Rumor: Cost for ROR?

[Belial]

It's too hard to understand...

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Dont understand the people who dont trade Paccioretty vs Oreilly just because that dont make us a contender. Oreilly made us a better team at short, medium and long term. So why not ?

because people want to rebuild and have a 1st pick instead of getting almost 30 year olds player

 

[The Great Weal]

Personally, I dont want to trade Pacioretty for O'Reilly not because it doesn't make us a contender....

Only because I think the Habs should keep those deals separate

You don't want the better player that is younger, a center and signed longer...

 

[417]

Multiple factors at play here.

Position, age, versatility.

Pacioretty is an elite goal scorer.
He just lacks everywhere else. We also don’t know what kind of term he wants on a contract. I’d certainly rather have ROR til 32 than pacioretty til 37. (If that’s the case)

What do you mean by that?

How does he lack "everywhere" else? It's not like ROR is a perfect player either, he has his own lackings

 

[Runner77]

Bergeving meeting media at 7pm

not good...

Can't find a source for that. Where'd you see it?

 

[417]

You don't want the better player that is younger, a center and signed longer...

Firstly...I don't think he's a better player. He just plays a position that we need to fill.

But better would imply that I think ROR would make more of a difference for this team than MP has...and I don't believe that to be the case.

Secondly...i'm not sure whether ROR signed for 5 more yrs @ 7.5M is good, or bad. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I don't think that's a contract we can absorb, but it's not a great contract if you ask me.

 

[417]

Can't find a source for that. Where'd you see it?

It's part of their YEARLY "meet the press before the draft" and every year we go through this as though it's going to be any different.

Its nothing more than that.

 

[The Great Weal]

Firstly...I don't think he's a better player. He just plays a position that we need to fill.

But better would imply that I think ROR would make more of a difference for this team than MP has...and I don't believe that to be the case.

Secondly...i'm not sure whether ROR signed for 5 more yrs @ 7.5M is good, or bad. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I don't think that's a contract we can absorb, but it's not a great contract if you ask me.

But if we aren't even competing, we should have absolutely no problem retaining like 1.5 M if it helps to get more back. Even at 7.5 he should return more. Centers are crazy valuable, and ROR is a very good one.

 

[justafan22]

It's part of their YEARLY "meet the press before the draft" and every year we go through this as though it's going to be any different.

Its nothing more than that.

I ave trust in the scouting department and Trevor, I am open to anything

blah blah blah

 

[Runner77]

It's part of their YEARLY "meet the press before the draft" and every year we go through this as though it's going to be any different.

Its nothing more than that.

True, he has one every year.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Can't find a source for that. Where'd you see it?

RDS had this for like 2min on the main page that Bergevin would meet media at 7pm but.... it got removed

edit here

 

[scrubadam]

It's not about being fair. It's about the reality. ROR isnt better than a lot of the 2Cs in our conference. By the time we legitimately develop any of the talent we need to build around him (god knows we aren't gonna do it through trades and free agency) you're already looking at him pushing 30.. and for a guy who's not the strongest skater in the first place.. on a high pace league..

He played behind Eichel who's better than anything he will have here and that still wasn't enough to propel them over the lowly Sens or Wings. Even us. Yes their defense and goaltending wasn't great but you can't say ours was either. So how big really is his impact?

Well thats why we hope that Phoeling or if we draft a C tomorrow or next year can develop, and they would develop a lot better with ROR doing the heavier defensive lifting. Even Drouin could benefit developing at C(if thats what the org wants) playing behind ROR.

ROR could still have a lot to give for the next 5 years. Statsny and Buff were huge for WPG this year at 32 years old.

I don't think you need 5 years to turn things around in the NHL today. If you can get the right picks, some astute trades and signings then you can quickly turn things around.

As far as contending we have to hope that the NHL will bring more parity. The last decade saw 3 teams dominate the cup. No matter how good the team would of been odds of them stacking up against the LA's/CHI/Pens was pretty low. CHI/LA look like they are out of the dynasty phase. So if parity can come back to the NHL then I think things open up even more.

 

[OnTheRun]

Dont understand the people who dont trade Paccioretty vs Oreilly just because that dont make us a contender. Oreilly made us a better team at short, medium and long term. So why not ?

Because the team will still sucks in the short/medium term and the long term benefit is pretty debatable (because "long" is very much undefined here).

That said, while that's not the trade I would do with Patche, I wouldn't freak out if it was to happen.

 

[Johnny31]

Firstly...I don't think he's a better player. He just plays a position that we need to fill.

But better would imply that I think ROR would make more of a difference for this team than MP has...and I don't believe that to be the case.

Secondly...i'm not sure whether ROR signed for 5 more yrs @ 7.5M is good, or bad. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I don't think that's a contract we can absorb, but it's not a great contract if you ask me.

I think he Oreilly can be talked in the same sentence as Paccioretty impact wise, we can argue that he is better, like we can argue that pacciorrety is better too. But Oreilly is a center and it is harder to acquire and to develop than a winger.

And about his contract 7.5 is a bit oveirpaid, but his contract finish when he is 32 years old (that a very good timing) and Paccioretty is about to sign a contract that will bring him to his late 30 with a cap hit of like 7M. So Oreilly contract is a huge win

 

[417]

I think he Oreilly can be talked in the same sentence as Paccioretty impact wise, we can argue that he is better, like we can argue that pacciorrety is better too. But Oreilly is a center and it is harder to acquire and to develop than a winger.

I agree...but what does swapping one for the other do for the Montreal Canadiens.

that's really all that matters.

and IMO, it doesn't move the needle.

And about his contract 7.5 is a bit oveirpaid, but his contract finish when he is 32 years old (that a very good timing) and Paccioretty is about to sign a contract that will bring him to his late 30 with a cap hit of like 7M. So Oreilly contract is a huge win

fair point

 

[EdAVSfan]

What do you mean by that?

How does he lack "everywhere" else? It's not like ROR is a perfect player either, he has his own lackings

To pacioretty is a player that isn’t providing much when he isn’t scoring. Sure he can PK, but he becomes largely invisible when he’s struggling offensively. Furthermore, he isn’t very good at playmaking for his line mates. He’s a goal scorer who skates well, and can play PK.

ROR is different. He’s a Center, who’s excellent defensively. He’s very good at faceoffs. He can play wing just as well. His stick work and board play is very good. If he’s not scoring, he’s still defending against top centers, he’s still winning faceoffs, and he’s still setting up teammates.

IMO, he’s just simply more versatile.

He’s not perfect. His skating leaves a bit wanting, although it hasn’t held him back. And he doesn’t really have any elite offensive skills.

But he simply provides more all around game than Pacioretty. The fact that he’s younger and his contract is for 5 years through his prime, rather than potentially having to pay pacioretty for 7 years and past his prime is just more icing on the cake.

Now, trade value is relative to each team. I’m not here stating ROR is worth 2 paciorettys. Don’t get me wrong. I just have far more pros in Ror’s bank than I do in Pacioretty’s.

Edit: as an extra plus, ROR does ALL the heavy lifiting if you’re hoping to develop your own prospect Center. Defensive zone starts, and top matchups.

 

[jaffy27]

So you believe Galchenyuk's 30 goals will never be replicated in his career? I'd bet some vcash with you on that.

It may......once.......he’s a 20-25 goal scorer in my opinion, which is good!!

Tell you what, I’ll give him till the rest of his current contract to score 30.....don’t want this bet dragging into my fifties lol

 

[Andy]

I think he Oreilly can be talked in the same sentence as Paccioretty impact wise, we can argue that he is better, like we can argue that pacciorrety is better too. But Oreilly is a center and it is harder to acquire and to develop than a winger.

And about his contract 7.5 is a bit oveirpaid, but his contract finish when he is 32 years old (that a very good timing) and Paccioretty is about to sign a contract that will bring him to his late 30 with a cap hit of like 7M. So Oreilly contract is a huge win

It's overpriced for sure, but ROR is a FANTASTIC hockey player and fills a huge need. He'd be the best centre the Habs have had since Koivu. He's good. Probably in the RyJo tier.

The team needs centres, desperately. I don't know what the price will be, but man, the Habs need to pursue it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think he Oreilly can be talked in the same sentence as Paccioretty impact wise, we can argue that he is better, like we can argue that pacciorrety is better too. But Oreilly is a center and it is harder to acquire and to develop than a winger.

And about his contract 7.5 is a bit oveirpaid, but his contract finish when he is 32 years old (that a very good timing) and Paccioretty is about to sign a contract that will bring him to his late 30 with a cap hit of like 7M. So Oreilly contract is a huge win

Patch will negotiate a NMC too so there is value with ROR for 5 years. I have no problem with this kind of trade. Don’t touch the future though!

 

[417]

To pacioretty is a player that isn’t providing much when he isn’t scoring. Sure he can PK, but he becomes largely invisible when he’s struggling offensively. Furthermore, he isn’t very good at playmaking for his line mates. He’s a goal scorer who skates well, and can play PK.

You can say the same thing about Ovechkin, Tarasenko, Laine and a host of other goal scoring forward.

Yes, he's mainly a one-dimensional goal scorer...but that one dimension is EXTREMELY valuable.

ROR is different. He’s a Center, who’s excellent defensively. He’s very good at faceoffs. He can play wing just as well. His stick work and board play is very good. If he’s not scoring, he’s still defending against top centers, he’s still winning faceoffs, and he’s still setting up teammates.

IMO, he’s just simply more versatile.

Agreed, he's more versatile and more useful when not scoring.

He’s not perfect. His skating leaves a bit wanting, although it hasn’t held him back. And he doesn’t really have any elite offensive skills.

But he simply provides more all around game than Pacioretty. The fact that he’s younger and his contract is for 5 years through his prime, rather than potentially having to pay pacioretty for 7 years and past his prime is just more icing on the cake.

Now, trade value is relative to each team. I’m not here stating ROR is worth 2 paciorettys. Don’t get me wrong. I just have far more pros in Ror’s bank than I do in Pacioretty’s.

Edit: as an extra plus, ROR does ALL the heavy lifiting if you’re hoping to develop your own prospect Center. Defensive zone starts, and top matchups.

While all of this is true...Max Pacioretty, barring 64 games last year, has been one of the NHL most consistent and dangerous goal scorers and this despite having David Desharnais and Tomas Plekanec as his centers.

Just imagine what he could do with even a low-end #1C.

 

[Milhouse40]

Because the team will still sucks in the short/medium term and the long term benefit is pretty debatable (because "long" is very much undefined here).

That said, while that's not the trade I would do with Patche, I wouldn't freak out if it was to happen.

Unless you get a top 10 picks for Pacioretty as part of a deal, i don't care about other draft picks.
Mid 1st round pick would bring us a Kostitsyn, Leblanc, Fischer, Tinordi, Beaulieu or another Pacioretty at best.

Ryan O'reilly is a sure thing.

 

[OnTheRun]

Unless you get a top 10 picks for Pacioretty as aprt of a deal, i don't care about other draft picks.
Mid 1st round pick would bring us a Kostitsyn, Leblanc, Fischer, Tinordi, Beaulieu or another Pacioretty at best.

Ryan O'reilly is a sure thing.

There is no issue with ROR as far as I am concerned.

My issues, all of them, are timetable related. At the pace Bergevin is fixing this team issues, I don't think ROR presence will be in sync with this team readiness to compete (for real).

 

[junyab]

Unless you get a top 10 picks for Pacioretty as part of a deal, i don't care about other draft picks.
Mid 1st round pick would bring us a Kostitsyn, Leblanc, Fischer, Tinordi, Beaulieu or another Pacioretty at best.

Ryan O'reilly is a sure thing.

How can you possibly lump Patches in with those misfits. lol

 

[junyab]

There is no issue with ROR as far as I am concerned.

My issues, all of them, are timetable related. At the pace Bergevin is fixing this team issues, I don't think ROR presence will be in sync with this team readiness to compete (for real).

If our timeline to rebuild and compete is 4 years I can see ROR still being serviceable as a #2C, not unlike Pleks was when he was 31 or 32.

 

[scrubadam]

If our timeline to rebuild and compete is 4 years I can see ROR still being serviceable as a #2C, not unlike Pleks was when he was 31 or 32.

Or we flip him for 1st or 2nd round picks in 4 years from now. He will only be 31 teams will have an interest.

You don't go from 0 to 60 in one step. Its not like if we draft top 5 next year the team will be complete and able to win a cup. So add talent along the way, just don't trade any top 10 or potential top 10 picks.