Coronavirus/NHL Suspension Talk

[Trojans86]

We flattened the curve, but that doesn't mean the Kung Flu got defeated. We're still about 6 - 12 months until we find a vaccine. The point of the lockdown was to prevent the overcapacity of hospital beds and ventilators. The most prone are the elderly, but the young are far more resilient. Being outside in the sun is a good event because the sun's rays does kill viruses. We should still practice social distancing, wearing masks, and hygiene. (Well, I wear a mask because I just don't trust others.) I guess baseball day games would be a good event to go to, but that heat will make it miserable! (So make sure you know which side gets the shade and which side will bake you.)

In CA, LA got hit the hardest in cases and deaths. But if you live in other counties, it isn't bad. Yet, it's LA that dictates what we do in the whole state.

I'm more worried about the elderly. Right now, we do have ample hospital rooms and ventilators. We should open up, but in strategic places. Since all CA NHL teams were kicked out of the playoffs, that's a good thing for us. LOL But we should have technology to detect one's heat signature for large venues. Still, the youth can still carry the virus without showing any symptoms. Or have portable/handheld UV light rays that kill viruses.

As for the protests, I just remember when there was a protest in Spain at the beginning of the pandemic. Then the cases skyrocketed after the protest in Spain. But the whole wearing a mask thing wasn't enforced either. ::: shrugs ::: just gonna see what happens in the next couple of weeks with Kung Flu cases and where they're at.

Vaccines dont build herd immunity the way you are thinking for ultra contagious and constantly evolving viruses like this or the flu. Takes too long to make. Not to mention it would need to be an RNA vaccine which had never been done safely and there are real health risks with vaccines that are coming too light. Turns out metal is very bad for the brain. There is a ton of corruption around this when you can create a multi billion dollar product over night.

 

[GreatBear]

I'll bite on this one. First of all, we know and have known that we were never going to be able to contain the spread, just delay it. The only reason for the quarantine was to slow the spread so hospitals had capacity. Since that isnt an issue, very few of those deaths are preventable. We have data on areas now that have opened up and their hospitals are not overly run. So opening up isnt creating many, if any additional deaths. The quarantine is and will cause deaths related to substance abuse, suicides, etc. A typically bad seasonal virus kills 40k-150k so this isnt some massive anomaly. So if we know a quarantine only delays the spread and doesnt really prevent deaths, i would say we should only consider a quarantine when death rates are over 2% (of everyone that has it, not just those in the hospital). Right now we are closer to 0.3% and that is going down by the day.

The numbers are also skewed because of how we treated it. Ever notice how the vast vast majority of people dying are on Medicare and Medicaid? That's because those public hospitals have massive financial incentive to label cases covid and put intubate someone on a vent. When on a vent you are on paralytic with 8-9 different drugs constantly running through your veins, including fentanyl. A healthy person cannot survive on a vent for very long. You can go braindead. This is why you are seeing massive clusters of deaths at certain public hospitals that are heavily funded by Medicare and Medicaid.

Dr.s have learned how to better handle this and death rates are already much much lower now that we arent putting people on his pressure setting vents.

From today's Washington Post:

As the number of new coronavirus cases continues to increase worldwide, and more than a dozen states and Puerto Rico are recording their highest averages of new cases since the pandemic began, hospitalizations in at least nine states have been on the rise since Memorial Day.

In Texas, North and South Carolina, California, Oregon, Arkansas, Mississippi, Utah and Arizona, there are an increasing number of patients under supervised care since the holiday weekend because of coronavirus infections. The spikes generally began in the past couple weeks and in most states are trending higher.
Data from states that are reporting some of their highest seven-day averages of new cases is disproving the notion that the country is seeing such a spike in cases solely because of the continued increase in testing, according to data tracked by The Washington Post.

...

Arizona has also been struggling with its bed capacity. On Friday, Banner Health, one of the largest health-care systems in the country, confirmed that ICUs in Arizona were nearing capacity. Roughly 50 percent of all those hospitalized are in Banner Health facilities. As of Monday, 76 percent of all ICU beds in Arizona were in use, according to data from the state health department.


You can compare flu deaths and COVID-19 deaths, but you must make an adjustment. Usually less than 50% of reported flu deaths are from people who have been hospitalized. Almost all COVID-19 deaths that have been counted to date (over 112,000 now in this country according to John Hopkins) have been from patients who have been hospitalized. That is one reason why the numbers are considered low in the United States, since an unknown but probably significant number of people who died at home or at nursing facilities have not been counted in the 112,000 number.

150,000 deaths from the flu in the U.S is considered an extreme flu season. The usual death numbers are around 40 - 50,000. But that includes the cases estimated from people who did not die in a hospital. If you look at the hospitalized deaths the number is usually closer to 20,000. If you adjust the number of COVID-19 deaths to twice the number in hospitals (which I do not recommend doing since the numbers are so unclear) you would have 224,000 deaths. And the numbers keep increasing.

You see the inability to properly account for total number of deaths in other countries as well, particularly under developed countries. No one knows how many people have really died from this disease in those countries since there was inadequate testing and medical facilities. You can look at the total number of deaths this year versus last year and take a guess, but it is only a just that, a guess. Those numbers would be multiples of "official" deaths.

As for age and the coronavirus, look at Orange County. COVID-19 Case Counts and Testing Figures | Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) The largest percentage of COVID-19 cases is in the 25 - 34 year old age bracket, with the second highest percentage in the 45 - 54 year old age bracket. The most deadly illnesses are in the 85+ age bracket. But to argue that we should minimize those is a rather inhumane argument. Just because you are 85 and older, or 65 and older, does not mean that your life has no value.

According to a very recent British study the best way to minimize the spread of the illness is for people to wear masks. According to the study that is an even better control than shutting down the economy. This just came out so it will require study. However, given the number of people who don't wear masks because they don't want to, that is simply not going to be an appropriate solution in the United States.

 

[Trojans86]

From today's Washington Post:

As the number of new coronavirus cases continues to increase worldwide, and more than a dozen states and Puerto Rico are recording their highest averages of new cases since the pandemic began, hospitalizations in at least nine states have been on the rise since Memorial Day.

In Texas, North and South Carolina, California, Oregon, Arkansas, Mississippi, Utah and Arizona, there are an increasing number of patients under supervised care since the holiday weekend because of coronavirus infections. The spikes generally began in the past couple weeks and in most states are trending higher.
Data from states that are reporting some of their highest seven-day averages of new cases is disproving the notion that the country is seeing such a spike in cases solely because of the continued increase in testing, according to data tracked by The Washington Post.

...

Arizona has also been struggling with its bed capacity. On Friday, Banner Health, one of the largest health-care systems in the country, confirmed that ICUs in Arizona were nearing capacity. Roughly 50 percent of all those hospitalized are in Banner Health facilities. As of Monday, 76 percent of all ICU beds in Arizona were in use, according to data from the state health department.


You can compare flu deaths and COVID-19 deaths, but you must make an adjustment. Usually less than 50% of reported flu deaths are from people who have been hospitalized. Almost all COVID-19 deaths that have been counted to date (over 112,000 now in this country according to John Hopkins) have been from patients who have been hospitalized. That is one reason why the numbers are considered low in the United States, since an unknown but probably significant number of people who died at home or at nursing facilities have not been counted in the 112,000 number.

150,000 deaths from the flu in the U.S is considered an extreme flu season. The usual death numbers are around 40 - 50,000. But that includes the cases estimated from people who did not die in a hospital. If you look at the hospitalized deaths the number is usually closer to 20,000. If you adjust the number of COVID-19 deaths to twice the number in hospitals (which I do not recommend doing since the numbers are so unclear) you would have 224,000 deaths. And the numbers keep increasing.

You see the inability to properly account for total number of deaths in other countries as well, particularly under developed countries. No one knows how many people have really died from this disease in those countries since there was inadequate testing and medical facilities. You can look at the total number of deaths this year versus last year and take a guess, but it is only a just that, a guess. Those numbers would be multiples of "official" deaths.

As for age and the coronavirus, look at Orange County. COVID-19 Case Counts and Testing Figures | Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) The largest percentage of COVID-19 cases is in the 25 - 34 year old age bracket, with the second highest percentage in the 45 - 54 year old age bracket. The most deadly illnesses are in the 85+ age bracket. But to argue that we should minimize those is a rather inhumane argument. Just because you are 85 and older, or 65 and older, does not mean that your life has no value.

According to a very recent British study the best way to minimize the spread of the illness is for people to wear masks. According to the study that is an even better control than shutting down the economy. This just came out so it will require study. However, given the number of people who don't wear masks because they don't want to, that is simply not going to be an appropriate solution in the United States.

Read that and try to listen to the narrative. They are trying to push an agenda. When they say a states numbers are increasing, that is obvious, they are always increasing. When they say a states numbers are growing, if the state had close to zero cases and they get 10 deaths, that is a massive growth rate. You have to stop reading from news outlets that are pushing an agenda. Talk to or read from people that work in the industry without a slant.

The cdc has clearly stated that they are not using traditional ways of recording virus deaths. If someone dies from a variety of illnesses but has covid in their system it is classified as a covid death. That is not how flight deaths are recorded and the cdc has stated they are very aggressively recording deaths, so the numbers are highly inflated because of that. The standard used to be that the illness had to cause the death, now the standard for covid and only covid is that you have to have it in your system when you die, regardless of being the cause.

Once again, another source of disingenuous journalism is the data on Orange County. We have like no deaths and no cases. I live here and no multiple doctors and nurses and there is nothing going on. No deaths in the last week in Orange County, yet they try to write an article about how younger people are getting it.

The media is so toxic right now. Dont listen to Fox, CNN, Washington Post, NY Times, etc. They all have a narrative and once you start digging into the truth you see how they constantly skew a narrative with disingenuous journalism. We have a rare opportunity I history where doctors have a voice, you have access to business leaders and local politicians who are brave enough to speak up, nurses, etc. Keep an open mind and do some research outside of mainstream media.

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

There are at least 111,000 people in this country (John Hopkins figures as of this morning) who have died from COVID-19 since late February, and who might disagree with the concept of being hoodwinked. But of course they can't disagree because they are dead.

So here is the question I always ask people who want to open everything up the way it was, how many deaths are you willing to accept in this country each year from COVID-19 to operate the country the way it was in January, 2020? Many people sputter at this concept, but it is a valid policy consideration as to what can/should be opened up.

To feel sympathetic towards that amount of death I have to believe that’sa real number such I don’t. Doctors are coming out saying they were forced To label cause of death covid when it wasn’t the case. Since covid was labeled a national emergency every death labeled covid granted the hospital 34,000$ due to the grant through the gov. Money talks. The CDC came out Yesterday saying the mortality rate is .022. Not enough to shut down the country considering last year 80,000 died from the normal flu and no one batted an eye. Hospitals were laying off people in mass because nobody was coming through. we got hoodwinked

 

[Static]

To feel sympathetic towards that amount of death I have to believe that’sa real number such I don’t. Doctors are coming out saying they were forced To label cause of death covid when it wasn’t the case. Since covid was labeled a national emergency every death labeled covid granted the hospital 34,000$ due to the grant through the gov. Money talks. The CDC came out Yesterday saying the mortality rate is .022. Not enough to shut down the country considering last year 80,000 died from the normal flu and no one batted an eye. Hospitals were laying off people in mass because nobody was coming through. we got hoodwinked

What are your thoughts on the holocaust?

 

[Terry Yake]

people are still comparing this to the flu? hahahahahahahahaha

you morons do realize that the reason hospitals weren't overrun was because of the partial lockdowns right?

so many lost causes

 

[GreatBear]

What are your thoughts on the holocaust?

You mean that event where almost every single family member that I had in Europe were killed by the Germans? Not a good thing, for either my relatives or anyone else killed in the program, in my opinion.

Once again, another source of disingenuous journalism is the data on Orange County. We have like no deaths and no cases. I live here and no multiple doctors and nurses and there is nothing going on. No deaths in the last week in Orange County, yet they try to write an article about how younger people are getting it.

As to comments like this, it is hard to respond. Orange County is as conservative a large county as you can find in California, and yet the Orange County Health Department is not be believed with its COVID-19 deaths? It is not like some crazed liberals are running around making up these statistics just because they hate President Trump. These are the numbers from a rather bland and plodding county administrative agency. The Health Department reported 8 deaths for June 9 and 13 deaths for June 10. Unless you think that the Department is making these numbers up then they are the numbers that we all have to work with in Orange County. Remember the comment from John Adams, "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

 

[Anaheim4ever]

What about the Aztec/Maya/Purepecha Genocide ? The Spanish killed millions of my ancestors with massacres and with using smallpox as a weapon as well as cultural genocide and repression.
Mexico Asked Spain to Apologize on 500th Anniversary of Colonial Invasion. Spain: 'No'
In 2019 Mexico asked Spain to apologize, Spain declined. In 2020 Spain was one of the hardest hit european countries from the Corona Virus.

Unlike the european genocide, the descendents of the Aztec/Maya genocide don't have white privilege in America and they don't make up a big part of the top 1% income earners in america.

 

[Terry Yake]

What about the Aztec/Maya/Purepecha Genocide ? The Spanish killed millions of my ancestors with massacres and with using smallpox as a weapon as well as cultural genocide and repression.
Mexico Asked Spain to Apologize on 500th Anniversary of Colonial Invasion. Spain: 'No'
In 2019 Mexico asked Spain to apologize, Spain declined. In 2020 Spain was one of the hardest hit european countries from the Corona Virus.

yeah, mexico unleashed covid on spain because they refused to apoligize

 

[Anaheim4ever]

yeah, mexico unleashed covid on spain because they refused to apoligize

More like Spain had bad karma. Whats ur point other than adding nothing ?

 

[Terry Yake]

More like Spain had bad karma. Whats ur point other than adding nothing ?

sounded like you were peddling some stupid conspiracy

 

[mightyquack]

To feel sympathetic towards that amount of death I have to believe that’sa real number such I don’t. Doctors are coming out saying they were forced To label cause of death covid when it wasn’t the case. Since covid was labeled a national emergency every death labeled covid granted the hospital 34,000$ due to the grant through the gov. Money talks. The CDC came out Yesterday saying the mortality rate is .022. Not enough to shut down the country considering last year 80,000 died from the normal flu and no one batted an eye. Hospitals were laying off people in mass because nobody was coming through. we got hoodwinked

You're sounding dumber by the post, and that's really saying something. Stop being a massive f***ing turd and downplaying something that has killed nearly half a million people (and likely far more then that given lack of reporting in certain major countries), and may lead to long term health consequences for many people who survived.

 

[Son of Gib]

You're sounding dumber by the post, and that's really saying something. Stop being a massive f***ing turd and downplaying something that has killed nearly half a million people (and likely far more then that given lack of reporting in certain major countries), and may lead to long term health consequences for many people who survived.

Maybe you should ask yourself why your response to a rational argument is to get super emotional and call people "f***ing turds". If the facts he's stating are wrong, please explain why instead of dumbing down the conversation.

 

[mightyquack]

Maybe you should ask yourself why your response to a rational argument is to get super emotional and call people "f***ing turds". If the facts he's stating are wrong, please explain why instead of dumbing down the conversation.

Don't worry, the conversation is already plenty dumb with comparing it to the flu. The "to feel sympathetic to that amount of death I have to believe that's a real number" is not only one of the dumbest things I've read on this site, but probably one of the most callous too.

Covid has already killed far more people in America then the estimates from the 18-19 flu season (110k v an estimated 34k), I say estimates as the CDC only deals in estimates not actual raw numbers. And that's not taking into account America's 18-19 flu season lasted longer then the length of time from America's first Covid death (mid Feb I believe) until now. I certainly haven't found anywhere credible that states with adequate sources that 80k died in America from influenza last year. Secondly, the WHO estimates influenza kills between 290k - 650k per year globally (again estimates). Covid deaths will likely to be far, far higher then any sort of flu estimate. We're at 420k coivd deaths worldwide in barely 6 months, and it's highly likely that is extremely underreported given most poor countries are unable to do mass testing and thus confirm covid deaths - but if you want to believe countries like Benin (4 deaths), Guinea (23 deaths), Zimbawe (4 deaths), Rwanda (2 deaths) on are accurate figures, then go right ahead. That's not to mention countries that are clearly underreporting (unless there is some form of divine intervention there) such as Russia claiming only 6.8k deaths from 500k cases, or India claiming 8k deaths from 287k cases....again go right ahead. And as far as I am aware, there has been no confirmation of a 0.022% mortality rate from the CDC - at least checking many news sites, google, twitter etc did not turn up anything and the only sort of news was last week when they gave a range of possible mortality rates (and none of those were 0.022). In terms of hospital staff layoffs, I have no idea the point that is trying to be made - is the claim that they are laying people off because they hired more people expecting to be flooded with covid cases? Well that would just be false, everything I have found stated that cuts are being made due to huge drops in revenue (due to loss of elective surgeries etc).

Also if you think there is some big conspiracy that countries are willfully tanking their economy over something that is 'no worse then the flu', then you're really high up there on the conspiracy wacko scale. So once again, anyone who compares this to the flu and downplays coivd is not only a f***ing turd, but is also a f***ing idiot who is being willfilly ignorant to the situation.

 

[JabbaJabba]

More like Spain had bad karma. Whats ur point other than adding nothing ?

So Spanish people who had nothing to do with what happened centuries ago get to suffer now?

 

[Anaheim4ever]

From today's Washington Post:

As the number of new coronavirus cases continues to increase worldwide, and more than a dozen states and Puerto Rico are recording their highest averages of new cases since the pandemic began, hospitalizations in at least nine states have been on the rise since Memorial Day.

In Texas, North and South Carolina, California, Oregon, Arkansas, Mississippi, Utah and Arizona, there are an increasing number of patients under supervised care since the holiday weekend because of coronavirus infections. The spikes generally began in the past couple weeks and in most states are trending higher.
Data from states that are reporting some of their highest seven-day averages of new cases is disproving the notion that the country is seeing such a spike in cases solely because of the continued increase in testing, according to data tracked by The Washington Post.

...

Arizona has also been struggling with its bed capacity. On Friday, Banner Health, one of the largest health-care systems in the country, confirmed that ICUs in Arizona were nearing capacity. Roughly 50 percent of all those hospitalized are in Banner Health facilities. As of Monday, 76 percent of all ICU beds in Arizona were in use, according to data from the state health department.


You can compare flu deaths and COVID-19 deaths, but you must make an adjustment. Usually less than 50% of reported flu deaths are from people who have been hospitalized. Almost all COVID-19 deaths that have been counted to date (over 112,000 now in this country according to John Hopkins) have been from patients who have been hospitalized. That is one reason why the numbers are considered low in the United States, since an unknown but probably significant number of people who died at home or at nursing facilities have not been counted in the 112,000 number.

150,000 deaths from the flu in the U.S is considered an extreme flu season. The usual death numbers are around 40 - 50,000. But that includes the cases estimated from people who did not die in a hospital. If you look at the hospitalized deaths the number is usually closer to 20,000. If you adjust the number of COVID-19 deaths to twice the number in hospitals (which I do not recommend doing since the numbers are so unclear) you would have 224,000 deaths. And the numbers keep increasing.

You see the inability to properly account for total number of deaths in other countries as well, particularly under developed countries. No one knows how many people have really died from this disease in those countries since there was inadequate testing and medical facilities. You can look at the total number of deaths this year versus last year and take a guess, but it is only a just that, a guess. Those numbers would be multiples of "official" deaths.

As for age and the coronavirus, look at Orange County. COVID-19 Case Counts and Testing Figures | Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) The largest percentage of COVID-19 cases is in the 25 - 34 year old age bracket, with the second highest percentage in the 45 - 54 year old age bracket. The most deadly illnesses are in the 85+ age bracket. But to argue that we should minimize those is a rather inhumane argument. Just because you are 85 and older, or 65 and older, does not mean that your life has no value.

According to a very recent British study the best way to minimize the spread of the illness is for people to wear masks. According to the study that is an even better control than shutting down the economy. This just came out so it will require study. However, given the number of people who don't wear masks because they don't want to, that is simply not going to be an appropriate solution in the United States.

Orange County had 13 deaths yesterday from the corona virus, possibly related to the lockdown protests last month.
Of the people under 45 who have been dying from corona virus, nearly all of them are obese and it doesn't seem to matter if they don't have diabetes or hypertension, their blood oxygen level is already very low due to their weight and the corona virus is gonna plummet that to dangerously low levels that lead to death.
I've lost maybe 50 pounds since the lockdown started, not dieting but with exercise equipment indoors.

Corona virus effects the circulation in blood vessels and people have also been dying from strokes caused by blood clots they got from corona virus, people who are getting regular exercise have better circulation. People in their early 30s have been getting strokes related to corona virus.

Countries with a very low body mass index (BMI) among its population have the done the best with handling the virus such as Japan and South Korea.
Even though China's numbers are fake, their relatively low BMI among its population could suggest their death rate could potentially be lower than the USA despite it being the chain smoker capital of the world just like how germany has a higher smoker per capita rate than France and Italy but massively lower death rate from corona virus.

 

[Trojans86]

You mean that event where almost every single family member that I had in Europe were killed by the Germans? Not a good thing, for either my relatives or anyone else killed in the program, in my opinion.



As to comments like this, it is hard to respond. Orange County is as conservative a large county as you can find in California, and yet the Orange County Health Department is not be believed with its COVID-19 deaths? It is not like some crazed liberals are running around making up these statistics just because they hate President Trump. These are the numbers from a rather bland and plodding county administrative agency. The Health Department reported 8 deaths for June 9 and 13 deaths for June 10. Unless you think that the Department is making these numbers up then they are the numbers that we all have to work with in Orange County. Remember the comment from John Adams, "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

8 deaths for a population of 3million is nothing. If that is our level of concern then every fast food place should be shut down, people shouldnt drive cars, alcohol should be illegal, etc.

 

[Terry Yake]

8 deaths for a population of 3million is nothing. If that is our level of concern then every fast food place should be shut down, people shouldnt drive cars, alcohol should be illegal, etc.

car accidents are not contagius

if we hadn't gone into partial lockdown when we did, there would have been far more deaths than 198 so far

 

[Leonardo87]

Looks like they are re-opening Disneyland on July 17. Disney World in Florida is re-opening on July 11th. As much as it is nice to hear things re-open especially places that attract a lot of people is it too soon?

 

[Terry Yake]

Looks like they are re-opening Disneyland on July 17. Disney World in Florida is re-opening on July 11th. As much as it is nice to hear things re-open especially places that attract a lot of people is it too soon?

well here in OC, our hospitalization and ICU numbers are higher than ever and on the rise. we also don't have nearly enough testing and with the protests now behind us, we should see a big spike in cases in the next week

so yeah, i'd say it's far too soon

 

[Leonardo87]

well here in OC, our hospitalization and ICU numbers are higher than ever and on the rise. we also don't have nearly enough testing and with the protests now behind us, we should see a big spike in cases in the next week

so yeah, i'd say it's far too soon

Yeah, seems like it is too soon. As per NY , numbers have gone down, lowest numbers since the initial outbreak but the protests are not going to help those numbers and I expect a spike. It has become very political now sadly. Imo.

 

[Terry Yake]

Yeah, seems like it is too soon. As per NY , numbers have gone down, lowest numbers since the initial outbreak but the protests are not going to help those numbers and I expect a spike. It has become very political now sadly. Imo.

numbers in NY have gone down but pretty much the opposite everywhere else

 

[Leonardo87]

numbers in NY have gone down but pretty much the opposite everywhere else

Yeah our lovely governor has been patting himself on the back with that comparing the numbers.

Anyway stay safe over there. Hopefully you guys start going down soon also.

 

[BiolaRunner]

Looks like they are re-opening Disneyland on July 17. Disney World in Florida is re-opening on July 11th. As much as it is nice to hear things re-open especially places that attract a lot of people is it too soon?

They will be limiting how many people are allowed into the park. You will need a reservation. They won't be selling any tickets or APs

 

[Leonardo87]

They will be limiting how many people are allowed into the park. You will need a reservation. They won't be selling any tickets or APs

Universal Orlando has been open for about 2 weeks now, and the park is dead, even if they are limiting to like 30% capacity. I think a lot of people are going to wait, even if they have annual passes.