Coronavirus and the Washington Capitals

[Raikkonen]

I wonder what the plan is for August?

Easy. This is 2020, so Aliens are to land in August obviously.

 

[txpd]

Looks more and more like the I WANT MY FREEDOMS people have screwed us.

 

[Raikkonen]

I think freedomspeople are not the reason for all this. Bet its still about the money.

 

[g00n]

I think freedomspeople are not the reason for all this. Bet its still about the money.

Which is what's behind that movement....business interests manipulating people into thinking ignoring the medical precautions are unpatriotic, so the economy can carry on and money keeps funneling to the top.

 

[Raikkonen]

Which is what's behind that movement....business interests manipulating people into thinking ignoring the medical precautions are unpatriotic, so the economy can carry on and money keeps funneling to the top.

I dont understand that. Patriotic thing would be to sit home? Which will damage the economy?

Too many games. You need someone to make purpose prevalent over politics. However, maybe capitalism is not about the purpose for people.

 

[twabby]

I dont understand that. Patriotic thing would be to sit home? Which will damage the economy?

Too many games. You need someone to make purpose prevalent over politics. However, maybe capitalism is not about the purpose for people.

Capitalism is the root of all of these problems, you're right. The economy doesn't need to reopen if the government were willing to pay people to stay home and limit the effects of the pandemic. There's plenty of money to just pay people to stay home! The US just spent a few trillion dollars with more bailouts to big businesses instead of to the people directly. In addition we could just print the money and tax the f*** out of rich people like we used to do but for some reason neither party is willing to do that (it's capitalism). Rich people have decided that a few hundred thousand lives are worth it to continue to have 9 zeroes after their net worth.

 

[txpd]

I think freedomspeople are not the reason for all this. Bet its still about the money.

Small money. Big money. Thinking someone is after your money or wants to keep you from earning it. Its about money to that degree. The masses against doing anything defensive is about the masses not thinking they really need to.

 

[txpd]

Capitalism is the root of all of these problems, you're right.

No. Many capitalist countries have handled this fine. Its the grievance politics of this era in the United States that is responsible for this. Its the everyone is out to get me syndrome

 

[g00n]

No. Many capitalist countries have handled this fine. Its the grievance politics of this era in the United States that is responsible for this. Its the everyone is out to get me syndrome

Yup. Every system is prone to abuse and corruption. Human nature dictates it.

The problems are long-standing and deep-seated, and can't be removed by simply changing the entire system. The same crooks (and some new ones) will simply step up and take over THAT game, too.

Wealth and power can do good or harm. Abuse and corruption are the enemies. Always.

And we currently have those in abundance, right from the top.

 

[txpd]

Yup. Every system is prone to abuse and corruption. Human nature dictates it.

The problems are long-standing and deep-seated, and can't be removed by simply changing the entire system. The same crooks (and some new ones) will simply step up and take over THAT game, too.

Wealth and power can do good or harm. Abuse and corruption are the enemies. Always.

And we currently have those in abundance, right from the top.

Yes. Its immigrants or rich people or gays or trade or....Its somebody to take the blame for how something is missing in my life. The kind of thing you don't see in the Caps locker room. Taking responsibility and fighting thru it is the way to go.

 

[kicksavedave]

Capitalism is the root of all of these problems, you're right. The economy doesn't need to reopen if the government were willing to pay people to stay home and limit the effects of the pandemic. There's plenty of money to just pay people to stay home! The US just spent a few trillion dollars with more bailouts to big businesses instead of to the people directly. In addition we could just print the money and tax the f*** out of rich people like we used to do but for some reason neither party is willing to do that (it's capitalism). Rich people have decided that a few hundred thousand lives are worth it to continue to have 9 zeroes after their net worth.

Not sure why you think there is "plenty of money to just pay people to stay home". The Fed Govt is $26T (TRILLION) in debt and some how some day some one (our kids) will have to pay that back. WE juts added over $3T to that debt and thats just the beginning. The annual Federal budget which was already way in the deficit, is now going to explode with well over $1T in deficit spending this year alone (not counting the stimulus/relief). Next year it may be a $2T deficit not including stimulus/relief). Its not endless. EVentually other countries will stop lending us money for being stupid.

I'm not opposed to safety net protections, but they are a poor substitute for properly managing the threat in the first place. Many other countries took the threat seriously and managed to continue working through it, using appropriate precautions. But the US half assed the response, which lead to draconian shutdowns, which were then half assed themselves, and now in late June we are back at March 15th. So not only was the economy damaged, it didn't stop the spread because the "I want my freedoms" people refused to abide by the shutdown needed to reopen properly.

So ultimately we are going to have to pour more money into keeping people going, and some day that money will run dry. We'd have saved a TON by doing this properly the first time.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Sounds like Vegas is out of the running for a host city. Both are going to be in Canada.

Let’s not pretend 3 weeks after mass protests in the US is in a outbreak and we are not allowed to fly to the EU anymore.

 

[usiel]

Sounds like Vegas is out of the running for a host city. Both are going to be in Canada.

Let’s not pretend 3 weeks after mass protests in the US is in a outbreak and we are not allowed to fly to the EU anymore.

Makes sense. Vegas sounds to a hotspot waiting to happen anyways. Wish we could add a Team North America hah.

 

[Raikkonen]

Idk if that source is creditable or not. But they are linking CDC's report in the article.

CDC Antibody Studies Confirm Huge Gap Between COVID-19 Infections and Known Cases

Based on the CDC's "best estimates" of the death rate among all Americans who develop COVID-19 symptoms (whether or not they are tested for the virus) and the percentage of infections that are asymptomatic, the nationwide IFR is something like 0.26 percent

 

[g00n]

Idk if that source is creditable or not. But they are linking CDC's report in the article.

CDC Antibody Studies Confirm Huge Gap Between COVID-19 Infections and Known Cases

Based on the CDC's "best estimates" of the death rate among all Americans who develop COVID-19 symptoms (whether or not they are tested for the virus) and the percentage of infections that are asymptomatic, the nationwide IFR is something like 0.26 percent

tl;dr: the data sucks, still

Fact check: Confusion about CDC's COVID-19 death count

Uncertain counts
Experts acknowledge there has been widespread underreporting of COVID-19 deaths since the start of the pandemic, so any death tolls do not present the full picture.

Fact check:Is US coronavirus death toll inflated? Experts agree it's probably the opposite

The New York Times reported in April that although the extent of the problem is not clear, a lack of testing, varying requirements for testing, inconsistent protocols for reporting deaths at the local and state level and people dying before being tested means many COVID-19 deaths were never counted.

Fact check:Coronavirus's annual death toll can't be calculated, compared
NPR reported in May that this issue has not improved. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said in a Senate hearing that month the death count is “almost certainly" higher.
COVID-19 death counts have increased, not decreased

Despite incomplete death counts, archived versions of both of the CDC’s coronavirus death counts – provisional and confirmed and probable – have continued to increase since the virus started spreading. There have been no instances of either death count being significantly reduced, as claimed in the Facebook post.

Fact check:CDC's estimates COVID-19 death rate around 0.26%, doesn't confirm it

 

[Raikkonen]

So CDC is wrong while USA Today and some experts are right? Ok, maybe.

I cant claim I understand who is who in those.

 

[tenken00]

So CDC is wrong while USA Today and some experts are right? Ok, maybe.

I cant claim I understand who is who in those.

The problem with the CDC and other US government agencies in the Trump presidency is that everything is highly politicized now.. So it is hard to take certain things at face value from government agencies headed by Trump appointees.

Such as when the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA that handles US Government weather events) was forced to change their stance and say that Trump is correct and not horribly wrong with drawing a big black line using a big black marker on this hurricane map:

 

[g00n]

So CDC is wrong while USA Today and some experts are right? Ok, maybe.

I cant claim I understand who is who in those.

You quoted some random dude writing a blog on Reason which is a right-leaning libertarian essay clearinghouse. The analysis of the CDC isn't by USA Today, they're compiling the information.

And as was said above the data itself is a problem due to inconsistency. Your article was still based on speculation about unknowns (asymptomatics or unreported cases). Most believe those are HIGHER, not lower.

Which was the point of the article I posted.

 

[Raikkonen]

Doesnt add up to me. You say "most believe" and quote some "fact checking". As I said like 2 months ago the clearer picture will be available next year or smth. That's my understanding of the process.

I cant accept your "fact checking" as an argument against mines. These are all preliminary, speculations of some degree.

 

[usiel]

Just a reminder confirmation bias is a real thing. I know it is a knee jerk internet thing to never be wrong at anything but personally I relish that moment/realization where I find I'm wrong. That said I've working for one company doing technical software/data support for almost 19 years. I'm well aware high quality data methodology and crap data methodology be manipulated to show whatever the user wanted unless one looked at it fairly closely. The US is a mess with its unique federated structure with reporting and the federal government feeling free to not take the rains. Doesn't mean to not ignore any data once as data or lack that of still have some inherent value even it the sample size is utter crap. It is always balancing act with data methodology. Not even talking about the spatial analytics methodology.

 

[Raikkonen]

Just a reminder confirmation bias is a real thing. I know it is a knee jerk internet thing to never be wrong at anything but personally I relish that moment/realization where I find I'm wrong. That said I've working for one company doing technical software/data support for almost 19 years. I'm well aware high quality data methodology and crap data methodology be manipulated to show whatever the user wanted unless one looked at it fairly closely. The US is a mess with its unique federated structure with reporting and the federal government feeling free to not take the rains. Doesn't mean to not ignore any data once as data or lack that of still have some inherent value even it the sample size is utter crap. It is always balancing act with data methodology. Not even talking about the spatial analytics methodology.

But how an average person not an expert can decide who's right? Im trying to tell the "facts" now is a subjective thing at best.

 

[g00n]

But how an average person not an expert can decide who's right? Im trying to tell the "facts" now is a subjective thing at best.

Just because we don't have 100% of the information doesn't mean we don't already have enough to make some distinctions.

In this case, "who's right" are the people advocating mask wearing and other protective measures, and who don't diminish the virus or it's death toll/rate with cherrypicked stats or flat out denials of reality. Final statistical analysis may move the needle a few percentage points here and there and margins of error will always exist, but this whole "who knows what's right or wrong" thing is exactly how we got in this position because it allows people to do whatever's most convenient (or dangerous).

And I think you understand that very well.

 

[txpd]

Anyone that prioritizes opening the economy before controlling the virus is wrong. Its pretty simple. The economy cant recover with out consumer confidence and consumer confidence cant be won until the virus is controlled. Those did that are suffering the predicted consequences now. POTUS for his part only competes with that argument by ignoring it.

My view is simple. I listen to my doctor. My doctors are at Duke Medical Center and know what they are doing. They tell me to follow Fauci's guidelines and so I do.

 

[Raikkonen]

Never meant we shouldn't use mask or other means. Just this conversation started with me stating death rates are many times less than early numbers showed, and I was called dumb shortly after (for various statements probably, but anyway there is still no scientific evidence I was wrong on many accounts).

Personally me, Im sitting at home with my 8y child for 3+ months. Our business is on total pause. But Im calm because I think its not even the summit. Why worry?

Im just arguing for the sake of getting more clear picture, because I know here is a good place to have normal conversation about various topics.

 

[895]

Not gonna mention names but reading this thread has improved my esteem of certain posters whose hockey opinions I rarely agree with.