Dahlin vs Heiskanen

[toomuchsauce]

oh ffs with this

 

[Jugitsu]

Only thing this kind of thread accomplishes is creating dislike against said players across fanbases. That's a shame because neither player deserves to get nit picked about their flaws and shortcomings but instead should be marveled and enjoyed by everybody.

I never even understood the comparison. Different draft class, different age, different kind of style. And arguably totally different projections of potential. I've loved Heiskanen ever since I first saw him at Liiga but I kind of have to agree to an extent with some of the posters here: Dahlin is in a league of his own. It's really not fair to compare any young D to him. And it's counter productive IMO.

 

[valet]

Miro is good, but ras is better

Tbh I think miro's game is way less refined, and although he has all the tools to be an elite defenseman, the game just comes easier for dahlin.... By a fair margin

 

[Just doink]

Every measure this year shows Dahlin ahead except tied for goals. Go back a few pages and look at analytics. There is actual proof that Dahlin is much better this year. Also, the three game argument works if Heiskanen was better than Dahlin last year. He wasn't in analytics or points. I don't see how anyone can say Heiskanen is better right now. There are no numbers that validate that statement. The numbers suggest the exact opposite. They show Dahlin is pulling away

100% Heiskanen was better last year, this season has just began so we'll wait does the tables turn. Numbers showed that Dahlin played safe minutes in a much weaker team last season, Miro was one of the of main man on a good playoffs-team. I don't know/care how some weird analytics ca prove him better when said all that.

 

[TT1]

ainec dahlin ainec

a neck

 

[MikeK]

Dahlin. Easily.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Apparently Vince Dunn is better than both of them.

NHL top 25 under 25: Ranking hockey's best young stars for 2019-20

Seems we 've all been put in our place by "esteemed" hockey minds like.....Steve Kournianos.

 

[lauraP]

Apparently Vince Dunn is better than both of them.

NHL top 25 under 25: Ranking hockey's best young stars for 2019-20

Seems we 've all been put in our place by "esteemed" hockey minds like.....Steve Kournianos.

Lol the guy who ranked Svechnikov > Dahlin

 

[Mackinnonen]

Dahlin easily. This is like asking, who is better? Crosby or getzlaf? Ovechkin or kessel? Mcdavid or Eichel? All great talents but the gap is obviously big.

 

[sufferer]

100% Heiskanen was better last year, this season has just began so we'll wait does the tables turn. Numbers showed that Dahlin played safe minutes in a much weaker team last season, Miro was one of the of main man on a good playoffs-team. I don't know/care how some weird analytics ca prove him better when said all that.

Funny how widely used metrics suddenly become weird because they make your player look worse in comparison. If TOI meant anything in it of itself, Ristolainen would be well regarded.

 

[FamilyGuy716]

100% Heiskanen was better last year, this season has just began so we'll wait does the tables turn. Numbers showed that Dahlin played safe minutes in a much weaker team last season, Miro was one of the of main man on a good playoffs-team. I don't know/care how some weird analytics ca prove him better when said all that.

OK... I'll go along with you, out with analytics. How about this, last year Dahlin averaged 2 minutes less per game yet outscored him by 11 points while being a year younger.

 

[Kcb12345]

OK... I'll go along with you, out with analytics. How about this, last year Dahlin averaged 2 minutes less per game yet outscored him by 11 points while being a year younger.

Both players had 24 points at even strength and then one saw a lot of top PP time. There's your difference. And no, it's not because Dahlin is better. It's because you don't replace one of the best PP quarterbacks in the NHL in John Klingberg in your rookie season.

Feels relevant to mention this now as well:

Heiskanen's points away from Benn-Seguin-Radulov: 20 out of 33 points

Dahlin's points away from Reinhart-Eichel-Skinner: 9 out of 44 points

I do believe Dahlin will be the higher point producer throughout his career, but let's not ignore the facts and pretend he's drastically better. It's closer than everyone thinks they just don't want his precious #1 overall and "generational" title to be "ruined" by someone performing close to or at his level

 

[NextYear67]

People saying Heisk are just over thinking it in typical HF fashion. Its really not close.

 

[Just doink]

OK... I'll go along with you, out with analytics. How about this, last year Dahlin averaged 2 minutes less per game yet outscored him by 11 points while being a year younger.

Year younger?

Dahlin made good points, Miro played better deffensivily while not being bag of sand with the puck neither.

 

[TheTwelfth]

Year younger?

Dahlin made good points, Miro played better deffensivily while not being bag of sand with the puck neither.

Except the numbers show he didn't.

 

[FamilyGuy716]

Both players had 24 points at even strength and then one saw a lot of top PP time. There's your difference. And no, it's not because Dahlin is better. It's because you don't replace one of the best PP quarterbacks in the NHL in John Klingberg in your rookie season.

Feels relevant to mention this now as well:

Heiskanen's points away from Benn-Seguin-Radulov: 20 out of 33 points

Dahlin's points away from Reinhart-Eichel-Skinner: 9 out of 44 points

I do believe Dahlin will be the higher point producer throughout his career, but let's not ignore the facts and pretend he's drastically better. It's closer than everyone thinks they just don't want his precious #1 overall and "generational" title to be "ruined" by someone performing close to or at his level

Heiskanen played on the PP but wasn't very good.

The following is from the HockeyWriters...

A major difference comes with each player’s contribution to their teams’ power play. Heiskanen struggled during his rookie season with the man advantage, proving to be mostly a liability and allowing more expected goals than he contributed. Dahlin proved to be an absolute stud on the power play, showing signs of being the elite offensive defenceman he was always touted to be.

 

[Roksta]

Heiskanen played on the PP but wasn't very good.

The following is from the HockeyWriters...

A major difference comes with each player’s contribution to their teams’ power play. Heiskanen struggled during his rookie season with the man advantage, proving to be mostly a liability and allowing more expected goals than he contributed. Dahlin proved to be an absolute stud on the power play, showing signs of being the elite offensive defenceman he was always touted to be.

Dont post facts in here the only thing Dallas fans has is their eye tests

 

[Alexandrov]

Heiskanen played on the PP but wasn't very good.

The following is from the HockeyWriters...

A major difference comes with each player’s contribution to their teams’ power play. Heiskanen struggled during his rookie season with the man advantage, proving to be mostly a liability and allowing more expected goals than he contributed. Dahlin proved to be an absolute stud on the power play, showing signs of being the elite offensive defenceman he was always touted to be.

Hol' up. The claim is that when Heiskanen was on ice on power play, the PK team had more shots from higher danger areas than the team actually on power play?? There is no way that is true for any player in the league, right?

"Heiskanen struggled during his rookie season with the man advantage, proving to be mostly a liability and allowing more expected goals than he contributed."

 

[Kcb12345]

Dont post facts in here the only thing Dallas fans has is their eye tests

Heiskanen played on the PP but wasn't very good.

The following is from the HockeyWriters...

A major difference comes with each player’s contribution to their teams’ power play. Heiskanen struggled during his rookie season with the man advantage, proving to be mostly a liability and allowing more expected goals than he contributed. Dahlin proved to be an absolute stud on the power play, showing signs of being the elite offensive defenceman he was always touted to be.

Yes eye test is what I used apparently on my post that was just mentioning stats/facts....okay bud you might wanna sit this one out

And you seem to be missing the point. Heiskanen did NOT play on the top PP unit outside of a few times. Playing on the 2nd PP unit on one of worst offensive teams in the NHL believe it or not is gonna have an effect on the players stats. Way to ignore the rest of my post as well. How much PP TOI did Dahlin get vs Heiskanen again? 232 to Heiskanen's 147. That's 42+ more powerplay opportunities than Heiskanen. It's the only reason Dahlin had more points last season. Much easier to replace Ristolainen than Klingberg on the PP

 

[Unspecified]

People saying Heisk are just over thinking it in typical HF fashion. Its really not close.

It really is close though, thanks for coming out!

 

[Testarific]

Yes eye test is what I used apparently on my post that was just mentioning stats/facts....okay bud you might wanna sit this one out

And you seem to be missing the point. Heiskanen did NOT play on the top PP unit outside of a few times. Playing on the 2nd PP unit on one of worst offensive teams in the NHL believe it or not is gonna have an effect on the players stats. Way to ignore the rest of my post as well. How much PP TOI did Dahlin get vs Heiskanen again? 232 to Heiskanen's 147. That's 42+ more powerplay opportunities than Heiskanen. It's the only reason Dahlin had more points last season. Much easier to replace Ristolainen than Klingberg on the PP

So does Dahlin get a pass for being on one of the worst teams in the league? That should definitely have an effect on his stats.

Plus, you do know Risto is one of the top PP QBs in the league right? He's not great 5v5, but he shines on the powerplay...

 

[Kcb12345]

So does Dahlin get a pass for being on one of the worst teams in the league? That should definitely have an effect on his stats.

Plus, you do know Risto is one of the top PP QBs in the league right? He's not great 5v5, but he shines on the powerplay...

Buffalo was better than Dallas offensively so no he doesn't get a pass for that

 

[NextYear67]

It really is close though, thanks for coming out!

Imagine a world where that was true

 

[YEGJuniorFan]

Lucky for me I have both in my keeper pool. And Chabot.

 

[hairylikebear]

Heiskanen played on the PP but wasn't very good.

The following is from the HockeyWriters...

A major difference comes with each player’s contribution to their teams’ power play. Heiskanen struggled during his rookie season with the man advantage, proving to be mostly a liability and allowing more expected goals than he contributed. Dahlin proved to be an absolute stud on the power play, showing signs of being the elite offensive defenceman he was always touted to be.

You're not reading the chart correctly. The y axis is standard deviations from the mean. -1 just means his unit contributed slightly fewer xG on the PP than the average unit.