Current players that are worthy of being in the HHOF

[Moops]

Lets ease up on those rains shall we.

No particular order:
Datysuk
Gainey
Lehtinen
Possibly Clarke (Even though he never won the award)
Carbonneau

It's hard to compare Bergeron to past defensive forwards, since modern stats have changed Selke voting. It's hard to quantify how good Sainey actually was. But Bergeron is clearly the best of his generation--Datsyuk belonging to a previous generation, and frankly Bergeron is so dominant today that I'm not convinced Datsyuk is any better. When you consider that defensive play tends to correlate with offensive output, Bergeron has a leg up on everyone *except* Datsyuk in that regard.

Bergeron absolutely has a case from greatest defensive forward of all time--at the very least he has a chance to end up with the greatest Selke voting record of all time. I'm assuming he'll probably win this year. He needs:

A 2nd+3rd+4th+9th to match Guy Carbonneau
Roughly the same results to match Jere Lehtinen & overtake Datsyuk
1st + 2nd a couple of top tens to match Gainey.

Basically if he bags four more nominations and wins the trophy one more time, he'll have a resume up there with the greatest defensive forwards ever. It's also not out of the question that he hits some stupid round number like 1,000 points to put him over the top in terms of HHOF consideration. He's not even 30 yet, so for all we know he could bag seven trophies before he's done. He absolutely has a case.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

The Hawks have 4 hall of famers on their team right now. Hossa and Keith are locks. Toews and Kane are well on their way.

 

[Fire Sweeney]

Jagr, Crosby, Ovechkin, Chara, Iginla, McDavid

 

[Hardyvan123]

Hall of very good: Patrick Marleau, Vincent Lecavalier, Ray Whitney, Sergei Gonchar, Patrick Elias, Marian Gaborik, Shane Doan, Dan Boyle, Jason Spezza, Dany Heatley, Eric Staal, Alex Tanguay, Roberto Luongo, Phil Kessel, Rick Nash, Kimmo Timonen, Andrei Markov, Evgeni Nabokov, Ryan Miller,

HHOF worthy: Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin, Evgeni Malkin, Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane, Martin St. Louis, Jarome Iginla, Joe Thornton, Martin Brodeur, Jaromir Jagr, Marian Hossa, Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, Zdeno Chara, Duncan Keith, Erik Karlsson, Patrice Bergeron.

Debatable: Tim Thomas, Henrik Lundqvist, Anze Kopitar, Nicklas Backstrom, Jonathan Quick, Henrik & Daniel Sedin, Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf (winning the Cup this year would help them tremendously), PK Subban, Drew Doughty, Shea Weber, Carey Price, Claude Giroux & John Tavares (will both need some top 3 finishes down the stretch to make a case for themselves).

Agree/disagree?

Quite a few of the debatable guys are tracking very well for HHOF careers

 

[Hardyvan123]

It's hard to compare Bergeron to past defensive forwards, since modern stats have changed Selke voting. It's hard to quantify how good Sainey actually was. But Bergeron is clearly the best of his generation--Datsyuk belonging to a previous generation, and frankly Bergeron is so dominant today that I'm not convinced Datsyuk is any better. When you consider that defensive play tends to correlate with offensive output, Bergeron has a leg up on everyone *except* Datsyuk in that regard.

Bergeron absolutely has a case from greatest defensive forward of all time--at the very least he has a chance to end up with the greatest Selke voting record of all time. I'm assuming he'll probably win this year. He needs:

A 2nd+3rd+4th+9th to match Guy Carbonneau
Roughly the same results to match Jere Lehtinen & overtake Datsyuk
1st + 2nd a couple of top tens to match Gainey.

Basically if he bags four more nominations and wins the trophy one more time, he'll have a resume up there with the greatest defensive forwards ever. It's also not out of the question that he hits some stupid round number like 1,000 points to put him over the top in terms of HHOF consideration. He's not even 30 yet, so for all we know he could bag seven trophies before he's done. He absolutely has a case.

Yes it is out question that he will even get clsoe to 1000 points.

that being said he is tracking to be a HHOF guy if he can maintain somewhat his level of play for 4-5ish more years

 

[kmillzy5]

Ilya Kovalchuk should be in the hall of fame.

Also, not so sure Bergeron is a lock by any means. Jere Lehtinen won 3 selkes and still hasn't been voted in. Pretty similar stats too.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

If Chara is worth being in the HHOF then Kronwall should be mentioned in the running at least. Chara is a good dman, But I doubt think he makes it to the hall.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

If Chara is worth being in the HHOF then Kronwall should be mentioned in the running at least. Chara is a good dman, But I doubt think he makes it to the hall.

What has Kronwall done that's note worthy? He will be remembered for his crushing hits, that's practically it.

Ilya Kovalchuk should be in the hall of fame.

Also, not so sure Bergeron is a lock by any means. Jere Lehtinen won 3 selkes and still hasn't been voted in. Pretty similar stats too.

Not really comparable stats imo. 135 GP for Lehtinen and 36 less pts for him. Better PO stats for Bergeron and we all know that a center is valued more than a winger.

 

[weastern bias]

And if that doesn't work. He'll just demand a trade to the MLB hall of fame..

I lold

 

[SpookyTsuki]

What has Kronwall done that's note worthy? He will be remembered for his crushing hits, that's practically it.

He's scoring the same as Chara more or less

Both are good in the defensive zones. I dont see how Chara is special. He really only had a couple of good years.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Both are good in the defensive zones. I dont see how Chara is special. He really only had a couple of good years.

Chara was a first or second team all-star before the lockout...

Let's get really arbitrary and say that Chara's HOF resume starts from the 09 Norris and runs through turning into stone in the '13 finals. That's a five year prime better than Kronwall's career. Period.

 

[ldnk]

I think Brodeur, Iginla and Jagr are all but guaranteed. The rest I feel are debatable, guys like Ovi and Crosby may have their careers totally come off the rails (highly unlikely) so I'll leave them off for now.

Even if Ovechkin became a 10 goal/year scorer for the rest of his career he's still easily going to hit 1000 points and 500 goals. He's a lock.

Similar thing with Crosby. Even if his career ended this year he already has World Junior and Olympic Gold as well as a Stanley Cup. Peter Forsberg already set a benchmark for getting into the HoF quickly with 885 points in 708 career games. Crosby has 853 points in 627 games.

Both Ovechkin and Crosby are locks for the HoF and are likely both already locked in as first ballot guys.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

He's scoring the same as Chara more or less

Both are good in the defensive zones. I dont see how Chara is special. He really only had a couple of good years.

Chara has a lot of things going for him. A cup where him and Seidenberg were the top guys handling the workload. A Norris trophy. The fact that he was a freak specimen. A record-breaking slapshot and a prime that timed well with Lidstrom's retirement. Him and Kronwall are not comparable at all IMO.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Chara was a first or second team all-star before the lockout...

Let's get really arbitrary and say that Chara's HOF resume starts from the 09 Norris and runs through turning into stone in the '13 finals. That's a five year prime better than Kronwall's career. Period.

So 5 good years makes you a hall of famer?

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Chara has a lot of things going for him. A cup where him and Seidenberg were the top guys handling the workload. A Norris trophy. The fact that he was a freak specimen. A record-breaking slapshot and a prime that timed well with Lidstrom's retirement. Him and Kronwall are not comparable at all IMO.

1 norris Trophy isnt all that special, There are alot of people with 1 norris that didn't make the hall of fame, The fact that hes a huge monster he should get nominated? So just because he has a hard slapshot means that he should be in the hall? I know alot of people that have a harder slapshot then him in real life, Too bad they suck at everything else

Playing top pair for a SC winning team is really the only good thing on that list The Norris is good, But 1 norris doesn't make you HOF worthy

 

[Moops]

Yes it is out question that he will even get clsoe to 1000 points.

that being said he is tracking to be a HHOF guy if he can maintain somewhat his level of play for 4-5ish more years

If he declines more gradually than average and stays healthy, I could see him going from about 55 points during his age 30 season, to 40 points during his age 37 season, which would put him at about 950 points. Put another way, Patrik Elias only had 499 points at the end of his age 29 season. He's 51 ahead of that pace.

He just might get there. He'll be close if he avoids injury.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

1 norris Trophy isnt all that special, There are alot of people with 1 norris that didn't make the hall of fame, The fact that hes a huge monster he should get nominated? So just because he has a hard slapshot means that he should be in the hall? I know alot of people that have a harder slapshot then him in real life, Too bad they suck at everything else

Playing top pair for a SC winning team is really the only good thing on that list The Norris is good, But 1 norris doesn't make you HOF worthy

What about the first All-Star team nominations? If people are going to bring up the twin factor for the Sedins, I think it's pretty relevant to bring Chara's size as an argument. I never liked him (especially following the Pacioretty incident) but I can still recognize that he belongs in the HHOF. You're stretching it if you think him and Kronwall are similar.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

If he declines more gradually than average and stays healthy, I could see him going from about 55 points during his age 30 season, to 40 points during his age 37 season, which would put him at about 950 points. Put another way, Patrik Elias only had 499 points at the end of his age 29 season. He's 51 ahead of that pace.

He just might get there. He'll be close if he avoids injury.

He wont get there Unless he plays for a while after he should be retired, He will be close, but he wont get there. Injuries will happen when you get old.

 

[Moops]

1 norris Trophy isnt all that special, There are alot of people with 1 norris that didn't make the hall of fame, The fact that hes a huge monster he should get nominated? So just because he has a hard slapshot means that he should be in the hall? I know alot of people that have a harder slapshot then him in real life, Too bad they suck at everything else

Playing top pair for a SC winning team is really the only good thing on that list The Norris is good, But 1 norris doesn't make you HOF worthy

Chara would coast into the HHOF, downhill on rollerblades, even if you wiped his Norris Trophy season out of the record books. I'd give you a list of accomplishments, but I'm sure you're smart enough to figure those out on your own.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

What about the first All-Star team nominations? If people are going to bring up the twin factor for the Sedins, I think it's pretty relevant to bring Chara's size as an argument. I never liked him (especially following the Pacioretty incident) but I can still recognize that he belongs in the HHOF. You're stretching it if you think him and Kronwall are similar.

That's a good one as well. Im just saying Chara needs to do more if he wants to make it.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

That's a good one as well. Im just saying Chara needs to do more if he wants to make it.

Nope. The stuff before and after the five year prime I outlined is the "more."

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Nope. The stuff before and after the five year prime I outlined is the "more."

what? You didnt say anything except All star team and 5 year prime, I said he needs more then 5 good years and the all star team

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

what? You didnt say anything except All star team and 5 year prime, I said he needs more then 5 good years and the all star team

You used Kronwall as a comparison as to why Chara will not get in, and I pointed out that Chara has a five year peak better than Nik's career. He's happened to do enough outside said five year prime for this not to be much of a debate. And I ****ing hate Chara.

 

[Lebowski]

It's not about restrictiveness. It's that your criteria don't make sense. You will let in some pretty soft inductees using those criteria--way softer than Elias.

It is factually incorrect to suggest he has no individual awards--he has a first team all-star.
A single instance of a huge, round number is a fairly useless criterion. You're way better off just using career totals--more sample size, plus less noise due to random sequencing. 436 adjusted goals created over 1224 games absolutely puts him into the discussion for being one of the best players in the world. I don't care if he happened to cluster a bunch of them into one 82 game stretch or not. Do you really think that 100 points+50+60 is that much better than 70+70+70? Or 95+55+60?

My God, one 1st all-star nomination? That's it, roll down the red carpet boys!

No but seriously. It's clear to me Devils fans are pretty emotional towards that debate, so I'm not sure why I bother. You can twist stats as much as you like, at the end of the day he's produced at a pace over his career similar to that of Ray Whitney. To me that simply doesn't cut it. Not even close.

You can say my criteria makes no sense. Elias has been a good player, nothing more. He's a guy along the likes of Kovalev, Marleau, Gonchar, Markov, Koivu and such, no shame in that. The HHOF, to me, should be reserved to the greats of their era. Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Thornton, St-Louis and company as far as forwards go. Elias just doesn't fit the bill.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

You used Kronwall as a comparison as to why Chara will not get in, and I pointed out that Chara has a five year peak better than Nik's career. He's happened to do enough outside said five year prime for this not to be much of a debate. And I ****ing hate Chara.

Kronners had less games and in the shadow of Lidstrom. If he didnt get injured the would have contended for the Norris, Maybe even won it.

And im not even saying Kronwall should get in.