Daniel Sprong Containment Thread Part 3 | Mod Warning Post #1

[Ryder71]

Rust has more than 2 goals in the playoffs. Panarabread has 4 goals while getting turns with Kane and whatever garbage CBJ calls "talent."

You actually believe a player like Rust is any comparison to Panarin?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

ahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Awesome hahahahahahahahaha.

So instead, Rust wears #68.

 

[EightyOne]

So instead, Rust wears #68.

You are making so many more enemies here right now.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You actually believe a player like Rust is any comparison to Panarin?

Man, I don't believe Rust is what will land us Panarin in the first place. CBJ and PGH are discussing Brassard and yeah there was that rumor that the Jackets wanted to bribe VGK to take Rust to trade to them and VGK said nah fam. But since then, I don't know how much CBJ wants Rust and I don't ever want to see Rust in that abomination of a jersey and it will crush my soul so I am going to argue this to death no matter how rational any idea you have that makes sense to trade Rust.

 

[Ogrezilla]

RUst went nearly 30 games without doing much of anything. That doesn't make him a ;;really good player in my book. To his credit he's rebounded a bit. But when you go that long without producing and in the process doing it playing with the likes of Sid and Geno, nah that's not necessarily a ''really good'' player.

Rust scored just as much in that stretch as Sprong has 5v5 with the Ducks. And he averaged less ice time over that stretch than Sprong does. I feel like it's fair to compare that, since Rust doesn't get any PP time. And again, he's bounced back enough to average more production than Sprong even factoring in that stretch.

And you realize that Rust is seriously 2nd in the league in even strength playoff goals since joining the league, right? Behind only Jake. The guy can score. And again, he doesn't get PP time, so comparing ES numbers is only fair.

 

[EightyOne]

One reason to get Panarin (at almost any cost):

if the Pens fancy themselves as a playoff team, and if the odds of facing CBJ are greater than 25%, you have to get Panarin. He is a pure Pens goalie killer. (9 goals 5 assists in 9 games vs PIT, only team he owns more is NYR lol)

Rust on CBJ though? He'd get so many playoff OT goals against the Pens, too.

Give em Brassard. I am confident Brass forgot how to score after leaving NYR, so screw it.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

One reason to get Panarin (at almost any cost):

if the Pens fancy themselves as a playoff team, and if the odds of facing CBJ are greater than 25%, you have to get Panarin. He is a pure Pens goalie killer.

Rust on CBJ though? He'd get so many playoff OT goals against the Pens, too.

Give em Brassard. I am confident Brass forgot how to score after leaving NYR, so screw it.

Without even regretting it, I would give the Jackets Brassard and the 1st, not protected and Jarry for Panarin if it means we keep Rust out of it.

Guentzel, Crosby, Hornqvist
Panarin, Malkin, Rust
Pearson, Sheahan?, Kessel

 

[Ryder71]

And you realize that Rust is seriously 2nd in the league in even strength playoff goals since joining the league, right? Behind only Jake. The guy can score.

So, does that mean for our playoff runs he's been more instrumental than Sid, Geno or Kessel, since you know he's a hockey legend 5v5?

 

[Ogrezilla]

So, does that mean for our playoff runs he's been more instrumental than Sid, Geno or Kessel, since you know he's a hockey legend 5v5?

No. But he's been instrumental.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

So, does that mean for our playoff runs he's been more instrumental than Sid, Geno or Kessel, since you know he's a hockey legend 5v5?

Guys like Rust, they're glue character guys. It's those guys that score while playing anywhere in the line-up and usually big goals while working their ass off and doing the lord's work on the PK. We've lost a lot of those types and have seen the ramifications playing other teams that have more of those types in their line-up, doing us in.

The last thing we need, is to move or lose a guy like Rust (even with my love for him) because we have very few, if any, guys like him in the line-up. Rust is easy to pick on because when the other guys don't score, people have this need to point out their insane talent, but those guys also don't play PK minutes like Rust or skate anything remotely close to the way he does.

 

[Ryder71]

No. But he's been instrumental.

But not more so, yes? See that's why I don't solely look at 5v5. There's an example as to why those numbers don't tell the whole story. No one in their right mind would arrive at the conclusion that Rust come playoff time made a bigger impact than our big three did. That's why you look at total points, not just cherry pick one stat to further an uneven agenda.

 

[Ogrezilla]

But not more so, yes? See that's why I don't solely look at 5v5. There's an example as to why those numbers don't tell the whole story. No one in their right mind would arrive at the conclusion that Rust come playoff time made a bigger impact than our big three did. That's why you look at total points, not just cherry pick one stat to further an uneven agenda.

I don't look solely at 5v5 either. Not when discussing a player overall. But when I'm deciding who should play on what 5v5 line, then yes, I'm looking at 5v5 solely. At no point have I discounted Sprong's PP points. I've specifically said he'd help our 2nd powerplay. But when I'm looking at who should be on what 5v5 line, I don't give a shit how many powerplay points he scores. I'll look at 5v5 play to decide who is better at 5v5. I'll look at PP play to decide who is better on the PP. I'll look at SH play to decide who is better on the PK. And then I'll combine everything to decide who is better overall.

 

[Ryder71]

Guys like Rust, they're glue character guys. It's those guys that score while playing anywhere in the line-up and usually big goals while working their ass off and doing the lord's work on the PK. We've lost a lot of those types and have seen the ramifications playing other teams that have more of those types in their line-up, doing us in.

The last thing we need, is to move or lose a guy like Rust (even with my love for him) because we have very few, if any, guys like him in the line-up. Rust is easy to pick on because when the other guys don't score, people have this need to point out their insane talent, but those guys also don't play PK minutes like Rust or skate anything remotely close to the way he does.

Yeah yeah, he's a glue guy rah rah rah. But if this team wins Sid and Geno and even Phil do the heavy lifting. Which is my point here. Rust is all well and good, but without Sid and Geno we likely don't even make it into the post season.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Also, I am going to discuss Panarin in the trade thread.

But yeah, with Sprong...that's all on Rutherford. I have my issues with Sullivan, but it's hard to blame a coach for not trusting a player he didn't believe was ready at all and the GM f***ing it up so he had no choice but to try to see if he was and didn't like what he saw. It is what it is. The Ducks do, we didn't. We got a player that the coaching staff does, they didn't need him.

Both sides won.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Yeah yeah, he's a glue guy rah rah rah. But if this team wins Sid and Geno and even Phil do the heavy lifting. Which is my point here. Rust is all well and good, but without Sid and Geno we likely don't even make it into the post season.

What's that have to do with anything we're talking about?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yeah yeah, he's a glue guy rah rah rah. But if this team wins Sid and Geno and even Phil do the heavy lifting. Which is my point here. Rust is all well and good, but without Sid and Geno we likely don't even make it into the post season.

4 of Rust's playoff goals are GWG's.

That's 4 wins. 3 of those during the back 2 back cup runs. If you think some random jobber would have done the same, you need to just remove yourself from the discussion because I think you're letting yourself get angry about something you don't need to be angry about.

 

[Ryder71]

I don't look solely at 5v5 either. Not when discussing a player overall. But when I'm deciding who should play on what 5v5 line, then yes, I'm looking at 5v5 solely. At no point have I discounted Sprong's PP points. I've specifically said he'd help our 2nd powerplay. But when I'm looking at who should be on what 5v5 line, I don't give a **** how many powerplay points he scores. I'll look at 5v5 play to decide who is better at 5v5. I'll look at PP play to decide who is better on the PP. I'll look at SH play to decide who is better on the PK. I'll combine everything to decide who is better overall.

And again I ask you, how can you properly assert or suggest one way or the other just how effective or ineffective Sprong would be if he were never given a viable opportunity here?

 

[Ogrezilla]

And again I ask you, how can you properly assert or suggest one way or the other just how effective or ineffective Sprong would be if he were never given a viable opportunity here?

because I don't think he's playing with a group of lepers in Anaheim. They aren't Sid and Geno, but they are still solid top 6 NHL players. His stats with the Ducks aren't meaningless. Hell, his stats here with Cullen and Sheahan aren't meaningless, as much as you want them to be.

 

[Ryder71]

because I don't think he's playing with a group of lepers in Anaheim. They aren't Sid and Geno, but they are still solid top 6 NHL players. His stats with the Ducks aren't meaningless.

And I think relative to hand he's been dealt, and considering just how anemic the Ducks offense has been, putting up 11 points in 20 games is pretty damn good.

 

[Ogrezilla]

And I think relative to hand he's been dealt, and considering just how anemic the Ducks offense has been, putting up 11 points in 20 games is pretty damn good.

I have agreed with that like 100 times now.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think I've decided that you aren't so much overrating Sprong as you are vastly underrating the RW's on our team. When I say that Kessel, Rust, and Horny are better than Sprong, that's in no way an insult to Sprong.

 

[Ryder71]

4 of Rust's playoff goals are GWG's.

That's 4 wins. 3 of those during the back 2 back cup runs. If you think some random jobber would have done the same, you need to just remove yourself from the discussion because I think you're letting yourself get angry about something you don't need to be angry about.

Ogre just threw out a number where by Rust statistically speaking was better than Sid, Geno or Phil. It actually proves my point. And that is that confining numbers to one particular metric or another can skew in actuality the value or worth of a player or group of players to a team. I'm not mad, I just wish you guys would see it's a flawed manner in which to draw a conclusion. But some here site that metric as gospel. Stop it, it's silly.

 

[Ryder71]

I have agreed with that like 100 times now.

I want 101!

 

[Ogrezilla]

Ogre just threw out a number where by Rust statistically speaking was better than Sid, Geno or Phil. It actually proves my point. And that is that confining numbers to one particular metric or another can skew in actuality the value or worth of a player or group of players to a team. I'm not mad, I just wish you guys would see it's a flawed manner in which to draw a conclusion. But some here site that mtric as gospel. Stop it, it's silly.

again, I didn't do this thing you are saying I did.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Ogre just threw out a number where by Rust statistically speaking was better than Sid, Geno or Phil. It actually proves my point. And that is that confining numbers to one particular metric or another can skew in actuality the value or worth of a player or group of players to a team. I'm not mad, I just wish you guys would see it's a flawed manner in which to draw a conclusion. But some here site that metric as gospel. Stop it, it's silly.

That's how everyone uses metrics, though. Whether Ogre meant what he said or whatever it was, I don't know what the actual post was nor do I care. We all know and he does as well, that Sid, Geno and Phil mean a ton to this team, but Rust, guys like Rust, also mean a f***load more than people want to admit.

Thing is to not get angry about it.