OT: Covid-19 (Part 23) Takin' it to the street

[cajmonkey]

We are where we are because of the disgusting actions of the police officers, not because of Floyd's past. Once Floyd was restrained, his past became irrelevant. At that point, the show was over and all the officers needed to do was to act professionally. Instead, they just sat there on a subdued man's neck for 400 seconds and allowed him to die, which created this entire shitshow. They had 400 seconds to act professionally, or even humanely, and refused. Nobody's past has anything to do with those crucial minutes when years of training failed four police officers. Or maybe they failed their training. That's where the focus needs to be, not on Floyd, who was just another unspectacular suspect who got in the way.

I disagree that his past actions were irrelevant, violent priors play a role in how cops treat suspects. I would also say that his current actions were also relevant. Both are relevant to how the situation played out, not whether the cop is guilty of murder. We know he's guilty.

I agree that the police ignored his pleas, and it ended in a tragedy. I agree that police training needs to be inspected.

 

[cajmonkey]

Rand Paul introduces Justice for Breonna Taylor Act to ban "no-knock" warrants

This is a good thing, what do you think about it ? It can save a couple of lives per year.

Great idea.

Although drug dealers will now have more time to grab weapons, flush drugs, or even escape.

 

[Lshap]

You're talking as if the problem is unknown. It's clear as day, police reform is a must, with an emphasis on reinventing the training program and a much more scrupulous hiring process.

There will always be people acting drunk, people challenging cops, some even physically confront them, that's never going away so it's a bit of pointless exercise to see why Floyd acted this way. Regardless of it, there will be another Floyd just like he was another Garner, etc, until cops are better trained.

I see it exactly the same way. Like a hockey team, it comes down to drafting & development. Figure out the right qualities to look for when hiring police cadets and train them properly. There are plenty of great precincts with great cops -- what are those guys doing right? Do what they're doing. Like a sports team, a police force follows the tone and standards of its leaders.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Great idea.

Although drug dealers will now have more time to grab weapons, flush drugs, or even escape.

Yeah you are right, it's really tricky, you can find bad sides to everything.

 

[Per Sjoblom]

A couple of lives per month more likely.

 

[cajmonkey]

I see it exactly the same way. Like a hockey team, it comes down to drafting & development. Figure out the right qualities to look for when hiring police cadets and train them properly. There are plenty of great precincts with great cops -- what are those guys doing right? Do what they're doing. Like a sports team, a police force follows the tone and standards of its leaders.

Exactly. Create the best cops.

And since we'll know they're great, suspects won't need to fear being murdered on the way to the station. Then suspects will have no excuse to resist, which will lead to less escalations, which will lead to less tragedies.

So more funding makes sense, not less.

 

[Per Sjoblom]

I see it exactly the same way. Like a hockey team, it comes down to drafting & development. Figure out the right qualities to look for when hiring police cadets and train them properly. There are plenty of great precincts with great cops -- what are those guys doing right? Do what they're doing. Like a sports team, a police force follows the tone and standards of its leaders.

Lol! Canadians eh. People laughed at work when I emailed the picture at the beginning of the keep the distance recommendation/rules at 2 meters or about the length of a hockey stick.

 

[Lshap]

I disagree that his past actions were irrelevant, violent priors play a role in how cops treat suspects. I would also say that his current actions were also relevant. Both are relevant to how the situation played out, not whether the cop is guilty of murder. We know he's guilty.

I agree that the police ignored his pleas, and it ended in a tragedy. I agree that police training needs to be inspected.

How does Floyd's past make a difference once he's lying there helpless? Nobody's protesting his right to have counterfeit money or his right to resist arrest, and nobody's defending any of the crap he did in his life leading up to that day. None of this is about how he lived his life, the issue is those 400 seconds when cops ended his life. It doesn't matter who George Floyd was, because police officers don't get to pick and choose who they treat professionally and who they allow to die. This protest is about their failure of police professionalism, not a suspect's past.

 

[Lshap]

Exactly. Create the best cops.

And since we'll know they're great, suspects won't need to fear being murdered on the way to the station. Then suspects will have no excuse to resist, which will lead to less escalations, which will lead to less tragedies.

So more funding makes sense, not less.

Re-funding makes more sense to me than de-funding. Put the money into better training, more outreach programs, etc. Defunding sounds like punishment for its own sake, which might be emotionally satisfying but accomplishes nothing.

 

[Lshap]

Lol! Canadians eh. People laughed at work when I emailed the picture at the beginning of the keep the distance recommendation/rules at 2 meters or about the length a hockey stick.

In Canada, everything can be boiled down to a hockey metaphor.

 

[WeThreeKings]

No.

But by all means, post any information or report concerning it, but only if you're willing to discuss the matter. Don't post it and then get upset if I point out something I notice in the report and wish to discuss it.

Good thing is there's nothing in it.

They said they didnt use force to open the door. They used a battering ram.

They said there was no injuries. They shot her 6? Times

 

[Per Sjoblom]

Re-funding makes more sense to me than de-funding. Put the money into better training, more outreach programs, etc. Defunding sounds like punishment for its own sake, which might be emotionally satisfying but accomplishes nothing.

That is probably what the city councils mean. I find it ridiculous when I see US cops driving around dressed in military gear in these things.

 

[Treb]

It's apparently a fake, but good points are made.

Regardless of who talk the points, if they are valid, who cares ? I posted things from reddit, I can't know the meaning of every username. It seems hard to understand for you.

You are still bitter, because I disagree with you ? If you want to believe that I'm a white supremacist, but I'm not white. At least has decency to tag me... Don't insinuate something, say it. You have no balls, even on an anonymous board...

You are the kind of person who thinks that every guy from the right is a nazi... I can't help you.

Supremacist don't have to be of the race they are promoting. I remember a brown haired green eyed small guy promoting tall blond blue eyed guys.

Personal anecdote time. I dated an half Chinese/QC girl. Her Chinese mother would have categorically rejected a Chinese (apparently they are lazy?) or Black boyfriend. I was white and had a degree so she showered me with compliments when I was there and actually gifted 200$ twice to her daughter for our anniversaries to treat us even though she was calling me fat to her daughter when I was not there. The only reason I was acceptable to her eyes was the color of my skin (white) and my degree and she was NOT white herself.

Not saying you are a white supremacist, but saying "I'm not white" is not a defence.

Reading the comments of the text you posted clearly shows what kind of people are on this subreddit and they are not of the "every guy on the right" variety. They are the kind of guys that read Breitbart. It's even funnier when the guy posting it says he got it from r/conspiracy.

The text itself uses the same kind of distortions used by Shapiro in the video you posted earlier to twist the blame away. It also uses unconfirmed info such as the fact that the lady in Floyd 2007 arrest was pregnant.

Here is a good summary of Floyd previous offences and facts during the arrest by Snopes, although you might not consider it valid: EXCLUSIVE: Investigating George Floyd’s Criminal Record

 

[cajmonkey]

How does Floyd's past make a difference once he's lying there helpless? Nobody's protesting his right to have counterfeit money or his right to resist arrest, and nobody's defending any of the crap he did in his life leading up to that day. None of this is about how he lived his life, the issue is those 400 seconds when cops ended his life. It doesn't matter who George Floyd was, because police officers don't get to pick and choose who they treat professionally and who they allow to die. This protest is about their failure of police professionalism, not a suspect's past.

I agree, that is what the protests are about.

I agree none of it makes a difference once he's lying their helpless, although depending on what information comes out, Chauvin's relationship with Floyd at the club might provide insight as to why he did what he did and could show premeditation, and Chauvin will deserve a harsher sentence.


Separately, I'm also concerned about police interactions with people in general. And all that goes along with it, including things likes prior records and resisting arrest. There is nothing grotesque about me thinking about, or bringing up those topics, nor with discussing those matters and how they relate to this specific case either, as was suggested by WeThreeKings.

 

[WeThreeKings]

That is probably what the city councils mean. I find it ridiculous when I see US cops driving around dressed in military gear in these things.

NYPD had funds of 6 billion dollars last year. Far far superior than investments in education and poor communities.

That's insane.

 

[cajmonkey]

Good thing is there's nothing in it.

They said they didnt use force to open the door. They used a battering ram.

They said there was no injuries. They shot her 6? Times

Ya, any time the cops bust down the door to the wrong house, usually with a no knock warrant, it's always a terrible thing. Death or no death.

Cops lying about what took place is also terrible.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Shopping malls will reopen in Montreal on June 19th.

 

[waffledave]

"He does not agree with me, he must be a racist and a white supremacist." Yeah, I'm losing my time... Should have known.

You literally posted multiple white supremacist arguments and sources.

If you don't like it get some new f***ing material.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

"He does not agree with me, he must be a racist and a white supremacist." Yeah, I'm losing my time... Should have known.

You did this to yourself. If you don't know how to vet sources, you shouldn't be engaged with seriously. That's without considering the actual substance of your posts, which was incredibly lacking.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I disagree that his past actions were irrelevant, violent priors play a role in how cops treat suspects. I would also say that his current actions were also relevant. Both are relevant to how the situation played out, not whether the cop is guilty of murder. We know he's guilty.

I agree that the police ignored his pleas, and it ended in a tragedy. I agree that police training needs to be inspected.

Uh...how the f*** could the cops have known Floyd's past before they choked him to death?

 

[cajmonkey]

Uh...how the f*** could the cops have known Floyd's past before they choked him to death?

I imagine that during the time they were talking to the clerk and Floyd, they got his name or id and checked to see if he had a record.

 

[Treb]

I imagine that during the time they were talking to the clerk and Floyd, they got his name or id and checked to see if he had a record.

That is not clear from the link I posted earlier. Also, he was unresponsive for around 3 minutes. All his previous troubles were in Texas and he was in Minnesota. How do you justify that apart from straight murderous intent?

 

[Per Sjoblom]

Supremacist don't have to be of the race they are promoting. I remember a brown haired green eyed small guy promoting tall blond blue eyed guys.

Personal anecdote time. I dated an half Chinese/QC girl. Her Chinese mother would have categorically rejected a Chinese (apparently they are lazy?) or Black boyfriend. I was white and had a degree so she showered me with compliments when I was there and actually gifted 200$ twice to her daughter for our anniversaries to treat us even though she was calling me fat to her daughter when I was not there. The only reason I was acceptable to her eyes was the color of my skin (white) and my degree and she was NOT white herself.

Not saying you are a white supremacist, but saying "I'm not white" is not a defence.

Reading the comments of the text you posted clearly shows what kind of people are on this subreddit and they are not of the "every guy on the right" variety. They are the kind of guys that read Breitbart. It's even funnier when the guy posting it says he got it from r/conspiracy.

The text itself uses the same kind of distortions used by Shapiro in the video you posted earlier to twist the blame away. It also uses unconfirmed info such as the fact that the lady in Floyd 2007 arrest was pregnant.

Here is a good summary of Floyd previous offences and facts during the arrest by Snopes, although you might not consider it valid: EXCLUSIVE: Investigating George Floyd’s Criminal Record

I had an Asian mother in law. She was really racist towards other Asians, African Americans and Hispanic people. She was embarrassing at times, one time we were on a trip to NJ and had her with us and the hotel included breakfast and I noticed she got a lot of breakfast and then she rolled food into napkins and stole from the hotel. I told her in the car that is she did that again she would would have to walk back to Virginia. After we split she went after me and insinuated to my ex sister in law that I molested my son because he used to sleep in my bed when he had nightmares. She can go and **%^&|\&$!!! herself!

Btw, is your Grandma OK now?

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I imagine that during the time they were talking to the clerk and Floyd, they got his name or id and checked to see if he had a record.

'I imagine'

We're talking about a man's life here. Besides, all four officers were actively engaging with Floyd while Thao watched. I sincerely doubt that they were able to pull up any past offenses during the interaction and even if they did, their handling of his person was extreme by any realistic standard. He was submissive. He wasn't a threat. He was pleading for help. He was murded in response to his pleas. I'm sick of that crap and generalizations are worthy here - anyone who doesn't see this is part of the problem and need to think long and hard about one, their critical thinking skills and second, their moral sense.

 

[cajmonkey]

That is not clear from the link I posted earlier. Also, he was unresponsive for around 3 minutes. All his previous troubles were in Texas and he was in Minnesota. How do you justify that apart from straight murderous intent?

First off, justify what? As stated approximately one dozen times already, I am not justifying the cop's actions. If you missed the pages of posts where I clearly state my stance and reasoning, it might be worth reading them so we don't start it all over.

As for getting info or knowing Floyd's record, I don't know whether or not they had access to his criminal background. I don't know how close Chauvin and Floyd were at the club, or if he had heard about Floyd's past.

I'm saying priors are relevant in any case as police will most likely treat a suspect differently if they do know of them. Just because someone on here says I shouldn't even bring up priors, doesn't mean they aren't relevant in what I'm discussing.

Don't worry, I understand that it's not relevant to most of you, as you are only concerned about the murder itself.

Like I said, I made what, how, and why I'm discussing this clear pages ago.