra time Klefbom is playing but they have not been good. I think Bouchard is custom made for Klefbom's game so I hope he gets his head in the game for that.
Nurse/Bear I like as a duo but they have some consistancy issues too(Nurse pinches at times when he should not and Bear makes rookie mistakes) but I feel this duo has the heart and the try that we need.
I would trade Klefbom way before Nurse. After last night it is not even close, Diver Klefbom can go away.

Our record with Klefbom Persson is at least as good as Klefbom Larsson.

If we need to trade someone we trade Larsson and/or Russell.

Klefbom, despite diving, is far too good/needed especially at his low cap hit.

 

[Oil Dood]

Our record with Klefbom Persson is at least as good as Klefbom Larsson.

If we need to trade someone we trade Larsson and/or Russell.

Klefbom, despite diving, is far too good/needed especially at his low cap hit.

That dive did it for me. I hate players that pull that junk and you know Klefbom would never back up crap like that physically. I do not want him near or on this team, hell throw him and Pullijarvi to Calgary for Brodie and Bennett.

I also agree that we need to move Russell or Lars as well but that is more for cap managment and moving out too many veterans can be costly.

 

[Oil Dood]

Klefbom is so much better than Nurse is pretty scary. Scary in the sense some Oiler fans would actually trade Klefbom (at 4.125 mil long term) to keep Nurse (who could sign for 6Mil plus). Nurse is a fine middle pairing D. But hes shown hes pretty much physical tools only. Hes got 5 cent brain in a $100 body. Thos type of D decline hard and fast

I love Nurse, I was his biggest defender a fews back. But man, the pendulum has swung completely the other way. People think hes like a Colton Parayko type D. Hes not. Hes a solid #4 D and not much more

Nope, this is wrong. Klefbom is a liability 5 on 5 and has been for a long tie.
Klefboms has been worse statistically in every departement 5 vs 5 this year. Take away those PP minutes and he is 3rd place amongst our defensmen in pts and dead last +/- , hell Benning is only 7 pts behind him 5 vs 5.
Klefbom and Nurse are not as far apart IQ wise then some think here.
Klefbom's so called value contract is actually quite a rip off when you look at games played vs his contract.
The biggest mistake we could make would be to move Nurse and watch Klefbom miss 20 - 30 games again like he does every single year except 1 since we aquired him. Those minutes are way too important to give to a glass man. Trade him now while he still has value.
Also the diving has now crept into Klefbom's game. No respect for that whatsoever.
You say defenders like Nurse decline hard and fast.....I will bet the house that Nurse plays more NHL games at the end of his career then Klefbom.

Oh and that value ends in two years(at the time it was not a value contract), I can guarentee you he asks for more then what Nurse does.

 

[Aerchon]

Klefbom is so much better than Nurse is pretty scary. Scary in the sense some Oiler fans would actually trade Klefbom (at 4.125 mil long term) to keep Nurse (who could sign for 6Mil plus). Nurse is a fine middle pairing D. But hes shown hes pretty much physical tools only. Hes got 5 cent brain in a $100 body. Thos type of D decline hard and fast

I love Nurse, I was his biggest defender a fews back. But man, the pendulum has swung completely the other way. People think hes like a Colton Parayko type D. Hes not. Hes a solid #4 D and not much more

Nurse is #3. Some nights a #2 others #4 averages put to #3 in general.

He is worth keeping just not at 6 for 2 and UFA or 8 x 8.

 

[Llamamoto]

Since when do we take Matheson as a credible source?

 

[Oil Dood]

Nurse makes 3.2. The cap is supposed to go up by 2 or 3 each year the next couple.

We have a plethora of cheap options on D.

We have Russell, Larsson, and Nuge all coming off the books in two years.

Russell and Larsson both have good trade value right at this exact moment and shouLD in the offseason as well.

Exactly why do you think the Oilers would have any trouble signing Nurse the next "year or two" unless he wants 8?

Media like to make stuff and stir the pot but unfortunately the Oilers are terrible for leaking stuff and Mckenzie is rather credible and what he says very much implies that Nurses camp wants a large unreasonable number.

"Just under 6 for 2 years and UFA" is absolutely nuts.

Or Holland is looking longer term and realizing that Nugent Hopkins, Yammimoto, Bear and Klefbom will all be looking for new deals around that time frame.

 

[Oil Dood]

Nurse is #3. Some nights a #2 others #4 averages put to #3 in general.

He is worth keeping just not at 6 for 2 and UFA or 8 x 8.

With the cap going up 6 is the new 4.

 

[Zaddy]

You gotta remember all the salary coming off the books is not dead salary, Neal goes we will need another top six forward(not cheap) as Russell and Larrson comes off we need to replace them(hopefully from the A but those are gambles) so that money will have to be spent if we want to have a roster.
Nurse will get paid what the market dictates.

Neal isn't a top-six forward, and both Russell and Larsson should be able to be replaced internally rather easily.

Starting lineup 21/22 season:
Klefbom-Bouchard
Nurse-Bear
Some combination of Jones/Broberg/Samorukov/Persson/cheap UFA

 

[Oil Dood]

Neal isn't a top-six forward, and both Russell and Larsson should be able to be replaced internally rather easily.

Starting lineup 21/22 season:
Klefbom-Bouchard
Nurse-Bear
Some combination of Jones/Broberg/Samorukov/Persson/cheap UFA

Neal's salary is that of a top six forward and on our team he has been a top six forward reguarless of what we think his skill level is. So there is 5 -6 that we will have to spend up front before we talk.
During that time span as well, Bear, RNH and Klefbom will all need new salaries. Chiarelli left a mess here, it will take time to fix it and I hope Holland is up for the task.
The issue is not cap space next season, it is cap space in the near future though.

 

[Taylor Halls Teeth]

Nurse makes 3.2. The cap is supposed to go up by 2 or 3 each year the next couple.

We have a plethora of cheap options on D.

We have Russell, Larsson, and Nuge all coming off the books in two years.

Russell and Larsson both have good trade value right at this exact moment and shouLD in the offseason as well.

Exactly why do you think the Oilers would have any trouble signing Nurse the next "year or two" unless he wants 8?

Media like to make stuff and stir the pot but unfortunately the Oilers are terrible for leaking stuff and Mckenzie is rather credible and what he says very much implies that Nurses camp wants a large unreasonable number.

"Just under 6 for 2 years and UFA" is absolutely nuts.

Are you sure about this? I think Russell would have been gone last year if there was any interest and he is having a worse season this year even though the team is stronger. He is a third pairing guy on a second pairing contract. Not that there might not be a team that could use his skills but that extra year kills it. I think they are stuck with him until this time next season. Now I also thought that Lucic was unmovable but the thing with Russel is they don't want to take any money back. Larsson is a different story because he is younger and coming off the fibula break so the extra year is a plus. Still selling low with him today.

 

[Zaddy]

Neal's salary is that of a top six forward and on our team he has been a top six forward reguarless of what we think his skill level is. So there is 5 -6 that we will have to spend up front before we talk.
During that time span as well, Bear, RNH and Klefbom will all need new salaries. Chiarelli left a mess here, it will take time to fix it and I hope Holland is up for the task.
The issue is not cap space next season, it is cap space in the near future though.

Klefbom is signed through 22/23, that's pretty far off. Bear isn't going to command a huge deal. Either you sign him to a cheap bridge deal, or go long-term on a value contract (similar to when Klefbom signed his deal originally).

RNH is really the only concern, but even if he is a top6 forward on a team lacking in top6 forwards, I don't see how you can justify signing him to anything over $7M long-term.

I actually think the Oilers are in a pretty good spot cap wise. Our D is really cheap. A lot of teams have a significant chunk tied up in their D, but the Oilers don't and shouldn't have any problems in that regard with the expiration of Russell's and Larsson's deals. Bouchard should be able to play next year and he'll be on an ELC, Bear will be relatively cheap, lots of other players coming in on ELC's too. Nurse will be the highest paid player among D and he really shouldn't be getting more than 6.5 per on a long-term deal.

Holland just has to make sure he doesn't overpay. I don't want to see more deals like the Kassian one. Unfortunately unbridled loyalty is one of Holland's weaknesses as a GM. If he keeps handing out the types of deals he did with the Red Wings, the Oilers will be in trouble. Can't afford to be sentimental and overpay guys like RNH and Nurse just to keep them around. Be smart and cut bait if they're asking for the moon. While good players, neither of them are cornerstone pieces of this team.

 

[fuswald]

With the cap going up 6 is the new 4.

That's a 50 percent increase. Maybe 15 years of cap increase (I didn't check that)