Rumor: Cost for ROR?

[Belial]

Anyone who wants ROR give me one reason how it makes us a contender and don't use the terms "better than what we have now" or "Tavares"

It's called building!

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Isn't this typical? If it was anything major it would be all over twitter

there is still time....

 

[417]

Not too sure about that. ROR would push Drouin out of the center position which would be massive. Drouin was playing a lot better on the wing. It also wouldn't rush Kotkaniemi/Poehling/whoever into a role that they aren't ready. ROR makes players around him so much better than Pacioretty can, and having that luxury for our young players is massive.

I don't think it would...trade Pacioretty for ROR, move Drouin back to wing

These are all cosmetic changes, nothing is being improved upon to built on...we're just shuffling chairs and the people who sit in them.

 

[Kimota]

You're underselling Krejci who's a playoff beast. Then Kadri last few seasons is every bit if not better than ROR. point is better. Backstrom. Malkin

Then we lose the Trump card of Price against most of those teams as well since they all boast talented netminders.. and it's clear this current iteration with ROR will not match up

However if you draft Kotkaniemis and get one of the top C's next year. You've already addressed the middle and you have ELCs to play with.

Hey Buffalo needs a goalie...

 

[Not The One]

Well for one thing having ROR would force the whiners to get new material.

But seriously, shoudn't it be obvious why the Habs need good Cs more than Ws? If now ROR, or Tavares (very unlikely) then whom?

 

[417]

But you're also missing at minimum a number 1C and a 1LD and once you use assets on ROR, how will you have the assets for the rest? And in my opinion ROR isn't good enough as a 2 to go head to head against other 2s in our conference.

That's why i'm opposed to using Pacioretty in a perspective deal for ROR.

 

[417]

Yes, it’s entirely possible the needle won’t move, if we’re looking at this one move.

BUT, it can have a significant impact further down the line, depending on how you fill your roster, with additional moves.

This isn’t about just looking at this one player in a vacuum and comparing the current roster with pacioretty vs ROR.

It’s about projecting, and solving more important holes so that the team is more well rounded moving forward, and can and should pay dividends later on.

I just simply disagree with your premise that the habs can acquire Ror with secondary assets.

Sure...but once you move Pacioretty, who is by far your best trade chip.

You're not left with much to work with to improve your roster.

 

[scrubadam]

The pick is a shot at a player and a part of the rebuild. It also takes talent off the current roster that can create wins. By removing Patches and helping finish the lottery not only do you have a chance to draft a player who will feature on a future team but also increase your chances of finishing in the top 10 of the next few drafts. Hitting those top 10 picks and getting the players in the premium positions is what it takes to contend.

That's similar to how every other cup winners core was created.

Of course leaving out the trades and signings the teams did. Kessel/Haglin/Bonino. Oshie/Eller. Carter/Richards.

Yes the team needs to draft, but if you can add a talent down the middle like ROR go for it (as long as its not costing important draft picks).

Even with ROR the team still probably will struggle and will be looking at a good pick.

Habs already have Drouin(3rd) and tomorrows 3rd. Rome wasn't build in a day but if you can add a golden brick go ahead and do it.

 

[417]

I dont know about that honestly
Centers help 2 wingers on a line, where as 1 scoring winger helps himself...and needs help to do it..

If you swap a winger for a center with HOPEs that that center in turn helps the 2 other wingers increase their production,..the needle moves a little. lol

Even the best center in the game, was on an island by himself this year (Connor McDavid).

I'm telling you, if we use Pacioretty to acquire Ryan O'Reilly...we're going to go from complaining about having no C's, to having no wingers who can finish.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Sure...but once you move Pacioretty, who is by far your best trade chip.

You're not left with much to work with to improve your roster.

Moving pacioretty for some futures and then trading for ROR with futures leaves you in the same spot as well. Just different futures.

Unless you assume you’ll get better futures for Pacioretty than you would trade for Ror.

Otherwise, assuming a zero gain, you’re left with the exact same amount of assets.

Is it your contention that the pacioretty assets will exceed the assets given for ROR? Because that’s the only way your logic can make sense to me.

If you can acquire ROR with the assets you’ve suggested, why couldn’t you use them to acquire a different Center?

 

[Kimota]

Well for one thing having ROR would force the whiners to get new material.

But seriously, shoudn't it be obvious why the Habs need good Cs more than Ws? If now ROR, or Tavares (very unlikely) then whom?

There are many centers but it's just a matter of finding the right fit. NHL org. have analysis of every NHL players' strenghts and weaknesses. It's a bit strange that the Habs always have to wait for UFAs when there are trades to be made. It's weird that they have found nobody outthere and no team that would be willing to trade one. Hell it doesn't have to be number ones or twos, just get good centers periods. Habs had Chucky and Sergachev and there was no trading partners that would have been interested in getting those players for centers? Not even for Max? Again it doesn't have to be stars in return. Just someone that's a solid center.

 

[The Great Weal]

You're underselling Krejci who's a playoff beast. Then Kadri last few seasons is every bit if not better than ROR. point is better. Backstrom. Malkin

14 points in his last 27 games doesn't scream beast to me. You can't say that ROR isn't a playoff beast when he has barely played any playoff games. From 2013-2014 season, O'Reilly has had a higher PPG than Kadri in every season. Those guys also play with better players than O'Reilly. I'll give you Point because he is a monster, and I have already agreed with the other two. It's not fair to throw in Malkin. McDavid is the only center in the league right now that would get top 6 C time in Pittsburgh, nobody else can.

 

[417]

Moving pacioretty for some futures and then trading for ROR with futures leaves you in the same spot as well. Just different futures.

Not to mention MORE of them...

Unless you assume you’ll get better futures for Pacioretty than you would trade for Ror.

Otherwise, assuming a zero gain, you’re left with the exact same amount of assets.

Is it your contention that the pacioretty assets will exceed the assets given for ROR? Because that’s the only way your logic can make sense to me.

It depends...while there's concern over Pacioretty because he's and impending UFA.

Ryan O'Reilly's contract isn't exactly ideal either.

So depending on how a deal might be structured, yes, I do think Pacioretty could get more in a deal than ROR would.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Not to mention MORE of them...


It depends...while there's concern over Pacioretty because he's and impending UFA.

Ryan O'Reilly's contract isn't exactly ideal either.

So depending on how a deal might be structured, yes, I do think Pacioretty could get more in a deal than ROR would.

Ok fair enough.

Now at least I understand your angle.

I just disagree about their values.

 

[DAChampion]

History query: how did ROR slip to the second round of the 2009 draft?

 

[WeThreeKings]

14 points in his last 27 games doesn't scream beast to me. You can't say that ROR isn't a playoff beast when he has barely played any playoff games. From 2013-2014 season, O'Reilly has had a higher PPG than Kadri in every season. Those guys also play with better players than O'Reilly. I'll give you Point because he is a monster, and I have already agreed with the other two. It's not fair to throw in Malkin. McDavid is the only center in the league right now that would get top 6 C time in Pittsburgh, nobody else can.

It's not about being fair. It's about the reality. ROR isnt better than a lot of the 2Cs in our conference. By the time we legitimately develop any of the talent we need to build around him (god knows we aren't gonna do it through trades and free agency) you're already looking at him pushing 30.. and for a guy who's not the strongest skater in the first place.. on a high pace league..

He played behind Eichel who's better than anything he will have here and that still wasn't enough to propel them over the lowly Sens or Wings. Even us. Yes their defense and goaltending wasn't great but you can't say ours was either. So how big really is his impact?

 

[EdAVSfan]

History query: how did ROR slip to the second round of the 2009 draft?

Skating concern.

 

[WeThreeKings]

History query: how did ROR slip to the second round of the 2009 draft?

Skating and lack of top end skills.

 

[Johnny31]

Dont understand the people who dont trade Paccioretty vs Oreilly just because that dont make us a contender. Oreilly made us a better team at short, medium and long term. So why not ?

 

[417]

Ok fair enough.

Now at least I understand your angle.

I just disagree about their values.

well as it relates to HFBoards value...

based on what i've read today or in recent weeks.

I'd definitely come to the conclusion that ROR is overrated while Max Pacioretty is underrated.

 

[Redux91]

Dont understand the people who dont trade Paccioretty vs Oreilly just because that dont make us a contender. Oreilly made us a better team at short, medium and long term. So why not ?

Thats the way im looking at it as well, the chatter now tho is people think Max still has something left in the tank vs the people who think hes absolutely and utterly finished as a dominant scorer and we should get something for him asap lol

 

[Price is Wright]

It's called building!

 

[417]

Dont understand the people who dont trade Paccioretty vs Oreilly just because that dont make us a contender. Oreilly made us a better team at short, medium and long term. So why not ?

Personally, I dont want to trade Pacioretty for O'Reilly not because it doesn't make us a contender....

Only because I think the Habs should keep those deals separate

 

[The Great Weal]

It's not about being fair. It's about the reality. ROR isnt better than a lot of the 2Cs in our conference. By the time we legitimately develop any of the talent we need to build around him (god knows we aren't gonna do it through trades and free agency) you're already looking at him pushing 30.. and for a guy who's not the strongest skater in the first place.. on a high pace league..

He played behind Eichel who's better than anything he will have here and that still wasn't enough to propel them over the lowly Sens or Wings. Even us. Yes their defense and goaltending wasn't great but you can't say ours was either. So how big really is his impact?

I just provided a list that I think otherwise. I have already agreed with some of them, but he is very clearly better than a lot of the 2cs in the league, and the ones that aren't would be better than some teams 1c. I really don't understand why we wouldn't be able to flip him later on when a Koktaniemi or Hughes or whoever will be ready to take over. He is younger than Pacioretty and signed longterm, he will get far more value than him if we decide to flip him.

He actually played more than Eichel. I'm not saying that Eichel isn't better, but he has played more than Eichel. His impact by swapping him for Pacioretty is evident by helping young players like a Scherbak or Drouin play at a position of strength and help them A LOT more than Pacioretty. In no way shape or form am I saying that we should give up future assets for him, quite the opposite.

 

[EdAVSfan]

well as it relates to HFBoards value...

based on what i've read today or in recent weeks.

I'd definitely come to the conclusion that ROR is overrated while Max Pacioretty is underrated.

Multiple factors at play here.

Position, age, versatility.

Pacioretty is an elite goal scorer.
He just lacks everywhere else. We also don’t know what kind of term he wants on a contract. I’d certainly rather have ROR til 32 than pacioretty til 37. (If that’s the case)