Coronavirus/NHL Suspension Talk

[Trojans86]

i'll be wearing a mask out in public until we have little to no new daily cases and it stays that way for at least a month. that's not gonna be for a very long time

the vaccine is being rushed but to think it won't be properly tested enough is ridiculous. there's zero chance pharmaceutical companies will risk losing billions in lawsuits because they failed to follow the necessary protocols on getting the vaccine to the public. but i don't expect a vaccine to be widely available until at least early next year

You must not know anything about vaccines. These pharma companies have it set up so you cant sue them for vaccine injuries. Instead you have to sue the US government. Seriously. I've never heard of it for another industry. To date the US government has given put over $4 billion for vaccine injuries so we know they have risk even though they say they are 100% safe. And no, they will not have proper safety studies. Think about it logically. They have to design the vaccine after the virus is put and the virus is constantly mutating. You cant have a year long safety study, let alone long term safety studies. This is another example of listening to the media which skews a narrative rather than listen to a dr who has looked into this.

 

[Trojans86]

masks have only become a political issue because one side has taken it as "liberal politicians are telling me to do something? i'll do the opposite!"

places like japan and SK have done so well in handling the pandemic because people had no problem wearing masks. here, it's been the opposite. it's almost like wearing masks actually helps! hint: the side crying about masks infringing on constitutional rights are the idiots in this fight

like i said, wearing a mask that is 60% effective is a whole lot better than not wearing one

People dont wear masks out of protests because they feel the danger of the coronavirus was way overblown and misleading and we have seriously damaged our economy by shutting down which will have serious long term effects. When it first surfaced we were told death rates were around 5%. If that is the case we all better be quarantining. That made sense. Then we were told that we will never be able to stop the spread of the virus, only slow it down. It is too viral to actually stop, but we dont want to overload the hospitals so we need to quarantine. Now we are in summer and we know the death rate is closer to 0.1-0.3% (nowhere near original projections), we know a lot of deaths were from not knowing how to treat (putting people on high pressure vents) so the death rate is much further down now, we know a lot of the deaths from immunocompromised individuals that were put in the worst possible situations in their nursing homes, etc., and we keep getting ominous news about reaching new spikes and the second wave is keeping. Its like we never paid attention to all of the information coming out and we were fed fear inducing news the whole time while people are losing jobs and companies are going bankrupt. Look at the numbers, they are extremely low compared to the peak even though all the news talks about is new spikes. We are in summer where the hospitals have tons of capacity. This is literally the best time to get the virus through the population rather than waiting for flu season when hospitals will be impacted by the next flu season.

That's why things dont add up. The amount of debt this country will have coming out of this is going to be scary. If you thought things were going to bounce right back to normal then you have another thing coming.

 

[GreatBear]

This is another example of listening to the media which skews a narrative rather than listen to a dr who has looked into this.

Every profession has members with a spectrum of opinions. You seem to have found a doctor who apparently has opinions outside of the medical mainstream. Good luck with that, but don't whine if you get sick or die as a result of not taking a vaccine.

Now we are in summer and we know the death rate is closer to 0.1-0.3%

I have no idea where you are getting this number. At least give us a source so we can analysis the basis for the opinion from the source. Just spouting numbers is not convincing to anyone other than yourself. Using the John Hopkins data the case/fatality ratio, based upon identified cases, is still over 5% in much of the United States. In California it is 3.40%. These are actually low numbers compared to other countries, including those in Europe.

 

[Terry Yake]

People dont wear masks out of protests because they feel the danger of the coronavirus was way overblown and misleading and we have seriously damaged our economy by shutting down which will have serious long term effects. When it first surfaced we were told death rates were around 5%. If that is the case we all better be quarantining. That made sense. Then we were told that we will never be able to stop the spread of the virus, only slow it down. It is too viral to actually stop, but we dont want to overload the hospitals so we need to quarantine. Now we are in summer and we know the death rate is closer to 0.1-0.3% (nowhere near original projections), we know a lot of deaths were from not knowing how to treat (putting people on high pressure vents) so the death rate is much further down now, we know a lot of the deaths from immunocompromised individuals that were put in the worst possible situations in their nursing homes, etc., and we keep getting ominous news about reaching new spikes and the second wave is keeping. Its like we never paid attention to all of the information coming out and we were fed fear inducing news the whole time while people are losing jobs and companies are going bankrupt. Look at the numbers, they are extremely low compared to the peak even though all the news talks about is new spikes. We are in summer where the hospitals have tons of capacity. This is literally the best time to get the virus through the population rather than waiting for flu season when hospitals will be impacted by the next flu season.

That's why things dont add up. The amount of debt this country will have coming out of this is going to be scary. If you thought things were going to bounce right back to normal then you have another thing coming.

the death rate is far higher than 0.1-0.3% what source did you get that from?

the only way we could've actually stopped the spread of the virus is if we had gone into complete lockdown for a few months. but obviously that was never gonna happen. instead of blaming the media for "spreading fear" or whatever else, just look at the numbers. here in OC, we're seeing close to 200 or more daily cases each day and our hospitalization/ICU numbers are higher than ever. yet everywhere has reopened. you're gonna tell me that's a good idea?

hospitals haven't been overrun because we went into partial lockdown. now with everything open and numbers going up due to that, the protests, and memorial day weekend, who knows if it'll stay that way. we chose the economy over people's lives and we'll have to live with the results. ICUs in some states are already getting pretty close to capacity

 

[Deuce22]

So you don't trust the medical professionals but are you going to take your doctor's advice to not take the vaccine? And how does she know at this time that it will not be effective? I guess that you are lucky to have a doctor who can foretell the future so well. I would rather have a doctor who would evaluate the vaccine based upon all of the information available at the time, not on what he/she thinks is going to happen. I will take a vaccine when my doctors says that in his opinion he feels that it is safe and effective.

I agree that there is a risk that the FDA will approve a vaccine that is not as effective as it should be, or which has undesirable side effects. There is a valid concern that an effort is being made to rush a vaccine too quickly, and there are some experimental approaches being taken to this vaccine. It is certainly worth study and analysis to determine whether it is appropriate to take. But to predict now and today that you should not take it because it will be rushed to market to make money is, in my opinion, irresponsible and unprofessional. I would be changing doctors.

No offense, but I will defer to my doc's expertise. Her credentials are very impressive and her opinion that a vaccine taken 4-6 years to properly vet for all pre-existing conditions makes sense to me. Plus, my life experience is that whenever big money is involved, corruption ensues.

 

[Deuce22]

the death rate is far higher than 0.1-0.3% what source did you get that from?

the only way we could've actually stopped the spread of the virus is if we had gone into complete lockdown for a few months. but obviously that was never gonna happen. instead of blaming the media for "spreading fear" or whatever else, just look at the numbers. here in OC, we're seeing close to 200 or more daily cases each day and our hospitalization/ICU numbers are higher than ever. yet everywhere has reopened. you're gonna tell me that's a good idea?

hospitals haven't been overrun because we went into partial lockdown. now with everything open and numbers going up due to that, the protests, and memorial day weekend, who knows if it'll stay that way. we chose the economy over people's lives and we'll have to live with the results. ICUs in some states are already getting pretty close to capacity

The balance between public health and freedom/liberty is tenuous. I don't pretend to know the absolute correct answer, but do know that a lot of b.s. has been thrown out from the extremes on both political sides. Those who educate themselves so they are able to make the best decision on how to live are ahead of the game, IMO.

 

[Static]

 

[Terry Yake]

******* disgusting

those people deserve nothing but the worst. bunch of brainwashed wackjobs

 

[Sojourn]

I really don't understand how wearing masks became such a divisive issue. It's a little annoying, but it's such an easy thing to do to help protect yourself and others.

 

[Terry Yake]

I really don't understand how wearing masks became such a divisive issue. It's a little annoying, but it's such an easy thing to do to help protect yourself and others.

because people on the right turned it into one by claiming masks infringe on their constitutional rights and make them sheep of the liberal media, among other bullshit

 

[AngelDuck]

because people on the right turned it into one by claiming masks infringe on their constitutional rights and make them sheep of the liberal media, among other bullshit

Oh here we go making everything about politics again.

This world is unreal right now how nothing can be just what it is. There always has to be a political angle. f***ing disgusting

 

[Terry Yake]

Oh here we go making everything about politics again.

This world is unreal right now how nothing can be just what it is. There always has to be a political angle. f***ing disgusting

he asked why masks have become a decisive issue and that was my response

are you saying i'm wrong? it shouldn't be a political issue at all. look at countries that have successfully flattened their curve like SK and Japan. the people there have no problem wearing masks. here, it's become a political issue because of people likening it to oppression

 

[Static]

Oh here we go making everything about politics again.

This world is unreal right now how nothing can be just what it is. There always has to be a political angle. f***ing disgusting

Unfortunately there has been a pretty clear throughline, especially since the president has been a leading non-mask wearer.

 

[JonathnTaylorTavares]

because people on the right turned it into one by claiming masks infringe on their constitutional rights and make them sheep of the liberal media, among other bullshit

EDIT: attempted to join the mask conversation. Decided, not worth it. Let’s go Ducks!

 

[AngelDuck]

Unfortunately there has been a pretty clear throughline, especially since the president has been a leading non-mask wearer.

Delete

 

[Static]

The mask debate just doesn't make much sense to me because the upside/downside logic is so incredibly skewed.

If people who are against masks are right, then all we have lost is time with a slight inconvenience and discomfort. If they are wrong, then it has potentially cost people terrible illness or even death. How is that comparable? It comes off as petty and selfish.

The argument that people don't want to be told what to do holds water if what is being asked, not even mandated, but asked, has severe consequences. I understand why people would be upset if they are told they can't work because that can have some real consequences. But wearing a mask? Come on.

It would be great if we could tell those people, go ahead and don't wear a mask and whatever consequence befalls you is on you, and that is perfectly fine. That is generally how healthcare works, we give you the information and you do with it what you will. But, if your decisions directly affect other people? That is completely different. Think outside of yourselves.

 

[GreatBear]

I have heard very few “people on the right” if any in the real world complain about wearing a mask when they go to Trader Joe’s. Being unemployed and locked inside the house for three months when the government can’t get their statistics or facts straight is what people have a problem with. I don’t think you can blame people for being skeptical when politicians and media start telling them how to live their lives

I would suggest that if you have heard of "very few people on the right" have complained about masks that you have not been paying much attention to what is happening in this country. Donald Trump refusing to wear a mask under any circumstances in public is a political statement from the right. Many of his supporters also refuse to wear masks in public. Regardless of your political position, you might want to take the advice of the governor of North Dakota and not make it a political issues. North Dakota governor on brink of tears as he decries ‘mask shaming’

Fortunately a good number of businesses have posted signs requiring masks inside the business. Every grocery store that I know has that requirement, which has to do with protecting its employees and customers from COVID-19 infections. It is difficult to find recent articles on the number of grocery workers that have died from COVID-19. The most recent that I have found is from May 24, indicating over 100 such deaths. https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...rocery-workers-coronavirus-risks/?arc404=true

No offense, but I will defer to my doc's expertise. Her credentials are very impressive and her opinion that a vaccine taken 4-6 years to properly vet for all pre-existing conditions makes sense to me.

It sounds like your doctor is taking a very conservative medical approach to vaccines. Of course, if you get sick and/or die because a vaccine is available that you did not take because of her opinion then the impact is on you, not her. That is one of the problems with doctors. If they make an error you are the one who suffers, not them.

 

[JonathnTaylorTavares]

I would suggest that if you have heard of "very few people on the right" have complained about masks that you have not been paying much attention to what is happening in this country. Donald Trump refusing to wear a mask under any circumstances in public is a political statement from the right. Many of his supporters also refuse to wear masks in public. Regardless of your political position, you might want to take the advice of the governor of North Dakota and not make it a political issues. North Dakota governor on brink of tears as he decries ‘mask shaming’

Fortunately a good number of businesses have posted signs requiring masks inside the business. Every grocery store that I know has that requirement, which has to do with protecting its employees and customers from COVID-19 infections. It is difficult to find recent articles on the number of grocery workers that have died from COVID-19. The most recent that I have found is from May 24, indicating over 100 such deaths. https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...rocery-workers-coronavirus-risks/?arc404=true

I will agree that people protesting wearing a mask during this time is petty and stupid. I honestly don’t see very much of it. I see protests about being able to return to work, which is a bigger and very debatable issue. So for the sake of this particular discussion, i am on the side of pro-mask.

 

[ADHB]

The mask thing is a different situation than any other medically-related issue. Wearing a mask is to protect others, not to protect yourself. (It probably doesn't actually protect you at all.)

 

[Deuce22]

I would suggest that if you have heard of "very few people on the right" have complained about masks that you have not been paying much attention to what is happening in this country. Donald Trump refusing to wear a mask under any circumstances in public is a political statement from the right. Many of his supporters also refuse to wear masks in public. Regardless of your political position, you might want to take the advice of the governor of North Dakota and not make it a political issues. North Dakota governor on brink of tears as he decries ‘mask shaming’

Fortunately a good number of businesses have posted signs requiring masks inside the business. Every grocery store that I know has that requirement, which has to do with protecting its employees and customers from COVID-19 infections. It is difficult to find recent articles on the number of grocery workers that have died from COVID-19. The most recent that I have found is from May 24, indicating over 100 such deaths. https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...rocery-workers-coronavirus-risks/?arc404=true


It sounds like your doctor is taking a very conservative medical approach to vaccines. Of course, if you get sick and/or die because a vaccine is available that you did not take because of her opinion then the impact is on you, not her. That is one of the problems with doctors. If they make an error you are the one who suffers, not them.

No doubt. When I asked her to follow up, her answer was that in her opinion I was more at risk of dying from the vaccine than from COVID.

 

[Terry Yake]

No doubt. When I asked her to follow up, her answer was that in her opinion I was more at risk of dying from the vaccine than from COVID.

that's quite an interesting statement for a doctor to make

would love to know the logic behind that claim

 

[Deuce22]

that's quite an interesting statement for a doctor to make

would love to know the logic behind that claim

She felt that the vaccine would be rushed out to take advantage of the situation financially and wouldn't be properly vetted and tested. Who knows?

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Nice censorship going on in this thread. Deleted my post for claiming it has politics when 99% of the posts in this thread contain the same thing.
Admins/Mods not doing their job properly. They should resign.

 

[KyleJRM]

I am extremely and aggressively pro-vaccine in general. I have absolutely no time for anti-vaxxers.

But I'm gonna give one helluva a side-eye to a vaccine that went from first synthesis to mass production in 6-9 months, or whatever it ends up being. The reason vaccines are safe and effective is because we spent more than a century of trial and error building up the systems we use to test them, and that system is being bypassed.

It's important for society that we have a working vaccine as quickly as possible. We're rolling the dice that we can get away with shorting the safety process, and we probably can get away with it, but I don't mind letting other people go first if they don't mind going first.

 

[Dryish]

I am extremely and aggressively pro-vaccine in general. I have absolutely no time for anti-vaxxers.

But I'm gonna give one helluva a side-eye to a vaccine that went from first synthesis to mass production in 6-9 months, or whatever it ends up being. The reason vaccines are safe and effective is because we spent more than a century of trial and error building up the systems we use to test them, and that system is being bypassed.

It's important for society that we have a working vaccine as quickly as possible. We're rolling the dice that we can get away with shorting the safety process, and we probably can get away with it, but I don't mind letting other people go first if they don't mind going first.

Yeah, quite frankly same here. Even after seeing how badly my sister got wrecked (she still hasn't recovered and it's been, what, 12 weeks now? Thinking she might have developed CFS as a result...), I am definitely going to wait around a little bit to see if we start hearing weird side effects popping up. It just seems prudent.