Current players that are worthy of being in the HHOF

[Bill_Crosby*]

Elias wouldn't even be close to the worst player in the Hall. He's got over 1000 points, an excellent peak where he was without a doubt a top-3 player at his position, lead a decade in playoff scoring, won two Cups (as the leading scorer both times), and did so on a team where his offensive numbers were significantly deflated by both team and Dead Puck Era bias.

He compares favorably to Hossa and Alfredsson (he did as much as they did with much less help IMO), both of who will probably get in.

I've made a more extensive argument here comparing him to other notable players of the 2000's.

Good points raised here and thanks for posting. I wouldn't say you swayed me entirely but I definitely think if Elias had that career on a team like the Leafs or Habs it wouldn't be such a tough sell. I think playing for a smaller market and being overshadowed by all-time greats throughout his career didn't do Elias any favours.

 

[Lebowski]

Elias wouldn't even be close to the worst player in the Hall. He's got over 1000 points, an excellent peak where he was without a doubt a top-3 player at his position, lead a decade in playoff scoring, won two Cups (as the leading scorer both times), and did so on a team where his offensive numbers were significantly deflated by both team and Dead Puck Era bias.

He compares favorably to Hossa and Alfredsson (he did as much as they did with much less help IMO), both of who will probably get in.

I've made a more extensive argument here comparing him to other notable players of the 2000's.

Elias has no individual awards, was never among the best players in the league, never had a 100 points season, never had a 50 goals season...

He's been a very good player. To me that's all there is to it. People have different ideas of what should consist of an hall of famer, but I guess my vision of it is far more restrictive than yours.

 

[Terry Yake]

Locks: Jagr, Thornton, Iginla, Ovechkin, Crosby, Hossa, Lundqvist

Likely to get in: Toews, Kane, Malkin, Getzlaf, Perry, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, MSL

On the right path: Tavares, Stamkos, Weber, Karlsson, Quick, Doughty, Giroux, Keith,

Toss up: Lecavalier, Luongo, Sedins, Elias, Marleau

 

[puckyeah]

Locks: Jagr, Thornton, Iginla, Ovechkin, Crosby, Hossa, Lundqvist

Likely to get in: Toews, Kane, Malkin, Getzlaf, Perry, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, MSL

On the right path: Tavares, Stamkos, Weber, Karlsson, Quick, Doughty, Giroux, Keith,

Toss up: Lecavalier, Luongo, Sedins, Elias, Marleau

I like your list.
I would add Keith as likely to get in as well as Doughty, the rest of it i can't argue much with.

Maybe add Jamie benn to the on the right path list.

 

[shelf]

I'm not counting young guys that could boost their resumes in the next ten years (Toews, Kane, etc..). Looking at guys at the tail ends or could retire now and make it. Also not exactly "current" players but also includes guys that have recently retired.

For Sure

• Pronger
• Brodeur
• Crosby
• Ovechkin
• Thornton
• Chara
• Malkin
• Jagr
• Iggy
• Selanne
• Datsyuk

Possible (Depends on the year)

• St. Louis
• Hossa
• Alfredson
• Zetterberg

Maybe but unlikely

• Elias
• Doan
• Koivu

MSL is a lock.

1000+ points -check
Stanley Cup- check
Gold Medal-check
Art Ross- x2
Pearson- check
Hart- Check
Lady Byng- x3

 

[McDrailers]

MSL is a lock.

1000+ points -check
Stanley Cup- check
Gold Medal-check
Art Ross- x2
Pearson- check
Hart- Check
Lady Byng- x3

And if that doesn't work. He'll just demand a trade to the MLB hall of fame..

I agree with O.Ps list for the most part. Tim Thomas kinda confuses me however.

 

[Sky04]

St.louis is a lock, there's no case against him.

Points, longevity, peak, team achievements, individual achievements.

 

[eyetest is useless]

Bergeron is possibly the greatest defensive forward of all time, which is certainly an USP.

It Might take 50 years but I do think that eventually analytics will be taken into consideration in HOF debates, and when that happens Bergeron will be in.

If you're in favour of Bob Gainey being in, there's no reason to keep Bergeron out.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Mike Peca is comparable to Bergeron, and he's not even in any kind of conversation for the HHOF.

I highly doubt Bergeron will ever get in if Peca can't get in.

So by that logic, Perry should be a lock (barring a Heatley-esque regression)?

Yeah, he seems like a strange consideration.. :/

I highly doubt he was deserving of the Hart that year, as Daniel has more points and was IMHO the better player. Perry just turned it on with a torrid goal scoring streak the last few games of the season to hit 50 goals and win the Rocket.

I suppose the voters didn't want to give the Sedins back to back Hart/Art Ross even though Daniel definitely deserved it.


It'll be strange seeing how history remembers Perry.

 

[Moops]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm putting the over/under at 7.5 complaints that the HHOF is too lenient.

 

[Shaftception]

Maybe add Jamie benn to the on the right path list.

It's funny what this year's historically low scoring race did to the perception of the winner. Especially if the down turn in scoring continues, people are going to have to come to grips with the new bar set for HoF induction. With Benn's Art Ross win, if he even has an average rest of his career he's a lock for the HoF, it's not even a question of on the right path, he could coast there in relative terms as long as his career isn't cut short relatively quickly for whatever reason.

Every single art ross winner in history who is eligible for the HoF is inducted. Jagr very obviously will be in as soon as he retires (if he ever does), same for St. Louis, Thornton, and Iginla. It's why even a player like Malkin with his numerous seasons plagued with injury compared to the other members of the "big 3" in Ovechkin's relative iron man streak or even Crosby's notable injury history could still retire tomorrow and make it in with his two Art Ross. One is almost a guarantee, two is a lock. All three of Ovechkin, Crosby and Malkin are HoF players today regardless of the rest of their careers, their trophy cases before 30 rival careers of most greats. The Ross is actually more a guarantee than the Hart is based on percentage of winners inducted. This is also why the Sedin twins are both relative locks right now independant of the novelty of being twins with superstar level career peaks, and the same will more than likely be for Benn or any other upcoming winner out of the usual contenders.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

I'm a big fan of Benn but I don't know, if it's too early to peg the Tavares/Giroux of this world on being possible names, it's even worse for the Johansen and Benn's.

 

[1Boliever]

Brodeur, Jagr, OV and Crosby are locked to get in as first ballot. Even if they retire tomorrow.

Malkin needs a little bit more to get in on the first ballot. Maybe 1 or 2 pieces of hardware, or hitting some major milestones.. 1200 points would make him the highest scoring Russian of all time, and I could definitely see him hitting it.


Iginla isn't likely a first ballot, but he will get in eventually. Same with the Sedins, St.Louis, Thornton, and Chara.



Pretty much any consistent player who wins the Hart will get in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hart_Memorial_Trophy#Winners

A Hart Trophy winner needs to have their career completely CRATER to not be a HHOF lock.
- Theodore derailed completely.
- Lindros derailed as well, but might get in anyways
- Fedorov will get in.



Same **could** be said about Art Ross winners, but the trophy was only won by 3 players for 20+ years.

That is incorrect Iggy is a 1st ballot lock.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Locks: Crosby, Ovechkin, Thornton, Jagr, Iginla, St. Louis.

I believe in having a very small HOF.

Hmm where's Geno? He's already accomplished more than St. Louis and Thornton have.

 

[SuddenDeathOvertime]

Any list that doesn't have Iginla or Thornton as locks is wrong.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Mike Peca is comparable to Bergeron, and he's not even in any kind of conversation for the HHOF.

I highly doubt Bergeron will ever get in if Peca can't get in.




Yeah, he seems like a strange consideration.. :/

I highly doubt he was deserving of the Hart that year, as Daniel has more points and was IMHO the better player. Perry just turned it on with a torrid goal scoring streak the last few games of the season to hit 50 goals and win the Rocket.

I suppose the voters didn't want to give the Sedins back to back Hart/Art Ross even though Daniel definitely deserved it.


It'll be strange seeing how history remembers Perry.

You make some good points on the Perry situation but his career thus far is nothing to sneeze at (especially if you look at the championships and trophies he's won). As for Bergeron, I only saw a Peca past his prime (started following closely in 2005) but Bergeron definitely put up better offensive numbers than the latter and I don't think many people would take the Peca over Bergy.

 

[ThorntonFightClub*]

International resume, defensive game and a pretty good offensive game to boot. I'll admit that my bias might have shown and Bergeron should be more in the debatable category but I gotta make things interesting to generation conversation


It's an intriguing case but I don't know. He has the Cups and a relatively solid but quiet career a la Whitney. My grip is that he was never seen as a top guy during his career. Star forward but not part of the elite group like Jumbo Joe or Iginla. Pretty comparable to Tanguay too.


If Karlsson had career ending injury (not wishing it or anything), I think he'd enter the HHOF at one point because of his extraordinary production for a defenseman especially in this era. He has game breaking talent and certainly exploits it. Weber is kind of in the same shoes as Brad Park, he's in the shadow of some defenseman who just eclipse him by having one amazing season but he's probably been the most consistent defenseman since Lidstrom retired. He's arguably in the top three and the defenseman I'd pick if I were to start a team from scratch but he doesn't have a Norris so far. Plus this year, Josi outshone him. And yeah I agree with the rest that it's way to early but that's why I put them there because they have a decent shot at it.

Not buying your Karlsson argument. Mike Green put up more goals and points than him in the same era.

Post Lidstrom; Weber, Chara and Keith have been better and more consistent.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Not buying your Karlsson argument. Mike Green put up more goals and points than him in the same era.

Post Lidstrom; Weber, Chara and Keith have been better and more consistent.

Scoring was still a tad higher back then and the Capitals were stacked with Ovy-Backstrom-Semin on their team, Ottawa doesn't even come close to competing with that group. If you adjust their point totals, they're pretty much even but then you have to take thier teams in consideration. Also, FWIW, I have Chara and Keith as locks too.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Elias has no individual awards, was never among the best players in the league, never had a 100 points season, never had a 50 goals season...

He's been a very good player. To me that's all there is to it. People have different ideas of what should consist of an hall of famer, but I guess my vision of it is far more restrictive than yours.

That's certainly arguable. He was a first team All-Star (probably would have had two if people knew what position he played, in 2004 he was 3rd in LW voting and 5th in C voting) and got Hart votes three times between 99-00 and 03-04.

His 81 points in 2004, with the team the Devils had, in the heart of the Dead Puck Era is crazy impressive. He may not have hit 100 points, but he hit 96 points which is the Devils all-time scoring record, also in the middle of the DPE.

When you consider how poor the team has been offensively the last +20 years outside of 99-01, it becomes pretty clear he'd have much more appealing raw point totals on most any other team in the league.

 

[GreatGonzo]

It's funny what this year's historically low scoring race did to the perception of the winner. Especially if the down turn in scoring continues, people are going to have to come to grips with the new bar set for HoF induction. With Benn's Art Ross win, if he even has an average rest of his career he's a lock for the HoF, it's not even a question of on the right path, he could coast there in relative terms as long as his career isn't cut short relatively quickly for whatever reason.

Every single art ross winner in history who is eligible for the HoF is inducted. Jagr very obviously will be in as soon as he retires (if he ever does), same for St. Louis, Thornton, and Iginla. It's why even a player like Malkin with his numerous seasons plagued with injury compared to the other members of the "big 3" in Ovechkin's relative iron man streak or even Crosby's notable injury history could still retire tomorrow and make it in with his two Art Ross. One is almost a guarantee, two is a lock. All three of Ovechkin, Crosby and Malkin are HoF players today regardless of the rest of their careers, their trophy cases before 30 rival careers of most greats. The Ross is actually more a guarantee than the Hart is based on percentage of winners inducted. This is also why the Sedin twins are both relative locks right now independant of the novelty of being twins with superstar level career peaks, and the same will more than likely be for Benn or any other upcoming winner out of the usual contenders.

You just compared Jamie Benn who has 1 art Ross to 3 guys who have basically won every trophy there is to win, and multiple of them. That doesn't work.

He is definitely not a shoe in because of one great season, a season I might add where scoring was low and he barely beat out the next 5 behind him in the end. Not EVERY player who wins the art is guaranteed a spot in the hall, especially since from 1981-2001, only 3 players won it...two of which are. Considered by many the best to ever player. I feel hall of fame inductees not only should have dominated, but we're also impact players who contributed something special. Sure some players that are in aren't really HOF worthy, but that doesn't mean we should let anyone and everyone in who is the least bit good.

I hate seeing people on here hype up a player for the hall simply because they won a cup or had 1 good year. Most players people are listing or think can get in have no business even being considered. MSL has a cup, 2 Art Ross', hart, 1000 points, and multiple elite seasons. Iginla has a Art Ross, 500+ goals, and has been one of the best player forwards to play the game. Thornton has an Art Ross, Hart, could crack the top 30 in all time points, and has been one of the best playmakers of this generation. Ovi, Crosby, and Malkin are obvious conidates for the hall. And then there's Jamie Benn, who isn't even close to these players.

Why don't we wait and see how his career unwinds in 10 years or so before we lock him in the hall, shall we? Because what your implying is that the bar is set so low that ANY player who wins the art is a lock no matter how bad the rest of their career gets. That's ridiculous.

 

[Oneiro]

Elias and Hossa are guys who are viewed as borderline when they should be locks.

You are talking about two of the safest yet most consistently productive players of their generation. And two very clever and entertaining players as well. Not to mention that they have been greater impact post-season players than many of the players already in the Hall.

 

[Callista Rhian]

IMO

Locks

• Crosby
• Ovechkin
• Malkin
• Thornton
• Brodeur
• Iginla
• Jagr
• Hossa(god)
• Datsyuk
• St. Louis
• Chara
• Bergeron (I will fight anyone who says these two aren't HHoFers, and I'm a Pens fan from Vancouver )

I feel that Selanne is a lock, too, but he's not a currently active player.

On their way there, barring catastrophe

• Toews
• Price
• Luongo
• Backstrom
• Gonchar
• Sedins
• Lundqvist
• Keith
• Zetterberg
• Quick
• Doughty

Good chance/Too early to tell

• Tavares
• Kane
• Getzlaf
• Perry
• Stamkos
• Karlsson
• Giroux
• Benn
• Seguin

As for people complaining that my lists are too long - they encompasses players who have been playing since before I was born ('92) to players who probably won't retire until the mid to late 2020s.

 

[Moops]

Elias has no individual awards, was never among the best players in the league, never had a 100 points season, never had a 50 goals season...

He's been a very good player. To me that's all there is to it. People have different ideas of what should consist of an hall of famer, but I guess my vision of it is far more restrictive than yours.

It's not about restrictiveness. It's that your criteria don't make sense. You will let in some pretty soft inductees using those criteria--way softer than Elias.

It is factually incorrect to suggest he has no individual awards--he has a first team all-star.
A single instance of a huge, round number is a fairly useless criterion. You're way better off just using career totals--more sample size, plus less noise due to random sequencing. 436 adjusted goals created over 1224 games absolutely puts him into the discussion for being one of the best players in the world. I don't care if he happened to cluster a bunch of them into one 82 game stretch or not. Do you really think that 100 points+50+60 is that much better than 70+70+70? Or 95+55+60?

 

[Syckle78]

IMO

Locks

• Crosby
• Ovechkin
• Malkin
• Thornton
• Brodeur
• Iginla
• Jagr
• Hossa(god)
• Datsyuk
• St. Louis
• Chara
• Bergeron (I will fight anyone who says these two aren't HHoFers, and I'm a Pens fan from Vancouver )

I feel that Selanne is a lock, too, but he's not a currently active player.

On their way there, barring catastrophe

• Toews
• Price
• Luongo
• Backstrom
• Gonchar
• Sedins
• Lundqvist
• Keith
• Zetterberg
• Quick
• Doughty

Good chance/Too early to tell

• Tavares
• Kane
• Getzlaf
• Perry
• Stamkos
• Karlsson
• Giroux
• Benn
• Seguin

As for people complaining that my lists are too long - they encompasses players who have been playing since before I was born ('92) to players who probably won't retire until the mid to late 2020s.

Most of the players on your second list are better than Bergeron. What's Bergerons case again? He's absolutely not been a better player than Zetterberg, Keith, Hank, and no clue how or what separates him and toews with Bergeron being ahead.


Not just to you but everyone. How the hell is Bergeron a lock for the hall? And someone said he might be the best defensive forward of all time. He's not even the best defensive forward of the last ten years and it's been debatable if he was the best in any given year. Oy vey...

 

[Unspecified]

Bergeron is possibly the greatest defensive forward of all time, which is certainly an USP.

It Might take 50 years but I do think that eventually analytics will be taken into consideration in HOF debates, and when that happens Bergeron will be in.

If you're in favour of Bob Gainey being in, there's no reason to keep Bergeron out.

Lets ease up on those rains shall we.

No particular order:
Datysuk
Gainey
Lehtinen
Possibly Clarke (Even though he never won the award)
Carbonneau