Coronavirus and the Washington Capitals Part 2

[txpd]

We do have a trend on this expertise thing here where there is a train of thought that says this is not an expert on hockey.

 

[txpd]

I am going to guess that there are numerous here that qualify as experts on one subject or another. I know that I do. On those subjects you dont believe me at your own peril.

 

[Calicaps]

I am going to guess that there are numerous here that qualify as experts on one subject or another. I know that I do. On those subjects you dont believe me at your own peril.

THIS.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I’d ask New Zealanders if they think they are overreacting. From my cursory research, it appears that they have been quite happy with their government’s response to the pandemic:

Ardern’s Covid lockdown finds favour as New Zealand watches Sydney’s Delta disaster



With regards to the price gouging conversation, I’ve already made my opinion known that the public should be in control of key products and services, such as food, healthcare, telecommunications, housing, etc. If what you are describing is not technically price gouging, then pass a law against whatever it is you are describing.

The party in charge also has the ability to shape the judiciary as they see fit, so fear of getting sued seems like another deflection when the real obstacle is having the will to actually create change. The unfortunate truth is that almost everyone in power is comfortable with the status quo, and is comfortable with hundreds of thousands of people dying to COVID-19 as long as the Number goes up.

You cannot compare an Island Nation (important part — Island) of 5m people to the USA.

New Zealand is the size of South Carolina. Could we shut down one state? Sure. If they were also and Island and had an immensely popular leader with like minded people?

then 100%.

 

[twabby]

Twabby, its simpler than this. Dr Fauci was a widely respected expert, until he advocated for things that some people found politically unpopular, then he became a pariah, faced death threats, from those people who didn't like his advice, and his status as a trusted "expert" became purely a partisan issue. Politics is what's driving this resistance more so than most all those other factors you mention.

Also, it wasn't capital that demanded reopening, it was labor... People who were laid off were the ones who stormed the capital in Michigan and hung Gretchen Whitmer in effigy. Its the blue collar workers that Ron Desantis is playing to by keeping FLA open and unmasked and refusing mandates. Restaurant, hospitality and retail workers in places that closed due to lockdowns were hurt the most by it and they rebelled against the lockdowns the most. Capital, got bailed out by the Fed largely, as is always the case.

Anthony Fauci was unknown to the large majority of the population until COVID-19. Few people trusted him (or distrusted him). To most, he is just a spokesperson for the federal government and as such his trustworthiness is exactly the same as the trustworthiness of the federal government. Unsurprisingly, yes he is now receiving death threats from many, in large part due to the lack of faith people have in our institutions of which Fauci is a prominent representative.

Capital absolutely demanded the reopening of our economy. Stocks were tanking and earnings were falling. Just because you don’t see oligarchs in the streets doesn’t mean they were happy with the economy being closed. Why would they need to be in the streets with the riffraff when they can simply do what they always do and lobby governmental representatives to get their way?

There were certainly many laborers who wanted to reopen the economy, but that was because they needed a paycheck to survive. I don’t think McDonalds employees were chomping at the bit to flip burgers, I don’t think construction workers were dying to get back out there to build roads. I think they wanted money so they could survive. Had these laborers been offered generous benefits during the lockdown that would have allowed them and their families to survive in comfort, I doubt most of them would have demanded the economy reopen.

Ron Desantis plays to his/Trump’s base by making these reckless and deadly decisions but again, why is the Republican base the way it is? It’s not because of Donald Trump. The causality is completely reversed, and indeed Donald Trump was only able to obtain power because he was able to tap into resentment and anger that was already widespread throughout the population.

Examining why this resentment and anger is present should be the goal so that we can change things and build a more just and harmonious society for all.

 

[HeyMattyB]

UP THA PUNX, SMASH THE STATE!

But, until that happens, GIVE ME THE SHOT.

 

[twabby]

You cannot compare an Island Nation (important part — Island) of 5m people to the USA.

New Zealand is the size of South Carolina. Could we shut down one state? Sure. If they were also and Island and had an immensely popular leader with like minded people?

then 100%.

So is your assertion that New Zealand’s strict measures to contain the virus are not a major factor in why their case and death numbers are so low?

As another example, China has also done a much better job than us. Even if you think China’s numbers are off by a factor of 100 and that our numbers are spot-on, China’s deaths per capita are still about 5 times lower than ours (source: COVID-19 deaths per capita by country | Statista ) , despite the fact that they share borders with many other countries (including hotspots like India and Russia) and the fact that their population is more than 3 times bigger than ours. The main difference, of course, is that China has continued with incredibly strict measures to contain the virus while we have not. The reasonable conclusion is that China and their leadership is just doing a better job containing coronavirus than the good old U S of A.

Geography is a convenient scapegoat to help make us feel better about our poor response to the pandemic.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Maybe we should roll some tanks in on the unvaccinated. Twabby, can you get them all into a central location, maybe a square of some sort….

 

[g00n]

 

[usiel]

So is your assertion that New Zealand’s strict measures to contain the virus are not a major factor in why their case and death numbers are so low?

As another example, China has also done a much better job than us. Even if you think China’s numbers are off by a factor of 100 and that our numbers are spot-on, China’s deaths per capita are still about 5 times lower than ours (source: COVID-19 deaths per capita by country | Statista ) , despite the fact that they share borders with many other countries (including hotspots like India and Russia) and the fact that their population is more than 3 times bigger than ours. The main difference, of course, is that China has continued with incredibly strict measures to contain the virus while we have not. The reasonable conclusion is that China and their leadership is just doing a better job containing coronavirus than the good old U S of A.

Geography is a convenient scapegoat to help make us feel better about our poor response to the pandemic.

Well of course they are as a communist country firmly in control of their sheep.

 

[g00n]

Florida Man.

Florida, man.

 

[Ridley Simon]

So is your assertion that New Zealand’s strict measures to contain the virus are not a major factor in why their case and death numbers are so low?

As another example, China has also done a much better job than us. Even if you think China’s numbers are off by a factor of 100 and that our numbers are spot-on, China’s deaths per capita are still about 5 times lower than ours (source: COVID-19 deaths per capita by country | Statista ) , despite the fact that they share borders with many other countries (including hotspots like India and Russia) and the fact that their population is more than 3 times bigger than ours. The main difference, of course, is that China has continued with incredibly strict measures to contain the virus while we have not. The reasonable conclusion is that China and their leadership is just doing a better job containing coronavirus than the good old U S of A.

Geography is a convenient scapegoat to help make us feel better about our poor response to the pandemic.

Oh come on. China?

they were claiming 3,000 deaths when we had 100,000. Something is extremely fishy with not only what happened over there to start this whole thing, and with what’s been reported afterwards.

let’s not pretend a communist countries response to something should ever be looked at cleanly. All we hear is controlled. All we see is controlled.

everything they DO is controlled.

so would their population be more controllable than a free countries population? I dunno. You tell me.

I understand some of these other places that performed differently (better) than we did. No one is arguing that.

But stop using China as a reason to do anything. For someone that seems to hate big business and the control measures that are (seemingly to you) in place around that — championing anything China (or Russia, for that matter) is remarkably hypocritical.

 

[txpd]

Florida Man.

Florida, man.

Keeping in mind that not getting vaxxed and not wearing a mask and not takin precautions isnt a risk to just yourself. Freedom comes with responsibility to use it properly and comes with a social compact. You cant kill your neighbors because you want to exercise your freedom.

 

[g00n]

Keeping in mind that not getting vaxxed and not wearing a mask and not takin precautions isnt a risk to just yourself. Freedom comes with responsibility to use it properly and comes with a social compact. You cant kill your neighbors because you want to exercise your freedom.

I think back to the debates about public healthcare from 10-12 years ago and recall a lot of opponents saying that an added healthcare safety net would encourage the poor and irresponsible to make reckless, unhealthy decisions and schedule unnecessary appointments that would all strain the system. They insisted the only way to prevent that would be to monitor and/or ban unhealthy practices (foods, drinks, vices, etc) based on government dictated mandates.

So the concern was M4A= much higher taxes, clogged healthcare system, overworked doctors, & government control over your body....all because some people would make reckless, unhealthy choices.

Fast forward to 2021 and those same people are probably among the unvaxxed who are clogging the system, costing us all money, raising healthcare premiums, overworking doctors, and putting the government in a position where mandates are necessary to stop the reckless, unhealthy behavior.

Ironic.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Amy Coney Barrett strikes surprising killer blow against vaccine mandate defiance — Newsweek


A group of eight students at Indiana University sought an emergency injunction from the Supreme Court against their college's vaccine mandate. In her role supervising the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals, Barrett reviewed the motion and denied it.

Barrett chose not to refer the matter to the full nine-justice court and offered no explanation for her decision in a move that could have wider implications for vaccine mandates across the nation.

Good, curb stomp that crap.

 

[txpd]

I think back to the debates about public healthcare from 10-12 years ago and recall a lot of opponents saying that an added healthcare safety net would encourage the poor and irresponsible to make reckless, unhealthy decisions and schedule unnecessary appointments that would all strain the system. They insisted the only way to prevent that would be to monitor and/or ban unhealthy practices (foods, drinks, vices, etc) based on government dictated mandates.

So the concern was M4A= much higher taxes, clogged healthcare system, overworked doctors, & government control over your body....all because some people would make reckless, unhealthy choices.

Fast forward to 2021 and those same people are probably among the unvaxxed who are clogging the system, costing us all money, raising healthcare premiums, overworking doctors, and putting the government in a position where mandates are necessary to stop the reckless, unhealthy behavior.

Ironic.

The trend has been moving toward a very straightforward, "I want what I want", with those people. They dont want government control of health care unless they do want government control of health care. They dont want government telling private business what it can do unless they do want to tell business can do. They care about their freedoms unless they want the government to ignore your freedoms so you can get what you want.

They tried to elect a majority in congress. Then added a President. Then the President added SCOTUS majority. The result is they still dont get what they want. What they are left with is taking control of the government so they can just tell you what they want. This is why they are ok with January 6

 

[twabby]

Oh come on. China?

they were claiming 3,000 deaths when we had 100,000. Something is extremely fishy with not only what happened over there to start this whole thing, and with what’s been reported afterwards.

let’s not pretend a communist countries response to something should ever be looked at cleanly. All we hear is controlled. All we see is controlled.

everything they DO is controlled.

so would their population be more controllable than a free countries population? I dunno. You tell me.

I understand some of these other places that performed differently (better) than we did. No one is arguing that.

But stop using China as a reason to do anything. For someone that seems to hate big business and the control measures that are (seemingly to you) in place around that — championing anything China (or Russia, for that matter) is remarkably hypocritical.

The "China is covering up staggering amounts of death, no I don't have any proof" talking point usually comes up when cases in the United States peak due to the incompetence and callousness of the American government, and we need reassurance that our hyper-individualistic and capitalist society is doing much better than those dirty communists.

I'd love some proof, any proof that China is covering up their numbers to any significant degree. I'm willing to buy that China is fudging their numbers a bit, just as pretty much every country is fudging their numbers including the United States. But not to the degree that we can say their response to the pandemic has been poor, or anywhere near the disaster that the US's response has been.

Feel free to also speculate about the origins of the virus despite there again being no proof that this was a lab leak or a bioweapon or anything of that nature if it'll distract you from the disaster that is the United States.

 

[g00n]

The trend has been moving toward a very straightforward, "I want what I want", with those people. They dont want government control of health care unless they do want government control of health care. They dont want government telling private business what it can do unless they do want to tell business can do. They care about their freedoms unless they want the government to ignore your freedoms so you can get what you want.

They tried to elect a majority in congress. Then added a President. Then the President added SCOTUS majority. The result is they still dont get what they want. What they are left with is taking control of the government so they can just tell you what they want. This is why they are ok with January 6

All true. I see a lot of "the rules don't apply to me" from people all over the place. It's probably not a new thing but it seems like it's surging again. Remember how shitty the 70s were with litter? I recall trash being everywhere. It was a huge problem and national campaigns were needed just to stop idiots from throwing trash out of their car windows. Starting to feel like that again but without the good music and spirit of 76.

People seem to think "freedom" means "do whatever I want and screw everyone else" despite centuries of social evolution, legal findings, and progressive zeitgeist regarding where one's rights end and another's begin. Simply put: "civilization".

 

[g00n]

The "China is covering up staggering amounts of death, no I don't have any proof" talking point usually comes up when cases in the United States peak due to the incompetence and callousness of the American government, and we need reassurance that our hyper-individualistic and capitalist society is doing much better than those dirty communists.

I'd love some proof, any proof that China is covering up their numbers to any significant degree. I'm willing to buy that China is fudging their numbers a bit, just as pretty much every country is fudging their numbers including the United States. But not to the degree that we can say their response to the pandemic has been poor, or anywhere near the disaster that the US's response has been.

Feel free to also speculate about the origins of the virus despite there again being no proof that this was a lab leak or a bioweapon or anything of that nature if it'll distract you from the disaster that is the United States.

LOL

Yeah the old "show me the proof" fallback. Regarding the black box that is China. Impossible standard and failure to present you with evidence even the IC is seeking is not justification for taking China's side in any argument.

But of course you're totally OK with asserting all sorts of crap about capital, the US government, "both sides", etc without proof. Because narrative.

You forgot to pitch revolution/socialism at the end of your post. But you did manage to repeat your assertion that the US is a disaster so I guess that counts.

 

[twabby]

LOL

Yeah the old "show me the proof" fallback. Regarding the black box that is China. Impossible standard and failure to present you with evidence even the IC is seeking is not justification for taking China's side in any argument.

But of course you're totally OK with asserting all sorts of crap about capital, the US government, "both sides", etc without proof. Because narrative.

You forgot to pitch revolution/socialism at the end of your post. But you did manage to repeat your assertion that the US is a disaster so I guess that counts.

Without proof of extraordinary claims such as a nation covering up the deaths of millions of people or the virus being created in a lab, it's reasonable to be skeptical of these extraordinary claims. To believe these claims without evidence is irrational and Sinophobic in the case of China. The Sinophobia is made clearer by you saying one should never take China's side in an argument, without even considering the merits of the argument.

I am ok with asserting things about capital, the United States government, and the two major political parties that run the government because I base my opinions on facts. I don't always provide sources in my posts, but if you'd like some I'd be happy to oblige.

Which assertions of mine don't you believe? I imagine there are a lot, so bear with me if it takes some time to post my sources!

 

[g00n]

Without proof of extraordinary claims such as a nation covering up the deaths of millions of people or the virus being created in a lab, it's reasonable to be skeptical of these extraordinary claims. To believe these claims without evidence is irrational and Sinophobic in the case of China. The Sinophobia is made clearer by you saying one should never take China's side in an argument, without even considering the merits of the argument.

I am ok with asserting things about capital, the United States government, and the two major political parties that run the government because I base my opinions on facts. I don't always provide sources in my posts, but if you'd like some I'd be happy to oblige.

Which assertions of mine don't you believe? I imagine there are a lot, so bear with me if it takes some time to post my sources!

No, it's just you trying to apply rhetoric standards to international espionage when they don't fit! You default to accusations of phobia without evidence! You put words in peoples' mouths!

Go be a sea lion somewhere else.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The "China is covering up staggering amounts of death, no I don't have any proof" talking point usually comes up when cases in the United States peak due to the incompetence and callousness of the American government, and we need reassurance that our hyper-individualistic and capitalist society is doing much better than those dirty communists.

I'd love some proof, any proof that China is covering up their numbers to any significant degree. I'm willing to buy that China is fudging their numbers a bit, just as pretty much every country is fudging their numbers including the United States. But not to the degree that we can say their response to the pandemic has been poor, or anywhere near the disaster that the US's response has been.

Feel free to also speculate about the origins of the virus despite there again being no proof that this was a lab leak or a bioweapon or anything of that nature if it'll distract you from the disaster that is the United States.

that you give at least some benefit of the doubt to a Communist country like China, and nothing to your own free one, says a lot man…..sad for you. You must hate living among us Capitalists/do right by the community types.

 

[HeyMattyB]

Another day, another story about people who refused to get vaccinated ending up dead.

Florida woman hospitalized for COVID-19 returns home to find husband dead of virus.

 

[twabby]

that you give at least some benefit of the doubt to a Communist country like China, and nothing to your own free one, says a lot man…..sad for you. You must hate living among us Capitalists/do right by the community types.

It's not so much giving them the benefit of the doubt, it's more that I am not going to make wild unsubstantiated claims without at least a shred of evidence. I'm also not saying that the United States is wildly misrepresenting their numbers, though like China they are probably fudging them a bit.

I think freedom is a subjective term. How free are we really? Well, it depends mostly on how much money you have. If you're poor, you don't have much freedom at all! You can't get healthcare, you can't afford a home, you can't afford nutritious food, you can't afford an education, you can't afford transportation, you can't afford to have a child (or two or three). That doesn't sound very free or fulfilling to me. I guess I'm free to die or become homeless!

I don't hate living among those who disagree with me. You're not the enemy and you're not bad, even if you are defending a system that is. As I mentioned earlier capital has pit us against each other so that we aren't looking up at the true cause of our problems. I'm not falling for that trap.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Being poor is not a terminal disease. It can be cured with hard work and perseverance often. My own mother is proof of that.