OT: Coronavirus XXXII: Pfizer Vaccinations Being Administered in the UK and Soon Canada & the US

[Drivesaitl]

To everybody shopping in Malls anytime this week, next week. Why are you there? I mean if you must go shopping for anything but food requirements go to self contained stores where you can simply step in, and out. In/out, repeat after me.

This message should be everywhere on social media. DON'T go to the Malls during the height of the pandemic of a Century. I mean its astounding that this has to be mentioned. But it seems like it should be stated EVERYWHERE. Spread the word, not the Covid virus.

This is not new, this is not unknown. Several outbreaks in Malls in September, and they were barely even seeing Covid Cases at that time. Now that it is winter, and people want to spend more time indoors, and in malls, it will be much worse. Guaranteed.

 

[joestevens29]

It would seem to be mostly out of jurisdiction shopping. For instance the two busiest Malls in the City, WEM and Southgate, both are located in areas that are less hard hit by the virus.

Epidemiology is made so much harder in the modern era of access to travel.

If it was always this way the Broadstreet London Cholera causing pump might not have been found.

Certainly the Malls themselves are not enforcing the 15% throughout, and it seems like nobody is checking.

WEM however did institute 15% at Galaxyland and they did this on their own, without requirement, months ago, in reopening the park.

But this is Xmas shopping season, and it seems like wild west (I'm not going)

Wife asks me what I want under the Xmas tree.

Me; Our health.

Wasn't the good Samitarian one of the hardest hit places in Edmonton at one time? Isn't that right by Southgate?

 

[joestevens29]

yeah that’s what I was hoping they would do


At least everyone is wearing masks?? Still way too crowded.

I'm not going to lie there isn't a place I've been where people aren't wearing masks. I was at WEM last week when they first opened up and everything looked fine. It's actually a pain when you come in sanitize your hands. Then walk into a store 30 seconds later and have to sanitize again.

Could on them for having staff at the entrances of where I went.

 

[tardigrade81]

I remember finding out with my wife that she was not vaccinated like 2 weeks after we discovered she was pregnant with our first, and this at the time when there were quite a few chickenpox outbrakes around.

Feels kind of irrelevant in these times . All is relative to covid now, but at the time it was worrying and she did many of the things we do now on a daily basis (distance, hand hygiene, no masks though).

Yes it’s definitely a different world that’s for sure. Granted once the vaccine is here, everything will start going back to normal..... what a shame. There is definitely some people that should keep masks on lol (I used to work at a bank, and we got some really nasty people with smoke breath)

 

[Drivesaitl]

WEM is saying that these are their restrictions. But what would be the capacity of the entire Mall and how many people were in there, reportedly packed, on the weekend?

edit; clarification, the picture was on Saturday, and of droves packing in WEM a day before restrictions went into effect. Still, my understanding was that the former restriction put into place was 25% for retail outlets.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) West Edmonton Mall Updates | West Edmonton Mall (wem.ca)

Also, for people to be aware of Curb side pick up is available, maybe do it that way.

Curbside Pick Up | West Edmonton Mall (wem.ca)

The list is helpful and click on any retailer to see their pickup instructions.

I do appreciate the Mall itself is trying to be responsible, people frequenting the Mall need to make better decisions, be aware of other options, other than everybody being in the mall.

Transform your concept of Christmas. The gift that you bring others is YOU!

If that isn't the case, presents won't help..

 

[Drivesaitl]

Wasn't the good Samitarian one of the hardest hit places in Edmonton at one time? Isn't that right by Southgate?

Months ago. Yes, but currently that area isn't hard hit as almost every other area in Edmonton.

 

[Frank the Tank]

To be fair 17 million minks died in Denmark because of covid19 and the vaccine. That is objectively a true story

My concern about all those extraordinary, unsupported comments is that typical of most misinformation attempts there's just enough truth sprinkled in it so that one doesn't dismiss them outright.

The 17M minks in Denmark were culled because researchers detected a mutation in the SARS-CoV-2 virus that was spreading within the Danish mink population. Their concern was that if the mutated virus crossed over to humans it may make the vaccine's in development less effective so the minks were culled.

Covid-19: Denmark to kill 17 million minks over mutation that could undermine vaccine effort

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[NeverForget06]

I mean the "avoiding WEM like the plague" around Christmas jokes are really just too easy at this point.

I would love to go to WEM in a hazmat suit with an equally protected video-team and record a "man on the street" style video where I ask people what essential business they had at WEM that required them to be there during a pandemic.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This article seems to ignore whats happened around the world, and the USA. Aside from a couple vague sentences I'm the first paragraph, hardly any mention of the surges in Toronto, and Quebec, no mention of Manitoba having the highest increase (on per capita basis, and not to mention the long term care senior centers having the virus get in them, and exposing the debacle the Manitoba program is as a whole).

All this article really did was crap on the Alberta government (while praising Nenshi's comments) without providing much information on the responses in the other parts of the country.

Debate the policies all you want, but if you (the journalist) brand your article as a comparison to the other jurisdictions, then state which ones you think are correct so the reader knows what your making your comparisons against.

Nice run down.

The above is case illustration of how in present day people need to read actively, evaluate the information given, what angles, bias, inaccuracy contained.

The article starts out with the title and byline;

Alberta is leading Canada's brutal second wave of COVID infections. How did we get here?

Other provinces have struggled as well, but Alberta has more than a quarter of Canada's active cases, despite having only about 12 per cent of the country's population

Yet one of the reasons Alberta would be having more cases now is that we were not overrun with cases in the spring. So that our vulnerable and susceptible populations are getting this now, at the height of our pandemic now.

The article is unfairly looking at just the now, and saying Alberta has 25% of active cases in country now. Why not look at how Alberta has done through the pandemic?

Alberta for instance having 719 of the nations 13,500 deaths. With that representing only 5% of the Nations mortality toll. That kind of thing is left out, and its huge perspective left out, because it doesn't suit the angle the article is going for, which is to make Alberta seem like the worst Covid province in every regard.

 

[Little Fury]

Tread carefully. He may call us an echo chamber of educated intellectuals.

Oh wait dude is on that "vaccines cause autism" trip. Crazy.

 

[McJadeddog]

The "news" article is bait and switch. Look at the byline, look at the article. Read my other post if you want for more of a breakdown on what is wrong with the article.

The number one thing being is that Doctors in Alberta are not currently having to make decisions on who gets ICU. That is untrue.

Except in the article it seems to state they are telling some older patients they can't go to the hospital. It isn't 100% clear:

"Watson gives the example of older people — with serious underlying health problems — who may not be able to go to the ICU even though they want every measure taken to keep them alive.
"But we know that their chance of survival is much less than, for example, someone who is 30, 40 maybe 50 years old. So we're having to have conversations at the beginning of admissions that although they may want to go to the intensive care unit, it may not be an option. And those conversations are happening more frequently," she said.
"And that's not something that we're used to saying. I mean, we're used to being able to do everything we can.""

But even if I grant you that point, there are 3 things being said in the headline: 107% capacity, younger adults on vents and ICU not being guaranteed. 2 of those 3 things are for sure happening, and the third is in question, but almost assuredly will be happening soon. I'll grant you that they shouldn't have put that in the headline, but it wasn't even the main headline, it was the sub-headline. So if they were trying to do clickbait, as you seem to be suggesting, they are doing it wrong, lol.

 

[Little Fury]

Nice run down.

The above is case illustration of how in present day people need to read actively, evaluate the information given, what angles, bias, inaccuracy contained.

...

The article is unfairly looking at just the now, and saying Alberta has 25% of active cases in country now. Why not look at how Alberta has done through the pandemic?

This is the very first sentence of the article:

"On Sept. 5, six months after Alberta recorded its first case of a new disease called the novel coronavirus, the province had the pandemic under control."

Alberta for instance having 719 of the nations 13,500 deaths. With that representing only 5% of the Nations mortality toll. That kind of thing is left out, and its huge perspective left out, because it doesn't suit the angle the article is going for, which is to make Alberta seem like the worst Covid province in every regard.

The premise of the article, which is clearly stated, is that Alberta had things under control and then they blew it.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Except in the article it seems to state they are telling some older patients they can't go to the hospital. It isn't 100% clear:

"Watson gives the example of older people — with serious underlying health problems — who may not be able to go to the ICU even though they want every measure taken to keep them alive.
"But we know that their chance of survival is much less than, for example, someone who is 30, 40 maybe 50 years old. So we're having to have conversations at the beginning of admissions that although they may want to go to the intensive care unit, it may not be an option. And those conversations are happening more frequently," she said.
"And that's not something that we're used to saying. I mean, we're used to being able to do everything we can.""

But even if I grant you that point, there are 3 things being said in the headline: 107% capacity, younger adults on vents and ICU not being guaranteed. 2 of those 3 things are for sure happening, and the third is in question, but almost assuredly will be happening soon. I'll grant you that they shouldn't have put that in the headline, but it wasn't even the main headline, it was the sub-headline. So if they were trying to do clickbait, as you seem to be suggesting, they are doing it wrong, lol.

Throughout the pandemic most older patients have been dying in care homes. Have not even entered ICUs A very low proportion of +80 have ever made it to ICU's at all, throughout this pandemic in Alberta.

COVID-19 Alberta statistics | alberta.ca

As per the severe outcomes graphs, only 35 patients +80, have been in Alberta ICU's in contrast 469 in same cohort have died in Alberta. Many of those dying in Care homes.

The common theme with older than 80 patients is them dying in care homes. This not isolated to Alberta but country wide.

'We failed them' Report criticizes Canada's long-term care system before and during COVID-19 | National Post

It found that 81 per cent of Canada’s COVID-19 deaths have come in long-term care homes, far higher than what is reported in comparable countries, including a 31 per cent figure in the United States, 28 per cent in Australia and 66 per cent in Spain.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This is the very first sentence of the article:

"On Sept. 5, six months after Alberta recorded its first case of a new disease called the novel coronavirus, the province had the pandemic under control."



The premise of the article, which is clearly stated, is that Alberta had things under control and then they blew it.

Winter arrived on the prairies along with the pandemic of a century. This was going to hit magnitude in the most populated prairie province, in our cold dry winters.

This was Alberta on Sept 5.

The latest:

• No new numbers will be released by the province today.
• The province's tally of active cases of COVID-19 continued to climb on Friday, with 164 new cases, bringing the total to 1,433, up from 1,415 the day before.
• A meat-processing plant located north of Calgary is now connected to 74 cases of COVID-19, Alberta Health has confirmed.
• The Calgary Drop-In Centre said that as of Wednesday five people staying in its main shelter downtown had tested positive for the novel coronavirus. One new case of COVID-19 was also reported at Calgary's Alpha House.
• Calgary has 638 active cases as of Friday, down one from 639 on Thursday, after dipping below 300 in August.
• The Edmonton zone increased to 544, from 527 on Thursday.
• Fifteen regions around the province are under a "watch," which is declared when active cases surpass 50 per 100,000 people.
• Alberta could scale back its relaunch in particular sectors should cases substantially increase, said Dr. Deena Hinshaw,.

Quite clearly the pandemic had continued to circulate thoughout the summer and was poised for greater numbers come fall and winter, as has occurred. I mention this because the numbers were already steadily rising at that date and more than enough outbreak for subsequent growth.

The premise that Alberta "blew it" is itself subjective, its a biased angle.

Again Alberta,that "blew it" has only 5% of the nations Covid deaths. Looks like multiple other provinces "blew it" a lot worse.

Winter arrived EARLIER in Alberta than Canadas other populated provinces which are again catching up with current active numbers and deaths. Thats essentially the story, need not be Alberta specific. The more populated provinces in the nation are all experiencing this.

 

[MaxR11]

A lot of funny memes about the nightmare of 2020 ending, but come January 2021, our hospitals are going to be in a much worse situation then they are now, and restrictions will likely be extended. f*** me I hope this vaccine rollout is faster then some of the vibes I am currently getting. We desperately need that Moderna vaccine to be in production along with the Pfizer one.

 

[Little Fury]

Winter arrived on the prairies along with the pandemic of a century. This was going to hit magnitude in the most populated prairie province, in our cold dry winters.

...
Quite clearly the pandemic had continued to circulate thoughout the summer and was poised for greater numbers come fall and winter, as has occurred. I mention this because the numbers were already steadily rising at that date and more than enough outbreak for subsequent growth.

The premise that Alberta "blew it" is itself subjective, its a biased angle.

Only if you actually think that no policy action could have prevented this wave from being as bad as it has been.

Again Alberta,that "blew it" has only 5% of the nations Covid deaths. Looks like multiple other provinces "blew it" a lot worse.

Both of these things can be true.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Only if you actually think that no policy action could have prevented this wave from being as bad as it has been.



Both of these things can be true.

Reasonable statements, so I don't disagree.

Every jurisdiction could do more to mitigate, but at what other costs and balances.

In most free jurisdictions in the world Covid outbreaks and numbers have hastened the subsequent restrictions, in effect forced them. But theres been few examples of Contiguous land mass countries that have found success preventing outbreaks through strict lockdowns throughout.

its all mitigation, not prevention. The Pandemic spreads inexorably within mostly covid winters.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[Snipes45]

So we broke a 24 hour record in Alberta? Alberta just keeps one upping itself.

 

[yukoner88]

Nice run down.

The above is case illustration of how in present day people need to read actively, evaluate the information given, what angles, bias, inaccuracy contained.

The article starts out with the title and byline;

Alberta is leading Canada's brutal second wave of COVID infections. How did we get here?

Other provinces have struggled as well, but Alberta has more than a quarter of Canada's active cases, despite having only about 12 per cent of the country's population

Yet one of the reasons Alberta would be having more cases now is that we were not overrun with cases in the spring. So that our vulnerable and susceptible populations are getting this now, at the height of our pandemic now.

The article is unfairly looking at just the now, and saying Alberta has 25% of active cases in country now. Why not look at how Alberta has done through the pandemic?

Alberta for instance having 719 of the nations 13,500 deaths. With that representing only 5% of the Nations mortality toll. That kind of thing is left out, and its huge perspective left out, because it doesn't suit the angle the article is going for, which is to make Alberta seem like the worst Covid province in every regard.

Seems to be anemic to recent history too because for the bulk of November going into December Manitoba had the biggest jump in cases by a substantial margin, and plus even today, positive cases have dropped ever so slightly, but the positive percentage is still over 15% out here, which is almost double the percentages in Alberta

 

[Little Fury]

Reasonable statements, so I don't disagree.

Every jurisdiction could do more to mitigate, but at what other costs and balances.

In most free jurisdictions in the world Covid outbreaks and numbers have hastened the subsequent restrictions, in effect forced them. But theres been few examples of Contiguous land mass countries that have found success preventing outbreaks through strict lockdowns throughout.

its all mitigation, not prevention. The Pandemic spreads inexorably within mostly covid winters.

As such, it's fair game to question whether a particular government's efforts at mitigation were timely and effective. And yet there's the implication that any effort to do so is "biased" and "inaccurate."

 

[Oilhawks]

As such, it's fair game to question whether a particular government's efforts at mitigation were timely and effective. And yet there's the implication that any effort to do so is "biased" and "inaccurate."

Absolutely!

How do you feel about the federal response with regards to shutting down international travel and requiring that travelers quarantine for 2 weeks upon return to Canada? Or with providing clear information regarding the efficacy of masks and other PPE?

My feeling that as a so-called centralized federalist country it all starts at the top, and they failed at their duty to protect Canadians and provide clear direction to Canadians and provincial and municipal leaders. And if you're wondering, I would be critical of Harper or any other hypothetical 'conservative' federal leader reacted / prepared for the virus the same way.

 

[Little Fury]

Absolutely!

How do you feel about the federal response with regards to shutting down international travel and requiring that travelers quarantine for 2 weeks upon return to Canada? Or with providing clear information regarding the efficacy of masks and other PPE?

I think any government is going to make mistakes at the onset of a fast unfolding pandemic where information on the virus is scarce and changing all the time but if you want to write a piece on the feds' failures at that point, I'd be happy to read it.

My feeling that as a so-called centralized federalist country it all starts at the top, and they failed at their duty to protect Canadians and provide clear direction to Canadians and provincial and municipal leaders. And if you're wondering, I would be critical of Harper or any other hypothetical 'conservative' federal leader reacted / prepared for the virus the same way.

Well we aren't a "centralized federalist country" (whatever that means) we're a federation of 11 different entities with different legal responsibilities with healthcare and property/civil rights being the exclusive responsibility of the provinces, so the bulk of the public health response and lockdown measures would fall on the individual provinces.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Absolutely!

How do you feel about the federal response with regards to shutting down international travel and requiring that travelers quarantine for 2 weeks upon return to Canada? Or with providing clear information regarding the efficacy of masks and other PPE?

My feeling that as a so-called centralized federalist country it all starts at the top, and they failed at their duty to protect Canadians and provide clear direction to Canadians and provincial and municipal leaders. And if you're wondering, I would be critical of Harper or any other hypothetical 'conservative' federal leader reacted / prepared for the virus the same way.

Compared to who? You could try Texas?

What is the elegant free market solution here? The us is getting maximum deaths and a bad economy at the same time.