Post-Game Talk: Dallas 6, Canucks 3. Part II.
- Thread starter The Stig
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My feels.
Bourne Endeavor
Registered User
Some saving grace is Bonino added last season with a respectable 48.8% on 1194 draws. With that in mind, I'd roll...
Sedin - Sedin - Vrbata
Vey - Bonino - Burrows
Higgins - Horvat - Kassian
Matthias - Richardson - Hansen
Dorsett
Vey either learns to play on the left side or he sits. He's abysmal at center and we're log jammed on the right side, unless Burrows moves over. I'd give Vey a chance on the top line to see if a glimmer of his pre-season magic comes back, however we should be looking to acquire a decent top-six winger if we want any chance of competing this season; Lupul and Flash come to mind.
Sedin - Sedin - Vrbata
Vey - Bonino - Burrows
Higgins - Horvat - Kassian
Matthias - Richardson - Hansen
Dorsett
Vey either learns to play on the left side or he sits. He's abysmal at center and we're log jammed on the right side, unless Burrows moves over. I'd give Vey a chance on the top line to see if a glimmer of his pre-season magic comes back, however we should be looking to acquire a decent top-six winger if we want any chance of competing this season; Lupul and Flash come to mind.
Proto
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2010
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Lmao @ people freaking out about faceoffs. You don't want to be at the bottom of the league, but next to hits it's one of the least useful statistics. A lost faceoff leads to about 10 seconds of puck possession on average. If you win even a paltry 45% of your draws, it's only 5 draws out of 50 for a 50-second swing in puck possession.
We're talking about maybe giving up an extra 1-2 shot attempts a game. Even if you think it leads to more puck possession than that, it's not going to be more than 3-4 shot attempts a game, maybe 2 of which land on net. So at a league average save percentage, maybe an extra goal against every 7 games, if the team continues to be terrible at them. It's probably even less than that, as I'd anticipate Hank or Richardson taking defensive zone draws more than Bonino or Vey.
I think you stick it out with Vey and let him work on it. He's a rookie. He's not going to get better watching someone else take them, and this team certainly isn't in a position where they need to be harming player development in order to sneak into the post-season. If they stay healthy and the younger players develop, they might sneak in. If not, it's a deep draft, and the team is on a mostly positive track at this point (I think).
People need to take a deep breath.
We're talking about maybe giving up an extra 1-2 shot attempts a game. Even if you think it leads to more puck possession than that, it's not going to be more than 3-4 shot attempts a game, maybe 2 of which land on net. So at a league average save percentage, maybe an extra goal against every 7 games, if the team continues to be terrible at them. It's probably even less than that, as I'd anticipate Hank or Richardson taking defensive zone draws more than Bonino or Vey.
I think you stick it out with Vey and let him work on it. He's a rookie. He's not going to get better watching someone else take them, and this team certainly isn't in a position where they need to be harming player development in order to sneak into the post-season. If they stay healthy and the younger players develop, they might sneak in. If not, it's a deep draft, and the team is on a mostly positive track at this point (I think).
People need to take a deep breath.
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BeardyCanuck03
@BeardyCanuck03
Wasn't able to watch the game but seeing the highlights of the goals, I think overanalyzing this game isn't going to lead to anything productive. A bit of bad luck created a hole that the Canucks couldn't climb out of, despite putting together a solid attempt.
Fat Tony
Fire Benning
- Nov 28, 2011
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DL44
Status quo
Erhroff I 100% attribute to the fall of our PP and scoring... our transition game has never been the same...
Yeah... I meant Jenning Trophy winning D...
And forgive me for not changing my opinion with every win or every loss that comes... I'm not a sky is falling kinda guy with a couple of losses... nor do i swing the other way with a couple of wins... I've remained consistent from moment camp opened.
Pros...
Allow me to pull out the AV quote... "Its about the process"...
The process, ie. style and systems of play, is a much better product... Top line is a top level top line, the PP looks more effective, Burrows is Burrows, PK is once again great looking...
I think they'll be more responsive to our coach over 82 than our last one...
Cons...
Need to find a more consistent push from our middle 6 @ 5-on-5...
Defensive lapses need to cease...
If there is anything to take outta last yr, is that Hamhuis and Bieksa had a really rough beginning of the season last October as well (especially Hammer)... and they bounced back nicely..I expect the exact same thing this yr from the 2 vets...
Onward to the next game! I zero interest in crying about a loss for more than 2 posts.
Here's to a bounceback performance from the D and Miller and a win to move to 4-2-0... We finally get to get in our groove with a game every other day...
Cheers!
Proto
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2010
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True, but they're damn close. Either way, it's one of those features of hockey that's driven into the ground by analysts/fans -- needlessly.
Couldn't agree with you more, only thing I'd add is that hamhuis was actually playing extraordinary until he had to wear the full mask, I think it's really hurting his game. Hopefully Bieksa starts playing better, hes been making a ton of errors.
NoShowWilly
Registered User
The game highlights shows me this really shouldn't have been a 5-0, 6-1 game at any point.
- Burrows scores on miller.
- Tanev falls into Miller.
- Tanev is badly interfered with and it should have been a penalty. happens and i've seen the Canucks get away with those types of things, especially the Sedins. Obviously you hope for a save there.
- Miller makes a save and it catches the knob. that might happen twice a season.
- Higgins giving up on a play with the game out of hand as well as Hamhuis looking pretty poor.
- Puck off Cole's leg.
Dallas put themselves in positions to succeed and got rewarded. It happens but rarely will it ever go this favourably for a team.
We have another 12 games over the next 20 days. We'll have a much stronger idea of where the team stands in this league at that time. Play many of the best teams in the league through that time including a road trip to california. We could be very much sunk by the end.
- Burrows scores on miller.
- Tanev falls into Miller.
- Tanev is badly interfered with and it should have been a penalty. happens and i've seen the Canucks get away with those types of things, especially the Sedins. Obviously you hope for a save there.
- Miller makes a save and it catches the knob. that might happen twice a season.
- Higgins giving up on a play with the game out of hand as well as Hamhuis looking pretty poor.
- Puck off Cole's leg.
Dallas put themselves in positions to succeed and got rewarded. It happens but rarely will it ever go this favourably for a team.
We have another 12 games over the next 20 days. We'll have a much stronger idea of where the team stands in this league at that time. Play many of the best teams in the league through that time including a road trip to california. We could be very much sunk by the end.
Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
I'm a little confused as to how pointing out that we're 29th in FO% is considered A) freaking out, or B) Not taking a deep breath?
I'm pointing out that we're near last place in a statistic, and it's also not as insignificant a stat as you make it out to be. Possession is important, starting with the puck is important, and plenty of goals get scored off won draws. Being an average faceoff team is fine and dandy, being one of the worst is not.
Nucker101
Foundational Poster
- Apr 2, 2013
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Not sure why some people are suddenly in panic mode. What did you guys expect? This is gonna be a mediocre 8-1th in the West type of team. And when we play Willie's system(which I'm a big fan of) against teams with more speed/skill and finishing abililty than us then we're going to get burned like this on some nights.
Everyone who read up on the system Willie wants to play and saw the first few games realizes that this roster doesn't have enough speed/skill/creativity yet to play Willie's system to it's full effectiveness, we're gonna have to give Benning the chance to continue to adjust the roster while we wait for the young talent to develop.
The Canucks didn't really even play that bad, the scoring chances were pretty even in the first period IMO but the Canucks didn't get the big save(s) and couldn't finish on their chances like the Stars.
Everyone who read up on the system Willie wants to play and saw the first few games realizes that this roster doesn't have enough speed/skill/creativity yet to play Willie's system to it's full effectiveness, we're gonna have to give Benning the chance to continue to adjust the roster while we wait for the young talent to develop.
The Canucks didn't really even play that bad, the scoring chances were pretty even in the first period IMO but the Canucks didn't get the big save(s) and couldn't finish on their chances like the Stars.
They still owned the leagues number one PP without Ehrhoff. Salo's concussion after being submarined by Marchand was the beginning of Edler's fall and the PP's woes.
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
I just hope people don't jump all over Horvat when he comes in and struggles. Rookies are inconsistent and very very rarely are they successful on face-offs. Horvat is a great prospect but I hope people don't expect him to be the saviour.
Nucker101
Foundational Poster
- Apr 2, 2013
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Agreed. I expect him to be inconsistent in the FO circle and offensively for sure.
ihaveyuidonttouchme
MrShiftbyShiftGuy
really? we ran Schroeder out the door waay before him playing 82 games and Vey is already taking the heat...Horvat will come next (Jensen+Corrado r inconclusive but do recall taking some heat )
other than that, agreed on all part
Proto
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2010
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I'd say the overall tenor of this thread/board contains more than a few people that seem to be overreacting and freaking out, to the point where I wonder what people's expectations were headed into this season. I didn't respond to anyone specifically, though.
It is absolutely as insignificant as I pointed it out to be. It would be helpful to win a few more draws, but the disparity between "bad" and "mediocre" isn't enormous. Over the course of a season I'd put the difference between 45% and 48% at no more than maybe two or three goals over a season. Even if you want to double that, you're not looking at more than a "win" over the course of a season (somewhere around 6 goals per win in the standings the last time I checked).
Now, if you could go from being a 45% team to a 52-53% team, you might be talking about a couple wins over a season if you're generous. That's not insignificant, but people are focusing down too hard on powerplays.
biturbo19
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2010
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It's funny...so many of the people who are first aboard the "blow it up and tank" bandwagon, are the least tolerant of rookie mistakes and learning process.
It's as though many here expect that rookies are going to be able to come in and dominate without missing a beat.
Some unrealistic conceptions of what "youth" in the lineup looks like.
Linden Vey is the only "youth" in the lineup.
edit* I can certainly live with youth getting torched like they did last night, not the veteran goalies and 1st pair on defense. Last night can't be pinned on youth at all, moreso just an average team getting beat by a good team. I loved what the coach had to say about it last night.
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Bourne Endeavor
Registered User
I wager you are simply reading too much into a discussion. It's not like we have much else to talk about regarding the game, and I would certainly prefer faceoffs being a focal point than rehash whether Santorelli should have been re-signed for the umpteenth time.
really? we ran Schroeder out the door waay before him playing 82 games and Vey is already taking the heat...Horvat will come next (Jensen+Corrado r inconclusive but do recall taking some heat )
other than that, agreed on all part
Schroeder was 23-24 and had failed utterly as a prospect. Not really the same thing.
And criticism Vey is taking is fair. Nobody is saying he's a bust or that he should be dumped, just that some of his weaknesses are a bit of a concern and need to be managed. And that his scads of PP time don't really seem earned.
Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
Agreed with this. It would be great if he could be a helpful asset straight away, but I think there's a lot of high expectations that could do with some tempering.
As you say.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Yeah, I don't think expectations of Horvat will be that high. This is Horvat's second season post draft. In comparison, this is Veys FIFTH season post draft, having spent 3 full seasons playing against men already. His criticism stems from getting powder soft ice time and still managing to look lost and over matched defensively.
I'll give Vey time, but his overall game is quite weak for a player that has 3 full pro's seasons already. If Horvat is where Vey is in 4 seasons, yeah I'd expect him to be getting roasted (a la Schroeder).
Proto
Registered User
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Fair enough. My opinion was based on research people have done into the effects of faceoffs on puck possession, but it doesn't really matter in the end. If people want to worry about faceoffs, they can have at it. That's sports -- we're all invariably worrying about something dumb, regardless
Proto
Registered User
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I'd say after 5 games, the "can we waive him next month" type of comments are laughable. I'd rather wait 20 or 30 games to see how the team is playing WD's system before drawing many conclusions. Making the observation as something to keep an eye on (as some have done) is totally fair game though IMO.
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