Dont understand the people who dont trade Paccioretty vs Oreilly just because that dont make us a contender. Oreilly made us a better team at short, medium and long term. So why not ?
You don't want the better player that is younger, a center and signed longer...Personally, I dont want to trade Pacioretty for O'Reilly not because it doesn't make us a contender....
Only because I think the Habs should keep those deals separate
What do you mean by that?Multiple factors at play here.
Position, age, versatility.
Pacioretty is an elite goal scorer.
He just lacks everywhere else. We also don’t know what kind of term he wants on a contract. I’d certainly rather have ROR til 32 than pacioretty til 37. (If that’s the case)
Bergeving meeting media at 7pm
not good...
Firstly...I don't think he's a better player. He just plays a position that we need to fill.You don't want the better player that is younger, a center and signed longer...
It's part of their YEARLY "meet the press before the draft" and every year we go through this as though it's going to be any different.Can't find a source for that. Where'd you see it?
But if we aren't even competing, we should have absolutely no problem retaining like 1.5 M if it helps to get more back. Even at 7.5 he should return more. Centers are crazy valuable, and ROR is a very good one.Firstly...I don't think he's a better player. He just plays a position that we need to fill.
But better would imply that I think ROR would make more of a difference for this team than MP has...and I don't believe that to be the case.
Secondly...i'm not sure whether ROR signed for 5 more yrs @ 7.5M is good, or bad. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I don't think that's a contract we can absorb, but it's not a great contract if you ask me.
It's part of their YEARLY "meet the press before the draft" and every year we go through this as though it's going to be any different.
Its nothing more than that.
It's part of their YEARLY "meet the press before the draft" and every year we go through this as though it's going to be any different.
Its nothing more than that.
Can't find a source for that. Where'd you see it?
It's not about being fair. It's about the reality. ROR isnt better than a lot of the 2Cs in our conference. By the time we legitimately develop any of the talent we need to build around him (god knows we aren't gonna do it through trades and free agency) you're already looking at him pushing 30.. and for a guy who's not the strongest skater in the first place.. on a high pace league..
He played behind Eichel who's better than anything he will have here and that still wasn't enough to propel them over the lowly Sens or Wings. Even us. Yes their defense and goaltending wasn't great but you can't say ours was either. So how big really is his impact?
Dont understand the people who dont trade Paccioretty vs Oreilly just because that dont make us a contender. Oreilly made us a better team at short, medium and long term. So why not ?
Firstly...I don't think he's a better player. He just plays a position that we need to fill.
But better would imply that I think ROR would make more of a difference for this team than MP has...and I don't believe that to be the case.
Secondly...i'm not sure whether ROR signed for 5 more yrs @ 7.5M is good, or bad. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I don't think that's a contract we can absorb, but it's not a great contract if you ask me.
I agree...but what does swapping one for the other do for the Montreal Canadiens.I think he Oreilly can be talked in the same sentence as Paccioretty impact wise, we can argue that he is better, like we can argue that pacciorrety is better too. But Oreilly is a center and it is harder to acquire and to develop than a winger.
fair pointAnd about his contract 7.5 is a bit oveirpaid, but his contract finish when he is 32 years old (that a very good timing) and Paccioretty is about to sign a contract that will bring him to his late 30 with a cap hit of like 7M. So Oreilly contract is a huge win
To pacioretty is a player that isn’t providing much when he isn’t scoring. Sure he can PK, but he becomes largely invisible when he’s struggling offensively. Furthermore, he isn’t very good at playmaking for his line mates. He’s a goal scorer who skates well, and can play PK.What do you mean by that?
How does he lack "everywhere" else? It's not like ROR is a perfect player either, he has his own lackings
It may......once.......he’s a 20-25 goal scorer in my opinion, which is good!!So you believe Galchenyuk's 30 goals will never be replicated in his career? I'd bet some vcash with you on that.
It's overpriced for sure, but ROR is a FANTASTIC hockey player and fills a huge need. He'd be the best centre the Habs have had since Koivu. He's good. Probably in the RyJo tier.I think he Oreilly can be talked in the same sentence as Paccioretty impact wise, we can argue that he is better, like we can argue that pacciorrety is better too. But Oreilly is a center and it is harder to acquire and to develop than a winger.
And about his contract 7.5 is a bit oveirpaid, but his contract finish when he is 32 years old (that a very good timing) and Paccioretty is about to sign a contract that will bring him to his late 30 with a cap hit of like 7M. So Oreilly contract is a huge win
I think he Oreilly can be talked in the same sentence as Paccioretty impact wise, we can argue that he is better, like we can argue that pacciorrety is better too. But Oreilly is a center and it is harder to acquire and to develop than a winger.
And about his contract 7.5 is a bit oveirpaid, but his contract finish when he is 32 years old (that a very good timing) and Paccioretty is about to sign a contract that will bring him to his late 30 with a cap hit of like 7M. So Oreilly contract is a huge win
You can say the same thing about Ovechkin, Tarasenko, Laine and a host of other goal scoring forward.To pacioretty is a player that isn’t providing much when he isn’t scoring. Sure he can PK, but he becomes largely invisible when he’s struggling offensively. Furthermore, he isn’t very good at playmaking for his line mates. He’s a goal scorer who skates well, and can play PK.
Agreed, he's more versatile and more useful when not scoring.ROR is different. He’s a Center, who’s excellent defensively. He’s very good at faceoffs. He can play wing just as well. His stick work and board play is very good. If he’s not scoring, he’s still defending against top centers, he’s still winning faceoffs, and he’s still setting up teammates.
IMO, he’s just simply more versatile.
While all of this is true...Max Pacioretty, barring 64 games last year, has been one of the NHL most consistent and dangerous goal scorers and this despite having David Desharnais and Tomas Plekanec as his centers.He’s not perfect. His skating leaves a bit wanting, although it hasn’t held him back. And he doesn’t really have any elite offensive skills.
But he simply provides more all around game than Pacioretty. The fact that he’s younger and his contract is for 5 years through his prime, rather than potentially having to pay pacioretty for 7 years and past his prime is just more icing on the cake.
Now, trade value is relative to each team. I’m not here stating ROR is worth 2 paciorettys. Don’t get me wrong. I just have far more pros in Ror’s bank than I do in Pacioretty’s.
Edit: as an extra plus, ROR does ALL the heavy lifiting if you’re hoping to develop your own prospect Center. Defensive zone starts, and top matchups.
Because the team will still sucks in the short/medium term and the long term benefit is pretty debatable (because "long" is very much undefined here).
That said, while that's not the trade I would do with Patche, I wouldn't freak out if it was to happen.
Unless you get a top 10 picks for Pacioretty as aprt of a deal, i don't care about other draft picks.
Mid 1st round pick would bring us a Kostitsyn, Leblanc, Fischer, Tinordi, Beaulieu or another Pacioretty at best.
Ryan O'reilly is a sure thing.
Unless you get a top 10 picks for Pacioretty as part of a deal, i don't care about other draft picks.
Mid 1st round pick would bring us a Kostitsyn, Leblanc, Fischer, Tinordi, Beaulieu or another Pacioretty at best.
Ryan O'reilly is a sure thing.
There is no issue with ROR as far as I am concerned.
My issues, all of them, are timetable related. At the pace Bergevin is fixing this team issues, I don't think ROR presence will be in sync with this team readiness to compete (for real).
If our timeline to rebuild and compete is 4 years I can see ROR still being serviceable as a #2C, not unlike Pleks was when he was 31 or 32.