Daniel & Henrik Sedin Thread - Part III (MOD Notice Post # 53)

[Reverend Mayhem]

Art Ross x 2, Hart, Lindsay, President's Trophy x 2. Almost like you aren't even paying attention!

Joe Thornton then. And you really think if Daniel facewashes or spears Keith/Marchand that the Canucks would have a cup or two?

Doesn't change jack squat, but it would have at least been nice to see this happen to Marchand after he ran Salo:



Burish got his face caved in for being a ****ing clown.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Art Ross x 2, Hart, Lindsay, President's Trophy x 2. Almost like you aren't even paying attention!

Joe Thornton then. And you really think if Daniel facewashes or spears Keith/Marchand that the Canucks would have a cup or two?

So regular season success. LOL. I'll take those Cups and Conn Smythes please.

I think if the Sedins stood up for themselves and didn't hide when the play gets physical and become perimeter players we might have a Cup by now. It's too late now though as the core is dead. But how anyone can look back on the past 7 years and call it a success I have no idea. To me it was a disappointment. We had all that talent and are still Cupless. Now we're handcuffed to a lot of those players who have now either become deadweight or a symbol of failure and that's leading to dark times ahead. It sucks.

 

[vancityluongo]

Doesn't change jack squat, but it would have at least been nice to see this happen to Marchand after he ran Salo:



Burish got his face caved in for being a ****ing clown.

Waive Henrik and bring in Ference as captain! Just another instance of Edmonton knowing what's up.

On a non-sarcastic note, anyone (Pauser) notice how it's Andrew Ference, not David Krejci stepping in? Huh.

 

[vancityluongo]

So regular season success. LOL. I'll take those Cups and Conn Smythes please.

I think if the Sedins stood up for themselves and didn't hide when the play gets physical and become perimeter players we might have a Cup by now. It's too late now though as the core is dead. But how anyone can look back on the past 7 years and call it a success I have no idea. To me it was a disappointment. We had all that talent and are still Cupless. Now we're handcuffed to a lot of those players who have now either become deadweight or a symbol of failure and that's leading to dark times ahead. It sucks.

Cups? No no this is the true failure of the past seven years:

http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/16364
http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/8136

I don't hate the Sedins for not further putting the team on their back to win a Cup. Just as I don't hate Luongo for getting vastly outplayed by Thomas. Yes, it sucks as a fan that the franchise doesn't have a championship and there are definitely dark times ahead. But if nothing else why not enjoy the two greatest offensive players this franchise has seen and will ever see for a long time while it lasts?

We could all wish 2011 Tanner Glass was 2015 Michael Ferland too. That's a much better placement of bitterness, IMO.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Cups? No no this is the true failure of the past seven years:

http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/16364
http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/8136

I don't hate the Sedins for not further putting the team on their back to win a Cup. Just as I don't hate Luongo for getting vastly outplayed by Thomas. Yes, it sucks as a fan that the franchise doesn't have a championship and there are definitely dark times ahead. But if nothing else why not enjoy the two greatest offensive players this franchise has seen and will ever see for a long time while it lasts?

We could all wish 2011 Tanner Glass was 2015 Michael Ferland too. That's a much better placement of bitterness, IMO.

When the team musters 8 goals in a 7 game series, I put the blame squarely on the backs of our top offensive players.

 

[vancityluongo]

When the team musters 8 goals in a 7 game series, I put the blame squarely on the backs of our top offensive players.

For not scoring. Sure. So why are you spending so much time wishing they would throw a punch?

 

[dave babych returns]

In every other circumstance on earth, attacking someone who you know won't fight back is recognized as gutless and pathetic.

But not in hockey, according you. Because, as ever, you have it totally backwards.

No way man, it's a dog eat dog world out there - you know, in the highly controlled environment of the professional sport we're discussing - and I hate anyone who won't stoop to violence outside of gameplay for my own puerile a amusement.

How can I feel like a manly Canucks fan while those two sissies are the face of the franchise?

Etc...

 

[Bobby Digital]

It's funny how defensive people get over the Sedins. How this all started was me saying that they should defend themselves when there getting punched in the face or not handing a stick back to someone who crosschecked you 4 times before that. Espically in a playoff game. Defending yourself could be blocking someone's punch or wrapping someone up. Nowhere did I say they have to throw haymakers back or anything in that sense. You think someone who gets bullied and just cowers has guts? Lol no. The guy who stands up to the bully and pushes back has guts. There one of the least respected stars in this leauge because of that. They have no ounce of push back in them.

 

[dave babych returns]

I'm not sure you know what cower means.

In the example you provided earlier (Wideman), Henrik stands around taking it, then engages Wideman non-violently afterwards. In the old Daniel/Marchand altercation, Daniel stands around taking it.

There's no cowering, there's no fleeing, there's no cowardice.

(You know why? Because the only thing they need to 'defend' themselves from is a loss of face.. in the eyes of people who think this stuff counts.)

Unless you think that violence is the only way to respond to violence of course.

 

[a Fool]

y2k has over triple the amount of posts in this thread than the next highest poster. Don't even know why I bother opening it.

 

[Verviticus]

Hockey is a physical sport. Our "leaders" cower at the sight of physicality. It's also a main reason we lost the Calgary series,

you have no real capacity to evaluate hockey games, huh

 

[arttk]

y2k has over triple the amount of posts in this thread than the next highest poster. Don't even know why I bother opening it.

You are "debating" with a guy that boldly predicted that the Sedins would be 30ish points players this season.
Have you ever seen someone so wrong before? Only 40ish points off.

 

[dwarf]

The Canucks need a cup, and the fans deserve one for 45 years of support and no result.

The Sedins are great players, but realistically they should be traded to make way for our rebuilding team.

Letting assets like Naslund rot, until they have no value was a waste. Look at what Linden brought back in the Islander deal.

Boston showed us asset management, in the Neely deal, when they turned Barry Pederson into a gold vein. Lucic won them a cup.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1349045

There is a reason why we have no cups, and winning does not have time, for sentimentality or nostalgia.

 

[Bobby Digital]

The Canucks need a cup, and the fans deserve one for 45 years of support and no result.

The Sedins are great players, but realistically they should be traded to make way for our rebuilding team.

Letting assets like Naslund rot, until they have no value was a waste. Look at what Linden brought back in the Islander deal.

Boston showed us asset management, in the Neely deal, when they turned Barry Pederson into a gold vein. Lucic won them a cup.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1349045

There is a reason why we have no cups, and winning does not have time, for sentimentality or nostalgia.

Sadly it won't happen because where trying to win the 8th place award.

 

[beachcomber]

I think it is time to move on from the Sedins and get something for them now while they are still relatively productive. Yes, they are great people and fun to watch in the regular season but the ship has sailed and it is time move on.

 

[moog35]

It's funny how defensive people get over the Sedins. How this all started was me saying the should defend themselves when there getting punched in the face or not handing a stick back to someone who crosschecked 4 times before that. Espically in a playoff game. Defending yourself could be blocking someone's punch or wrapping someone up. Nowhere did I say they have to throw haymakers back or anything in that sense. You think someone who gets bullied and just cowers has guts? Lol no. The guy who stands up to the bully and pushes back has guts. There one of the least respected stars in this leauge because of that. They have no ounce of push back in them.

This pretty much sums it up

I don't expect the Sedins to fight but for god sakes show some push back every once in a while, especially in the playoffs. These guys don't stick up for themselves, their teammates or even their own brother. No other stars show this little push back in the NHL today, not Crosby, Girioux, Malkin, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, etc….. Even Jiri Hudler and Gaudreau were sticking up for themselves in the playoffs and they are way smaller than the Sedins. Henrik and Daniel are to busy taking punches to the head and handing the guys stick back.

I can't wait until our team captain is someone like Horvat or Virtanen, and there is no more talk about this team being to soft cause the leadership actually sticks up for themselves and each other

 

[moog35]

Those players are going to do it because they know they don't have to answer the bell. Nobody from this team is going to do anything, and the Sedins are just going to stand there and take it.

I imagine it's very disheartening seeing these guys as leaders and watching them stand there and let other people just pummel them.

As a tougher player like Bieksa for example it must get pretty tiring sticking up for the twins when you know they wouldn't do the same for you and they won't even stick up for themselves.

Watching your captain get pushed around and just stand there and take it while his twin brother (an assistant captain) just stands there and watches must be pretty deflating to the rest of the team especially in a playoff series where any little advantage counts

 

[Addison Rae]

people actually think being able to punch someone's face is a valuable hockey asset? it's quite sad that you guys are exactly like the guy you seem to loathe (jimbo) stuck in the past with your hockey philosophies.

I seriously don't see how fighting back makes the Sedins better players, lol. the fact that some of you are waiting for a player that's worse in junior hockey than the Sedins are in the NHL to be part of our leadership core because he's a face puncher is hilarious. almost as hilarious as the guy who constantly wants the Canucks to add top line players, but wants to replace the 4th most productive player in the league since 2006/2007 with David Clarkson and Nathan Horton.

 

[y2kcanucks]

people actually think being able to punch someone's face is a valuable hockey asset? it's quite sad that you guys are exactly like the guy you seem to loathe (jimbo) stuck in the past with your hockey philosophies.

I seriously don't see how fighting back makes the Sedins better players, lol. the fact that some of you are waiting for a player that's worse in junior hockey than the Sedins are in the NHL to be part of our leadership core because he's a face puncher is hilarious. almost as hilarious as the guy who constantly wants the Canucks to add top line players, but wants to replace the 4th most productive player in the league since 2006/2007 with David Clarkson and Nathan Horton.

Because it's disheartening and downright embarrassing to see these guys just stand there letting people pound the **** out of them. No one is saying they have to be fighters like Clarkson, but for ****s sake fight back when someone is taking liberties with you. When Marchand was punching Daniel in the face he should have at least tied him up and thrown him to the ice. When Wideman was crosschecking him Daniel should have hit back. Instead, he picked up Wideman's stick and gave it back to him. How utterly disgraceful is that?

Reminds me of when Ehrhoff stood there yelling at Eager in response to when Eager took a run and smashed Daniel from behind in the playoffs. Disgraceful.

 

[Samzilla]

When the team musters 8 goals in a 7 game series, I put the blame squarely on the backs of our top offensive players.

when chara's allowed to crosscheck hank 6-8 times in the back with no penalty being called, you're not going to score goals

when peverley's allowed to tomahawk chop bieksa's calf and have beeska called a diver instead, and no penalty is called, you're not going to score goals

when boychuck's allowed to can-opener raymond, completely away from the play, into the boards breaking his back while the crowd chants flopper and no penalty is called, you're not going to score goals

 

[y2kcanucks]

when chara's allowed to crosscheck hank 6-8 times in the back with no penalty being called, you're not going to score goals

when peverley's allowed to tomahawk chop bieksa's calf and have beeska called a diver instead, and no penalty is called, you're not going to score goals

when boychuck's allowed to can-opener raymond, completely away from the play, into the boards breaking his back while the crowd chants flopper and no penalty is called, you're not going to score goals

I don't see what any of that has to do with scoring goals.

What's the excuse for the Calgary series?

 

[Zarpan]

I don't see what any of that has to do with scoring goals.

What's the excuse for the Calgary series?

The top lines often get locked down in the playoffs, so it becomes up to secondary scoring to make up the difference.

Take a look at what's happening in the SCF.

Patrick Kane: 5 GP, 0 Goals, 1 Assist, -1
Jonathan Toews: 5 GP, 1 Goal, 2 Assists, +2
Steven Stamkos: 5 GP, 0 Goals, 1 Assist, -1
Tyler Johnson: 5 GP, 1 Goal, 1 Assist, +1

Toews may go down in history as one of the greatest playoff leaders and winners in NHL history, and his current PPG in Finals games is 0.65 PPG, which I believe is a level that you considered quite mediocre when talking about expectations for the Sedins before.

Here's playoff production from 2008 onwards (after the Naslund era)

Kane: 0.97 PPG
Henrik: 0.94 PPG
Daniel: 0.90 PPG
Toews: 0.88 PPG
Kopitar: 0.86 PPG

The reality is that the Sedins have produced in-line offensively with many other top players in the playoffs, but the Canucks haven't had the same offensive and defensive depth as the championship teams. The Kings and Blackhawks can have their top offensive players average 0.9 PPG in the playoffs (and less during the SCF) and walk away with 4 (and maybe 5) championships. The Canucks get bounced in the first or second round most of the time instead.

 

[Regal]

The top lines often get locked down in the playoffs, so it becomes up to secondary scoring to make up the difference.

Take a look at what's happening in the SCF.

Patrick Kane: 5 GP, 0 Goals, 1 Assist, -1
Jonathan Toews: 5 GP, 1 Goal, 2 Assists, +2
Steven Stamkos: 5 GP, 0 Goals, 1 Assist, -1
Tyler Johnson: 5 GP, 1 Goal, 1 Assist, +1

Toews may go down in history as one of the greatest playoff leaders and winners in NHL history, and his current PPG in Finals games is 0.65 PPG, which I believe is a level that you considered quite mediocre when talking about expectations for the Sedins before.

Here's playoff production from 2008 onwards (after the Naslund era)

Kane: 0.97 PPG
Henrik: 0.94 PPG
Daniel: 0.90 PPG
Toews: 0.88 PPG
Kopitar: 0.86 PPG

The reality is that the Sedins have produced in-line offensively with many other top players in the playoffs, but the Canucks haven't had the same offensive and defensive depth as the championship teams. The Kings and Blackhawks can have their top offensive players average 0.9 PPG in the playoffs (and less during the SCF) and walk away with 4 (and maybe 5) championships. The Canucks get bounced in the first or second round most of the time instead.

To be fair, points don't always tell the story either. There were times, particularly in the finals run that the Sedins were dreadful defensively. Though, ironically that was probably their worst playoffs overall.

Agree on the secondary scoring though. I think some people over rate the team when looking back and saying how talented it was a few years ago. It was a good team sure, but in many ways the Sedins made the rest of the team look better offensively. I'd be curious to see the numbers but it always felt as if the secondary scoring only came about with regularity if the game was already opened up by a lead. I think the Sedins really masked the scoring depth in the regular season, and once things got tighter in the playoffs, they couldn't do it to the same extent.

 

[moog35]

The top lines often get locked down in the playoffs, so it becomes up to secondary scoring to make up the difference.

Take a look at what's happening in the SCF.

Patrick Kane: 5 GP, 0 Goals, 1 Assist, -1
Jonathan Toews: 5 GP, 1 Goal, 2 Assists, +2
Steven Stamkos: 5 GP, 0 Goals, 1 Assist, -1
Tyler Johnson: 5 GP, 1 Goal, 1 Assist, +1

Toews may go down in history as one of the greatest playoff leaders and winners in NHL history, and his current PPG in Finals games is 0.65 PPG, which I believe is a level that you considered quite mediocre when talking about expectations for the Sedins before.

Here's playoff production from 2008 onwards (after the Naslund era)

Kane: 0.97 PPG
Henrik: 0.94 PPG
Daniel: 0.90 PPG
Toews: 0.88 PPG
Kopitar: 0.86 PPG

The reality is that the Sedins have produced in-line offensively with many other top players in the playoffs, but the Canucks haven't had the same offensive and defensive depth as the championship teams. The Kings and Blackhawks can have their top offensive players average 0.9 PPG in the playoffs (and less during the SCF) and walk away with 4 (and maybe 5) championships. The Canucks get bounced in the first or second round most of the time instead.

All those players you listed are plus players in their playoff careers. The Sedins are plus players in the regular season but minus players in their playoff careers. So unlike Toews, Kane, Kopitar, when the Sedins aren't scoring goals they are not contributing good defensive play, or grit, or anything at all really

 

[Alan Jackson]

The top lines often get locked down in the playoffs, so it becomes up to secondary scoring to make up the difference.

Take a look at what's happening in the SCF.

Patrick Kane: 5 GP, 0 Goals, 1 Assist, -1
Jonathan Toews: 5 GP, 1 Goal, 2 Assists, +2
Steven Stamkos: 5 GP, 0 Goals, 1 Assist, -1
Tyler Johnson: 5 GP, 1 Goal, 1 Assist, +1

Toews may go down in history as one of the greatest playoff leaders and winners in NHL history, and his current PPG in Finals games is 0.65 PPG, which I believe is a level that you considered quite mediocre when talking about expectations for the Sedins before.

Here's playoff production from 2008 onwards (after the Naslund era)

Kane: 0.97 PPG
Henrik: 0.94 PPG
Daniel: 0.90 PPG
Toews: 0.88 PPG
Kopitar: 0.86 PPG

The reality is that the Sedins have produced in-line offensively with many other top players in the playoffs, but the Canucks haven't had the same offensive and defensive depth as the championship teams. The Kings and Blackhawks can have their top offensive players average 0.9 PPG in the playoffs (and less during the SCF) and walk away with 4 (and maybe 5) championships. The Canucks get bounced in the first or second round most of the time instead.

You make excellent points, but the poster in question won't acknowledge them.

You want to talk about cowering, or not being man enough for a fight, that's this particular poster when challenged with facts. He runs and hides.