OT: Covid-19 (Part 23) Takin' it to the street

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HockeyAddict

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I want to see changes, because of police brutality. I disagree with the fact that black people are killed by police officers, because they are black.

Change that would help ?

Better selection of cops: In order to be a cop, you need to be strong enough and in good shape.
Regular psychological tests, to help cops with mental illness problems and prevent a dramatic ending.
More/better formations, some cops appear not to know how to deal with people in crucial situations.
More/better training for real-time situations that happens often and can end tragically.

You can improve many things, it's far from perfect.

In your potential solutions, you didn't mention anything about dealing with prejudice/racism... its not an issue that needs to be addressed?
 

CristianoRonaldo

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In you potential solutions, you didn't mention anything about dealing with prejudice/racism... its not an issue that needs to be addressed?

Normally psycholgical test are designed for this too...

I did not mention specifically many things (Sexism, racism, fat phobia, homophobia, transphobia, antisemitism...)

Edit: Racism exist, but it's not systemic, it's at an individual level.
 
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HockeyAddict

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Normally psycholgical test are designed for this too...

I did not mention specifically many things (Sexism, racism, fat phobia, homophobia, transphobia, antisemitism...)
That's a non-answer... In your potential solutions, you didn't mention anything about dealing with prejudice/racism... its not an issue that needs to be addressed?
 
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CristianoRonaldo

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You put a lot more faith in psychometric tests than I do... the majority of police unions need to be disbanded/reformed.

That's a non-answer... In your potential solutions, you didn't mention anything about dealing with prejudice/racism... its not an issue that needs to be addressed?

:popcorn:

Tell your solutions, I'll probably agree with you.
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
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Normally psycholgical test are designed for this too...

I did not mention specifically many things (Sexism, racism, fat phobia, homophobia, transphobia, antisemitism...)

Edit: Racism exist, but it's not systemic, it's at an individual level.

If there's a sufficiently high level of racism by individuals in a group, racism will become systemic in that group.

A large contributor to this outcome is denial or blindness within the rest of the group and tacit support higher up.

These are the components of the rise of every racist and otherwise hateful enterprise.
 

scrubadam

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Apr 10, 2016
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Uh...how the f*** could the cops have known Floyd's past before they choked him to death?

They had his plate number.

Is it possible they ran it before and saw his record in their little police computer?

Or maybe Chauvin had beef with Floyd from the club they worked at together and it was personal?
 

cajmonkey

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Mar 29, 2014
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Some cops just can't help themselves, I don't think these teens would have been targeted, if they were white-
Jaywalking arrest of 2 Black teens in Oklahoma under review

I've been stopped by the cops for hitchhiking illegally on a main road. I explained I was from out of town, gave them my info, answered their questions respectfully. No problem.

One might say it was due to skin colour but I would disagree. They still stopped me.

The only time cops have really been dicks was when I mouthed off instead of respecting them and making their job easier. Again, wasn't my skin colour, it was my attitude.

I will say the jaywalking claim is weaksauce, even though they were in the road. It was rural, not blocking traffic downtown.
 
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CristianoRonaldo

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If there's a sufficiently high level of racism by individuals in a group, racism will become systemic in that group.

A large contributor to this outcome is denial or blindness within the rest of the group and tacit support higher up.

These are the components of the rise of every racist and otherwise hateful enterprise.

Sure, but thankfully, racism is not viewed positively in our society and it should definitely be fought, before it becomes systemic.
 

CristianoRonaldo

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Apr 7, 2014
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I've been stopped by the cops for hitchhiking illegally on a main road. I explained I was from out of town, gave them my info, answered their questions respectfully. No problem.

One might say it was due to skin colour but I would disagree. They still stopped me.

The only time cops have really been dicks was when I mouthed off instead of respecting them and making their job easier. Again, wasn't my skin colour, it was my attitude.

I will say the jaywalking claim is weaksauce, even though they were in the road. It was rural, not blocking traffic downtown.

I'm Arabic and I never had a problem with the police in Montréal. Same for my whole family. Usually, if you answer well and you have the right attitude, they will let you go.

Of course there is racism, but usually they don't stop you because you are black/white/Asian/Arabic... It can happen, but it's not as usual as some want us to believe.
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
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Sure, but thankfully, racism is not viewed positively in our society and it should definitely be fought, before it becomes systemic.

But racism doesn't begin in "society". It's small groups that slowly erode at the humanity of people, who in turn spread the venom slowly but surely.

A significant amount of racism is inherent in people of low education and experience. It thrives among people who have a poor lot in life and look for scapegoats to blame their awful lives on.

And sometimes people are just raised in environments full of hate. It's a very serious issue, even in the best examples of democracy, but when political leaders endorse hate, that energy spreads like a virus. There are plenty of historical examples of this.

There has never been a time in human history, when some kind of profound hatred or genocide towards a particular group was not happening.
 

Per Sjoblom

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Jan 3, 2018
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That's in Canada and "If it refers to an unconscious bias that exists and we definitely have that in the RCMP and we are not immune to it at all," Lucki said.

She appears to not even understand the definition.

What is Systemic Racism? [VIDEOS]

The definition is so wide and judging by it everything is because of systemic racism.


It is probably something like this: When I moved to the US we were living in Northern Virginia in Fairfax County, one of the most affluent counties in the US where the Pentagon and the CIA headquarters are located. Quantico the FBI training facilities are also in Virginia so it is not "Hicksville" in southern Virginia full of rednecks. I was on my way home and I used to stop and rent some movies at the end of the week. It was just 2 stone throws away from our house. The video store was called Hollywood Video. I went into the store, I had purchased something from a nearby RadioShack and I had my backpack on. I started browsing films then a young black guy came into the store, he was nicely dressed and looked like a college guy. Immediately the staff told him to give them the backpack whereas another white guy also had a backpack and nobody told us. So 2 white guys with backpacks, one black guy and they told him to give them the backpack. The other white guy got upset and asked them why they hadn't asked us, they had no answer. When I was hired as a consultant for 2 weeks at Microsoft in 2006 one of the Excel developers we worked with was black and one night we all went out for drinks and he told me that every time he was at a red light and he saw a police car coming up to stop he always lowered the volume in his car just to not provoke anything from the cop.

Then we have Susan Smith in South Carolina, infamous child murderess who drowned he own 2 sons (one was 3 year and the other was 14 months) because she had met a guy that was rich and wasn't interested in kids so she had driven her car into a pond and drowned them. When the cops interviewed her she said that her car had been carjacked by a black man. For about 2 weeks she appealed on TV asking for her children and then the found the car, she had also said that she was the only car stopping at the red light but it was a newer type of traffic signal and she could only get red light if there was a car at the intersection.

Just recently (in May) there was a woman in Florida who drowned her autistic son.

"It was Thursday night when Ripley called police with a dramatic and bizarre tale: A light-blue car forced her car off the road near a West Kendall Home Depot. Two black men were inside. One of men jumped out, she told Miami-Dade police, and demanded drugs.
When she told them she didn’t have any, the man — armed with a knife — took the child, her cell phone and a tablet and drove off
."

They actually found a video of the murder and another video earlier on the same night where she had tried to do it but a good Samaritan had rescued the kid and later she went to another canal.

"And authorities said the murder was well-planned — she actually tried drowning Alejando earlier Thursday night, but was thwarted when a good Samaritan stepped in and rescued the boy from the water.
“An hour later, she brought the boy to a different canal ... this time, there was no one there to save him,” Miami-Dade State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle said at a Saturday morning press conference."
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
19,277
18,222
Calgary
It is probably something like this: When I moved to the US we were living in Northern Virginia in Fairfax County, one of the most affluent counties in the US where the Pentagon and the CIA headquarters are located. Quantico the FBI training facilities are also in Virginia so it is not "Hicksville" in southern Virginia full of rednecks. I was on my way home and I used to stop and rent some movies at the end of the week. It was just 2 stone throws away from our house. The video store was called Hollywood Video. I went into the store, I had purchased something from a nearby RadioShack and I had my backpack on. I started browsing films then a young black guy came into the store, he was nicely dressed and looked like a college guy. Immediately the staff told him to give them the backpack whereas another white guy also had a backpack and nobody told us. So 2 white guys with backpacks, one black guy and they told him to give them the backpack. The other white guy got upset and asked them why they hadn't asked us, they had no answer. When I was hired as a consultant for 2 weeks at Microsoft in 2006 one of the Excel developers we worked with was black and one night we all went out for drinks and he told me that every time he was at a red light and he saw a police car coming up to stop he always lowered the volume in his car just to not provoke anything from the cop.

Then we have Susan Smith in South Carolina, infamous child murderess who drowned he own 2 sons (one was 3 year and the other was 14 months) because she had met a guy that was rich and wasn't interested in kids so she had driven her car into a pond and drowned them. When the cops interviewed her she said that her car had been carjacked by a black man. For about 2 weeks she appealed on TV asking for her children and then the found the car, she had also said that she was the only car stopping at the red light but it was a newer type of traffic signal and she could only get red light if there was a car at the intersection.

Just recently (in May) there was a woman in Florida who drowned her autistic son.

"It was Thursday night when Ripley called police with a dramatic and bizarre tale: A light-blue car forced her car off the road near a West Kendall Home Depot. Two black men were inside. One of men jumped out, she told Miami-Dade police, and demanded drugs.
When she told them she didn’t have any, the man — armed with a knife — took the child, her cell phone and a tablet and drove off
."

They actually found a video of the murder and another video earlier on the same night where she had tried to do it but a good Samaritan had rescued the kid and later she went to another canal.

"And authorities said the murder was well-planned — she actually tried drowning Alejando earlier Thursday night, but was thwarted when a good Samaritan stepped in and rescued the boy from the water.
“An hour later, she brought the boy to a different canal ... this time, there was no one there to save him,” Miami-Dade State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle said at a Saturday morning press conference."

Makes one shudder reading about that shit.
 

CristianoRonaldo

Registered User
Apr 7, 2014
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In your head
It is probably something like this: When I moved to the US we were living in Northern Virginia in Fairfax County, one of the most affluent counties in the US where the Pentagon and the CIA headquarters are located. Quantico the FBI training facilities are also in Virginia so it is not "Hicksville" in southern Virginia full of rednecks. I was on my way home and I used to stop and rent some movies at the end of the week. It was just 2 stone throws away from our house. The video store was called Hollywood Video. I went into the store, I had purchased something from a nearby RadioShack and I had my backpack on. I started browsing films then a young black guy came into the store, he was nicely dressed and looked like a college guy. Immediately the staff told him to give them the backpack whereas another white guy also had a backpack and nobody told us. So 2 white guys with backpacks, one black guy and they told him to give them the backpack. The other white guy got upset and asked them why they hadn't asked us, they had no answer. When I was hired as a consultant for 2 weeks at Microsoft in 2006 one of the Excel developers we worked with was black and one night we all went out for drinks and he told me that every time he was at a red light and he saw a police car coming up to stop he always lowered the volume in his car just to not provoke anything from the cop.

Then we have Susan Smith in South Carolina, infamous child murderess who drowned he own 2 sons (one was 3 year and the other was 14 months) because she had met a guy that was rich and wasn't interested in kids so she had driven her car into a pond and drowned them. When the cops interviewed her she said that her car had been carjacked by a black man. For about 2 weeks she appealed on TV asking for her children and then the found the car, she had also said that she was the only car stopping at the red light but it was a newer type of traffic signal and she could only get red light if there was a car at the intersection.

Just recently (in May) there was a woman in Florida who drowned her autistic son.

"It was Thursday night when Ripley called police with a dramatic and bizarre tale: A light-blue car forced her car off the road near a West Kendall Home Depot. Two black men were inside. One of men jumped out, she told Miami-Dade police, and demanded drugs.
When she told them she didn’t have any, the man — armed with a knife — took the child, her cell phone and a tablet and drove off
."

They actually found a video of the murder and another video earlier on the same night where she had tried to do it but a good Samaritan had rescued the kid and later she went to another canal.

"And authorities said the murder was well-planned — she actually tried drowning Alejando earlier Thursday night, but was thwarted when a good Samaritan stepped in and rescued the boy from the water.
“An hour later, she brought the boy to a different canal ... this time, there was no one there to save him,” Miami-Dade State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle said at a Saturday morning press conference."

I understand, but all these stories are because of racism at an individual level and of course it does exist, I'm not denying that.

Can you call that systemic racism ? I don't know.
 

CristianoRonaldo

Registered User
Apr 7, 2014
19,757
16,173
In your head
But racism doesn't begin in "society". It's small groups that slowly erode at the humanity of people, who in turn spread the venom slowly but surely.

A significant amount of racism is inherent in people of low education and experience. It thrives among people who have a poor lot in life and look for scapegoats to blame their awful lives on.

And sometimes people are just raised in environments full of hate. It's a very serious issue, even in the best examples of democracy, but when political leaders endorse hate, that energy spreads like a virus. There are plenty of historical examples of this.

Yes, like what Hitler did to the jew and other minorities, but he needed years propaganda to turn people on his side. I don't see that happening today, but we never know.

There has never been a time in human history, when some kind of profound hatred or genocide towards a particular group was not happening.

Luckily, our societies are multiculturals, everyone has the same rights, we all grew up together, so we are not afraid of people of other origins. It's not perfect but it's improving from day to day. Especially in Canada, people are very open minded.
 

cajmonkey

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Mar 29, 2014
3,541
1,162
It is probably something like this: When I moved to the US we were living in Northern Virginia in Fairfax County, one of the most affluent counties in the US where the Pentagon and the CIA headquarters are located. Quantico the FBI training facilities are also in Virginia so it is not "Hicksville" in southern Virginia full of rednecks. I was on my way home and I used to stop and rent some movies at the end of the week. It was just 2 stone throws away from our house. The video store was called Hollywood Video. I went into the store, I had purchased something from a nearby RadioShack and I had my backpack on. I started browsing films then a young black guy came into the store, he was nicely dressed and looked like a college guy. Immediately the staff told him to give them the backpack whereas another white guy also had a backpack and nobody told us. So 2 white guys with backpacks, one black guy and they told him to give them the backpack. The other white guy got upset and asked them why they hadn't asked us, they had no answer. When I was hired as a consultant for 2 weeks at Microsoft in 2006 one of the Excel developers we worked with was black and one night we all went out for drinks and he told me that every time he was at a red light and he saw a police car coming up to stop he always lowered the volume in his car just to not provoke anything from the cop.

Then we have Susan Smith in South Carolina, infamous child murderess who drowned he own 2 sons (one was 3 year and the other was 14 months) because she had met a guy that was rich and wasn't interested in kids so she had driven her car into a pond and drowned them. When the cops interviewed her she said that her car had been carjacked by a black man. For about 2 weeks she appealed on TV asking for her children and then the found the car, she had also said that she was the only car stopping at the red light but it was a newer type of traffic signal and she could only get red light if there was a car at the intersection.

Just recently (in May) there was a woman in Florida who drowned her autistic son.

"It was Thursday night when Ripley called police with a dramatic and bizarre tale: A light-blue car forced her car off the road near a West Kendall Home Depot. Two black men were inside. One of men jumped out, she told Miami-Dade police, and demanded drugs.
When she told them she didn’t have any, the man — armed with a knife — took the child, her cell phone and a tablet and drove off
."

They actually found a video of the murder and another video earlier on the same night where she had tried to do it but a good Samaritan had rescued the kid and later she went to another canal.

"And authorities said the murder was well-planned — she actually tried drowning Alejando earlier Thursday night, but was thwarted when a good Samaritan stepped in and rescued the boy from the water.
“An hour later, she brought the boy to a different canal ... this time, there was no one there to save him,” Miami-Dade State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle said at a Saturday morning press conference."

Two stories about murderers that tried to use racism as a way to not be caught.

And one guy at a video store that asked a kid for his backpack.

Those are cases of possible racists, not systemic racism. And for all we know, the video store kept having movies stolen every time that kid stopped by. So that leaves two moms that killed their own kids.

If anything, you just showed that women are terrible people, not systemic racism, lol.

If there was systemic racism in those murder cases, the cops would have probably just found some black patsy to pin the crime on and call it a day instead of investigating further and catching those evil women.
 
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peate

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Feb 16, 2007
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Fascinating subject. This experiment was done. Take 1000 people both black and white and admittedly non racist. Put them in a large room and within a few hours, you'll have two separate groups. Racist? or just a preference for being with similar people?

Difficult to explain, is it a deep seated mistrust or simply human nature? Might explain things like Chinatown and Little Italy?
 

Non Player Canadiens

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Jan 25, 2012
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There's some real f***ing mental gymnastics going on to say "Oh well George Floyd had a record, so he wasn't an angel"

When a police officer knelt on his neck for almost 9 minutes. For a warrant on a suspected 'falsified cheque'. While his peers stood there doing nothing.

He did not resist. He called him Sir. He called for his dead mother.

They had the ability, the man power, the tools, to handcuff him and detain him in a police car. None of that occurred. He was murdered. Slowly. Cruelly. While the men who represent the corrupt system, heard the same cries, saw the same scene, and stood and did nothing.

If you see it. If you read it, If you know about it and your justification is "well, he was arrested for X previously". You need to do some serious self reflection as to why you are justifying a murder. Not a brief moment of anxiety and the discharge of a gun. A slow, calculated, uncaring murder of someone by robbing them of breath for almost 9 minutes.

When the mass shooting happened in Nova Scotia.. no one looked into the victims to see whether or not they were not perfect citizens to say "well, they were murdered, but they weren't that great of people.." it was a murder. It was despicable and unjust. This was despicable and unjust.

Any form of "George Floyd was a criminal.." is at best, missing the point entirely. But it is the manifestation of something deeper, something grotesque and something you need to challenge yourself on if you find yourself delving deep into that for any type of justification.
nice post dude, ty.
 

THE HOFF

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Sep 26, 2007
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I understand, but all these stories are because of racism at an individual level and of course it does exist, I'm not denying that.

Can you call that systemic racism ? I don't know.

so racism is done on an individual level, then what about the 3 other cops on the scene doing nothing? isn't it a clue for you? that professionals from the same precinct acted as ''one unit'' . Would they do this to a white woman ? shouldn't we all be treated equal under the law? Whoever is trying to split hairs instead of making a legitimate point are making me sick to my gut.

I will make a bold statement -like the ones you and your buddy keep on making- and say you guys haven't traveled. at all.
 
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THE HOFF

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Sep 26, 2007
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Two stories about murderers that tried to use racism as a way to not be caught.

And one guy at a video store that asked a kid for his backpack.

Those are cases of possible racists, not systemic racism. And for all we know, the video store kept having movies stolen every time that kid stopped by. So that leaves two moms that killed their own kids.

If anything, you just showed that women are terrible people, not systemic racism, lol.

If there was systemic racism in those murder cases, the cops would have probably just found some black patsy to pin the crime on and call it a day instead of investigating further and catching those evil women.

tell me the places you visited. what's your life experience ? your perspective ? background? Are you a real estate mogul, or just upset in your mom's basement ?
 

Forum93

Registered User
Feb 16, 2015
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I've been stopped by the cops for hitchhiking illegally on a main road. I explained I was from out of town, gave them my info, answered their questions respectfully. No problem.

One might say it was due to skin colour but I would disagree. They still stopped me.

The only time cops have really been dicks was when I mouthed off instead of respecting them and making their job easier. Again, wasn't my skin colour, it was my attitude.

I will say the jaywalking claim is weaksauce, even though they were in the road. It was rural, not blocking traffic downtown.

Yea I would say illegally hitchhiking would get the cop's attention no matter what skin color. The fact they pursued these teens for such a trivial matter, I tend to believe the teen's skin color triggered them into action in the first place. It's not a far fetched assertion, targeting due to skin color has happened countless times.
 
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