OT: Covid-19 (Part 23) Takin' it to the street

[Lshap]

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[peate]

I'll be glad when it's weeks between new Covid threads instead of days.

 

[Lshap]

From what I can see, the guy dropped his knife and walked out, maybe he got arrested once he got outside. The fact that he's robbing a store while out for a walk with his pet chihuahua suggests mental illness. So actually yeah, no harm was done, no shots were fired, the situation was de-escalated, I call that a success.

It's absurd to me that that the default policing response to someone drawing a knife has become "shoot them until they're dead". De-escalate, FFS. That's what you're supposed to learn in your training.

"Default police response"? What are you talking about, man? Given the amount of criminal incidents happening every hour of every day in every city, we're looking at more than 99% of them ending successfully. If we start vilifying the police as an institution we are truly f***ed. What this whole thing SHOULD be about is accountability for the bad apples and the bad decisions that result in tragedies. Want change? That starts with mutual respect on both sides, like we saw in the US with some cops taking off their gear and walking with protesters. We need more listening and less posturing. That means cops acknowledging the problem within their ranks, and it also means protesters acknowledging the problem of lowlifes among them who are there to provoke a response.

Shut down the assholes drunk on badges and guns, and shut down the lowlifes drunk on mob entitlement. Let the grownups talk and maybe we'll get somewhere.

 

[Lshap]

I'll be glad when it's weeks between new Covid threads instead of days.

Amen, brother. It's been so long since we've had hockey that I've forgotten who I agree with around here.

 

[ArtPeur]

Amen, brother. It's been so long since we've had hockey that I've forgotten who I agree with around here.

What's hockey?

 

[Frozenice]

The whole 'defund the police' thing baffles me. I can't see this ending well for the people proposing it.

 

[Natey]

Ford extends bans on social gatherings in Ontario to no more than 5 until at least June 19. I guess that didn't apply to Trudeau.

 

[Lshap]

What's hockey?

Well... they've got uniforms and weapons, there's shooting and plenty of brutality, there's even a screaming mob. So I guess it's some kind of protest.

Or else... maybe the protest is actually a hockey game. Hmmm.....

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

The whole 'defund the police' thing baffles me. I can't see this ending well for the people proposing it.

Maybe they need that wake-up call, because they are clearly living in another world. Go to Chicago and tell to the citizens that we need to defund the police...

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

"Default police response"? What are you talking about, man?

In the US, it has sadly become common practice for cops to gun down suspects at the slightest hint of a weapon, leading to a lot of tragic false positives.

Here is one of the more famous examples, sadly there have been literally hundreds more like that over years, and surprise, they happen disproportionately to minorities of color. So what's what I'm talking about. It's bull**** and it's got to stop.

Shooting of Amadou Diallo - Wikipedia

Given the amount of criminal incidents happening every hour of every day in every city, we're looking at more than 99% of them ending successfully. [...]That means cops acknowledging the problem within their ranks, and it also means protesters acknowledging the problem of lowlifes among them who are there to provoke a response.

I guess I disagree with the false equivalence of bad behavior on behalf of a random looter and a trained police officer. As I've said previously in the thread, police officers should be held to a higher standard. 1% poor outcomes for them is still pretty ****ty for what's supposed to be a disciplined, well-trained and trustworthy police force. They're an organization that wields legitimate authority handed down from the government. If you can't handle being held to that high standard, then maybe being a cop is not the right job for you.

I take "bad apples" on the protestor side as disappointing but ultimately something no organization is accountable for. It's a random element of how a minority of citizens express themselves in a ****ty situation like this one. you're probably gonna hate that answer but eh we'll have to disagree

btw that's to say nothing about extremely suspicious recorded incidents such as these, where it seems likely that cops and/or alt-right provocateurs are deliberately engaging in that behavior to discredit the protests

 

[Adam Michaels]

Awwwww.... so cute.

 

[Gravity]

The whole defund the police now is divisive emotional response in the other direction. We seem to continue to propagate a black/white mentality where this body is good/bad whether it be for superiority or revenge. As such we continue to run around in circles with primitive generalizations about large masses. We seem to fail to accept that the answer is gray and that in any situation the only guilty party is the guilty party, not whichever ethnic group or employment they belong to. Just how feminism is no longer about equal rights rather than a pro-women movement that is just reversing sexism, or how "equal" opportunity is focused on doing the reverse of the sins of those forefathers who employed oppression. Equality lies in unity, not attempting to exact revenge or undo wrongs of centuries ago.

Nonetheless, I can understand why there would be such an outrage as an innocent life lost is unacceptable under any circumstances. Especially when this is beginning to emerge as a repeated trend. Racism and bigotry is below primitive, it's just illogical and stupid. When will we as a collective species figure that out?

 

[ArtPeur]

Well... they've got uniforms and weapons, there's shooting and plenty of brutality, there's even a screaming mob. So I guess it's some kind of protest.

Or else... maybe the protest is actually a hockey game. Hmmm.....

There is some kind of force trying to restrain them. Then they send renegades in the jail for some minutes. That police force sometimes get punched too. Criminals then get harshly punished (with reason?)

 

[Per Sjoblom]

In the US, it has sadly become common practice for cops to gun down suspects at the slightest hint of a weapon, leading to a lot of tragic false positives.

Here is one of the more famous examples, sadly there have been literally hundreds more like that over years, and surprise, they happen disproportionately to minorities of color. So what's what I'm talking about. It's bull**** and it's got to stop.

Shooting of Amadou Diallo - Wikipedia

I guess I disagree with the false equivalence of bad behavior on behalf of a random looter and a trained police officer. As I've said previously in the thread, police officers should be held to a higher standard. 1% poor outcomes for them is still pretty ****ty for what's supposed to be a disciplined, well-trained and trustworthy police force. They're an organization that wields legitimate authority handed down from the government. If you can't handle being held to that high standard, then maybe being a cop is not the right job for you.

I take "bad apples" on the protestor side as disappointing but ultimately something no organization is accountable for. It's a random element of how a minority of citizens express themselves in a ****ty situation like this one. you're probably gonna hate that answer but eh we'll have to disagree

btw that's to say nothing about extremely suspicious recorded incidents such as these, where it seems likely that cops and/or alt-right provocateurs are deliberately engaging in that behavior to discredit the protests

Another thing that not many people seem to know is that being police in the US is not the most dangerous:

Here are the 25 most dangerous jobs based on the average of the last 10 years, being a police is the 18th most dangerous job in the US. And within these numbers for cops, 30% of the deaths were for heart related deaths. Whereas fishermen and loggers as an example the numbers are all accident related. I am sure the Lobsters Boys (you know who you are) from the Maritimes can verify that fishing is a dangerous job. If you live in an area where the main work is fishing it is probably hard to find someone who's not been affected by the death of a fisherman.

Fishers and related fishing workers
Logging workers
Aircraft pilots and flight engineers
Roofers
Refuse and recyclable material collectors
Structural iron and steel workers
Driver/sales workers and truck drivers
Farmers, ranchers and other agricultural managers
First-line supervisors of landscaping, lawn service and groundskeeping workers
Electrical power-line installers and repairers
Miscellaneous agricultural workers
First-line supervisors of construction trades and extraction workers
Helpers, construction trades
Maintenance and repair workers, general
Grounds maintenance workers
Construction laborers
First-line supervisors of mechanics, installers and repairers
Police and sheriff’s patrol officers
Operation engineers and other construction equipment operators
Mining machine operators
Taxi drivers and chauffeurs
Athletes, coaches, umpires and related workers
Painters, construction and maintenance
Firefighters
Electricians

 

[Lshap]

I guess I disagree with the false equivalence of bad behavior on behalf of a random looter and a trained police officer. As I've said previously in the thread, police officers should be held to a higher standard. 1% poor outcomes for them is still pretty ****ty for what's supposed to be a disciplined, well-trained and trustworthy police force. They're an organization that wields legitimate authority handed down from the government. If you can't handle being held to that high standard, then maybe being a cop is not the right job for you.

I take "bad apples" on the protestor side as disappointing but ultimately something no organization is accountable for. It's a random element of how a minority of citizens express themselves in a ****ty situation like this one. you're probably gonna hate that answer but eh we'll have to disagree

btw that's to say nothing about extremely suspicious recorded incidents such as these, where it seems likely that cops and/or alt-right provocateurs are deliberately engaging in that behavior to discredit the protests

There's no false equivalency. I'm not saying looters should be held to the same standards as cops; I'm saying they should be held to the same standards as regular people, you know, people like us who don't bash in store windows, clean out merchandise, and then burn random cars. I have no sympathy for parasites who feed off legitimate protests for personal profit.

Nobody sees a looted store and thinks, "Society needs to be better"; they think, "Society needs to be protected from people who loot stores". Once stuff starts breaking, the message gets lost and everybody's circling their wagons. We need to separate the assholes from the honest protesters in order for any kind of statement to have an impact. But that means protesters have to suck it up and cooperate more transparently with police to weed out the poison. And it means police have to suck it up and serve & protect legit protests.

 

[Lshap]

In the US, it has sadly become common practice for cops to gun down suspects at the slightest hint of a weapon, leading to a lot of tragic false positives.

Here is one of the more famous examples, sadly there have been literally hundreds more like that over years, and surprise, they happen disproportionately to minorities of color. So what's what I'm talking about. It's bull**** and it's got to stop.

Shooting of Amadou Diallo - Wikipedia

No argument here. This is the core issue, and I think it starts with the police chief, or whomever is in charge of the officers on the street. We've been looking at the individual cops -- as we should -- but we need to look behind the scenes, at what's happening before these young men hit the streets. What tone is their superior setting? What instructions are they given? What standards are being imposed? While we're prosecuting the cops who acted criminally, we shouldn't give a pass to the head cops who train them and send them out there.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

There's no false equivalency. I'm not saying looters should be held to the same standards as cops; I'm saying they should be held to the same standards as regular people, you know, people like us who don't bash in store windows, clean out merchandise, and then burn random cars. I have no sympathy for parasites who feed off legitimate protests for personal profit.

Nobody sees a looted store and thinks, "Society needs to be better"; they think, "Society needs to be protected from people who loot stores". Once stuff starts breaking, the message gets lost and everybody's circling their wagons. We need to separate the assholes from the honest protesters in order for any kind of statement to have an impact. But that means protesters have to suck it up and cooperate more transparently with police to weed out the poison. And it means police have to suck it up and serve & protect legit protests.

Context is important here. In normal circumstances, we don't have a random looter problem. That's emergent from the current protests, and it'll go away when the protests die down. But we do have a police brutality problem. Before the protests, during the protests, and sadly afterward too.

So to me it's a hand-waving distraction to say "hey but what about the looters!!", and it deflects attention away the problems of police brutality and systemic racism.

 

[Lshap]

Context is important here. In normal circumstances, we don't have a random looter problem. That's emergent from the current protests, and it'll go away when the protests die down. But we do have a police brutality problem. Before the protests, during the protests, and sadly afterward too.

So to me it's a hand-waving distraction to say "hey but what about the looters!!", and it deflects attention away the problems of police brutality and systemic racism.

I agree completely that looting a distraction. But let's be clear -- it's the looters who are causing the distraction. And that's exactly why the protesters should be helping police weed them out. The last thing legitimate protesters should want is their message being drowned out by broken glass, fires, and theft. The point is to call out the police, not create situations where the police are actually needed.

 

[ahmedou]

That's bap''COVID''tism:

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

I agree completely that looting a distraction. But let's be clear -- it's the looters who are causing the distraction.

We'll have to disagree. IMO more harm to the conversation on systemic racism and police brutality is being done by those comfortable, middle class "what about the looters!!" people than the looters themselves. Because if it wasn't the looting, it'd be something else. They're looking for any excuse to distract away from the real issues and obstruct actual change. They aren't directly affected by these issues, and they don't want to be inconvenienced by committing to actual changes to their lifestyle.

And that's exactly why the protesters should be helping police weed them out.

This has been occurring btw. Nice to see.

 

[OldCraig71]

That's bap''COVID''tism:

View attachment 349091

There are so many places I could go with this photo but every one of them would get me a long vacation on Hf hab island so I will say nothing at all.

 

[MXD]

I really could do without my nose acting like it's Vandal Vyxen.

 

[waffledave]

The whole 'defund the police' thing baffles me. I can't see this ending well for the people proposing it.

There are cities where the police get $300 million and the fire department gets $10 million. Why do these cops need tanks and machine guns? What is the message we are sending with that? If the police actually need that level of artillery to combat local crime we need to seriously examine what the f*** is happening in our society.

 

[Lshap]

We'll have to disagree. IMO more harm to the conversation on systemic racism and police brutality is being done by those comfortable, middle class "what about the looters!!" people than the looters themselves. Because if it wasn't the looting, it'd be something else. They're looking for any excuse to distract away from the real issues and obstruct actual change. They aren't directly affected by these issues, and they don't want to be inconvenienced by committing to actual changes to their lifestyle.

That's a collection of made-up caricatures about the middle class. It's not real. What's real is the damage done by real looters who destroy real property. If you're going to make excuses for their behaviour and relieve them of accountability, how can you seriously turn around and demand accountability from others?

 

[waffledave]

I seriously do not get why Trump refuses to wear a mask. He is openly doing the opposite of the official public health recommendations in his own country and globally. Why? What message is he trying to send here?


I saw some speculate he feels it shows weakness. Imagine if your image was so fragile that wearing a mask would hurt you. So f***ing childish. Literally it is an 8 year old's idea of toughness.