Coronavirus and the Washington Capitals Part 2

[CapitalsCupReality]

that was awesome….

 

[g00n]

All info that was readily available and a little obviously scripted to target hesitant black people, but if it goes viral and gets the job done then great.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

This will do wonders convincing the unvaccinated to get vaccinated.

 

[pman25]

Can they just mandate the vaccine already? Mandate it for any municipal city workers, military, hospitals, sports leagues, colleges, high schools and that probably gets us through the pandemic instead of these weak mask on/mask off guidelines

 

[Eirikrautha]

This will do wonders convincing the unvaccinated to get vaccinated.

Kind of hard to assert that "the way out of this pandemic is with vaccination" and then tell vaccinated people that, oh yeah, your vaccination isn't good enough. Whatever the medical reality, most people only care as far as it directly impacts their lives. And telling them that getting vaccinated won't make any difference in their life (as far as convenience goes) is not going to persuade the hesitant.

 

[twabby]

They should pay everyone $1,000 to get the vaccine. They should also force employers to give mandatory time off to the get the vaccine, and force employers to give a mandatory few days off of work to recover from any side effects from getting the vaccine.

 

[Eirikrautha]

Can they just mandate the vaccine already? Mandate it for any municipal city workers, military, hospitals, sports leagues, colleges, high schools and that probably gets us through the pandemic instead of these weak mask on/mask off guidelines

Yeah. In fact, there are a lot of medical mandates that could really help out our country. Mandating birth control for people who can't properly take care of their kids, for example. Think of how much child abuse and neglect could be eliminated. Oh, wait, that's vile and unconstitutional (thankfully)!

The cost of living in a free society is that you must persuade others to do the "right" thing, not force them. Otherwise, other people get to decide for you what is and isn't "right." I felt the benefits of the vaccine outweighed any potential negatives, so I got it (and persuaded several of my relatives to do so as well). Are you so insecure about the vaccines' efficacy that you can't make the same case to others?

 

[g00n]

This is one of the most effective vaccines in history. The problem isn't the vaccine it's compliance. Refusal to get the vaccine for political reasons or just antivaxx disinfo is proving to be ironically immune to any argument, incentive, or other form of persuasion.

Don't blame the people doing the right thing for the ignorance and bad faith arguments being made by others.

The thinking behind a possible re-masking is based on a few reasonable considerations. One is the fact that right now you can't tell who's vaccinated and who isn't, and people are being militant about it. That means you can't determine when it's safe to be around others for long periods of time, or in close proximity, etc. When dealing with variants and issues of viral load it becomes important to know whether the people around you are breeding grounds for possible breakthrough cases and variants. Even if 95-99 people out of 100 in a room are vaccinated and don't contract the virus someone is still going to suffer because of the negligence of someone else.

Another thing to consider is the antivaxx people are also anti-mask. They're just not going to comply and polls are showing those who haven't gotten the shot yet probably never will. So the only way to get the public to assist in slowing the spread is to ONCE AGAIN rely on the people already doing their duty for the country/neighbors/family by being responsible with the vaccine. They're the ones most likely to mask up and maybe make some kind of difference, however small, in the spread of the variants. It also once again removes the ability of antivaxx/anti-mask people to just hide their unwillingness to help.

Lastly, schools are about to re-open. There's a potential disaster in the making if we don't address this problem now.

So let's not reduce this to some argument about "faith" in the vaccine or inability to sell it. That's a gross oversimplification and deflects the culpability for this problem from people who have privileged access to a valuable life-saving FREE treatment but refuse it for a handful of stupid, bullshit reasons.

 

[g00n]

CDC will recommend everyone in K-12 schools wear a mask -- regardless of vaccination status -- in new guidance - CNNPolitics

Unvaccinated people should be grateful if this happens, not complaining. It's for their protection more than the vaccinated who can still catch and spread the more transmissible delta variant, though it's less likely and the vaccine mostly prevents serious illness.

Also, kids under 12 can't get vaccinated yet. They are vulnerable.

 

[Eirikrautha]

This is one of the most effective vaccines in history.

Then why are we still having to wear masks if vaccinated?

The problem isn't the vaccine it's compliance. Refusal to get the vaccine for political reasons or just antivaxx disinfo is proving to be ironically immune to any argument, incentive, or other form of persuasion.

None of that affects the vaccines' efficacy. Why do I still need to wear a mask?

The thinking behind a possible re-masking is based on a few reasonable considerations. One is the fact that right now you can't tell who's vaccinated and who isn't, and people are being militant about it. That means you can't determine when it's safe to be around others for long periods of time, or in close proximity, etc. When dealing with variants and issues of viral load it becomes important to know whether the people around you are breeding grounds for possible breakthrough cases and variants. Even if 95-99 people out of 100 in a room are vaccinated and don't contract the virus someone is still going to suffer because of the negligence of someone else.

This makes no sense. If I am vaccinated, and therefore at very low to no risk of contracting Covid, then whoever is around me does not matter (most government agencies are reporting that 98+ percent of new cases are among the unvaccinated. So breakthrough cases are so rare as to be irrelevant to the overall spread). Even if I am the rare breakthrough case, I will have no effect on the vaccinated around me, and the unvaccinated will already get it from the person who just infected me. There is no medical reason for a vaccinated person to mask up, unless you are arguing the vaccine doesn't work well enough. Which I disagree with.

Another thing to consider is the antivaxx people are also anti-mask. They're just not going to comply and polls are showing those who haven't gotten the shot yet probably never will. So the only way to get the public to assist in slowing the spread is to ONCE AGAIN rely on the people already doing their duty for the country/neighbors/family by being responsible with the vaccine. They're the ones most likely to mask up and maybe make some kind of difference, however small, in the spread of the variants. It also once again removes the ability of antivaxx/anti-mask people to just hide their unwillingness to help.

This is directly in opposition to reality. The way to get others to vaccinate is to show them that there is some direct benefit to it. The idea that, if you get vaccinated, you still need to mask up, even when not medically necessary, doesn't change anything medically, socially, or mentally among those who haven't. None of what you just said alters the basic fact that masking is medically not necessary for the vaccinated.

Lastly, schools are about to re-open. There's a potential disaster in the making if we don't address this problem now.

Non-sequitur. School-aged children are neither drivers of infection nor at great risk of illness. Of the 335 children listed as having died of Covid, a recent Johns Hopkins review of the cases determined that none died without serious comorbidities (like leukemia). School has no effect on my wearing of a mask in a restaurant.

So let's not reduce this to some argument about "faith" in the vaccine or inability to sell it. That's a gross oversimplification and deflects the culpability for this problem from people who have privileged access to a valuable life-saving FREE treatment but refuse it for a handful of stupid, bullshit reasons.

Do you want more people to get vaccinated or not? Because that doesn't happen without persuasion.

 

[Eirikrautha]

CDC will recommend everyone in K-12 schools wear a mask -- regardless of vaccination status -- in new guidance - CNNPolitics

Unvaccinated people should be grateful if this happens, not complaining. It's for their protection more than the vaccinated who can still catch and spread the more transmissible delta variant, though it's less likely and the vaccine mostly prevents serious illness.

View attachment 456571

Also, kids under 12 can't get vaccinated yet. They are vulnerable.

May, could, might. So now the CDC is suggesting the vaccine is not worth it (with respect to the Delta variant)? Some amount of risk is necessary for life to "get back to normal." See my previous post about children and Covid. While Delta may be more transmissible, no data suggests it is more dangerous to children (I look forward for to any recent data that suggests otherwise, because I haven't seen any).

 

[g00n]

Then why are we still having to wear masks if vaccinated?


None of that affects the vaccines' efficacy. Why do I still need to wear a mask?


This makes no sense. If I am vaccinated, and therefore at very low to no risk of contracting Covid, then whoever is around me does not matter (most government agencies are reporting that 98+ percent of new cases are among the unvaccinated. So breakthrough cases are so rare as to be irrelevant to the overall spread). Even if I am the rare breakthrough case, I will have no effect on the vaccinated around me, and the unvaccinated will already get it from the person who just infected me. There is no medical reason for a vaccinated person to mask up, unless you are arguing the vaccine doesn't work well enough. Which I disagree with.


This is directly in opposition to reality. The way to get others to vaccinate is to show them that there is some direct benefit to it. The idea that, if you get vaccinated, you still need to mask up, even when not medically necessary, doesn't change anything medically, socially, or mentally among those who haven't. None of what you just said alters the basic fact that masking is medically not necessary for the vaccinated.


Non-sequitur. School-aged children are neither drivers of infection nor at great risk of illness. Of the 335 children listed as having died of Covid, a recent Johns Hopkins review of the cases determined that none died without serious comorbidities (like leukemia). School has no effect on my wearing of a mask in a restaurant.


Do you want more people to get vaccinated or not? Because that doesn't happen without persuasion.

Did you read the link or my post? There are several reasons to wear a mask in a crowded indoor situation, and several reasons it may fall upon the already responsible to pick up the slack for millions of idiots. The vaccinated can become the new "asymptomatic carrier" cases, possibly with full viral loads, so the unvaccinated person in the room you mention may not be the one spreading the virus, it could be you. And again the longer you're in a closed space the higher the local viral load, especially if ventilation isn't handling it.

What twisted "reality" exists that the only issue here is the "convenience" of masking? Why do you think what you do in a restaurant has no bearing on something that happens somewhere else later? That's how pandemics work.

Regarding children


GOP Senator Dismisses Deaths of 400 Children From COVID After Assuming They All Had 'Underlying Conditions'

I assume your data is based on this guy's comments. In response:

I see no JH study stating what you claim.

 

[g00n]

May, could, might. So now the CDC is suggesting the vaccine is not worth it (with respect to the Delta variant)? Some amount of risk is necessary for life to "get back to normal." See my previous post about children and Covid. While Delta may be more transmissible, no data suggests it is more dangerous to children (I look forward for to any recent data that suggests otherwise, because I haven't seen any).

Didn't read the article, eh? Or the screencap I posted?

Ok then.

 

[g00n]

Also, the CDC recommendations in May came about with little notice and were clearly made for political reasons.

They were under pressure from governors and other politicians and businesses to lift the guidelines so states wouldn't have to deal with the logistically sticky issue of "vaccine passports" and so forth. People were already going without masks and there was confusion about how to proceed. They made the decision to try and incentivize people who were already DEAD SET against vaccination. Dumb move. I disagreed with the strategy then, saying it would result in more infections because we hadn't hit the necessary "herd immunity" levels yet, and it would be hard to get people to re-mask.

Well guess what.

 

[Eirikrautha]

I see no JH study stating what you claim.

An op-ed by the study's author (who wrote an op-ed in the Washington Post in March advocating for child vaccination, before the data made him change his mind).

Assertions by public agencies full of "might" and "could" are neither authoritative nor conclusive. [EDIT: Removed unnecessary incendiary statement]. You have gazed too long into the abyss.

 

[Eirikrautha]

Also, the CDC recommendations in May came about with little notice and were clearly made for political reasons.

Or maybe those weren't political, but these are. You have no evidence either way. Once you admit the CDC is making decisions based on political considerations, all of their pronouncements are suspect. You seem to think the ones you agree with aren't political, but the ones you don't agree with are. That's unreasonable (like the anti-vaxxers) thinking if I ever saw it. Now that you admit the CDC has always been political, maybe you can start thinking about this logically...

 

[g00n]

An op-ed by the study's author (who wrote an op-ed in the Washington Post in March advocating for child vaccination, before the data made him change his mind).

Assertions by public agencies full of "might" and "could" are neither authoritative nor conclusive. You are everything you claim the anti-vaxxers are (irrational, polemical, and unreasonable). You have gazed too long into the abyss.

Ah, the current talking point of "the other guys are really antivaxxers" except morphed into "you're just as bad".

Sure, bud. 650K deaths are not on my hands. You know exactly what that's about, latest talking points aside.

Your "proof" is not actual proof. It's a limited study of INSURANCE DATA from the first few months of the pandemic in 2020, of just 48K cases, by a partisan author (frequently cited by Fox News) who happens to be a GI doctor, not a research scientist or epidemiologist. He has an axe to grind with the CDC and the entire medical industry. I would take anything he says about this with a shaker of salt. One such response to him that's part of that salt:

I also don't see the actual study he's citing anywhere. The link he provides on twitter goes to something that says nothing about the data he's claiming.

 

[g00n]

Or maybe those weren't political, but these are. You have no evidence either way. Once you admit the CDC is making decisions based on political considerations, all of their pronouncements are suspect. You seem to think the ones you agree with aren't political, but the ones you don't agree with are. That's unreasonable (like the anti-vaxxers) thinking if I ever saw it. Now that you admit the CDC has always been political, maybe you can start thinking about this logically...

LOL what twisted "logic". Just asking questions? What can we REALLY know (therefore I'm going to do what I want)?

The CDC is not my responsibility but I've seen enough of their information and statements to know they're walking a tightrope, and under the previous administration they were hamstrung or manipulated. This has been stated conclusively by members already...they published guidelines that had been altered by political actors, including the school recommendations last Fall.

When administrations changed they talked about being able to do their jobs again. This past spring there were certain governors and other politicians working against the vaccination push, and pushing the exact same narrative you're pushing re: "if the vaccine is so good then why do we still need masks". To avoid having to deal with that, and to avoid the "vaccine passport" problem facing governments (and the businesses that pressure THEM), they stupidly decided to cave to those same forces that had previously manipulated them.

So it's just asinine to say that because they've been politically manipulated in known ways by ONE side that BOTH sides are somehow doing it. What the f*** is there to gain for the other side here??? Talk about failure of "logic". lol Explain that.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Can they just mandate the vaccine already? Mandate it for any municipal city workers, military, hospitals, sports leagues, colleges, high schools and that probably gets us through the pandemic instead of these weak mask on/mask off guidelines

I work for a local government agency and the answer is, no. The COVID vaccine is being administered under an emergency use authorization from the FDA. So it’s experimental. As long as this is the case it cant be mandated. Some organizations are mandating it but, according to my organizations legal department, they can be sued for mandating it.

For comparison, flu vaccines are approved by the FDA for, lack of a better descriptive term, normal everyday use so organizations and businesses can mandate people get it. In my old job I did work for MedStar as a contractor and I was required to get a flu shot every year in order to work in their hospitals.

 

[g00n]

I work for a local government agency and the answer is, no. The COVID vaccine is being administered under an emergency use authorization from the FDA. So it’s experimental. As long as this is the case it cant be mandated.

For comparison, flu vaccines are approved by the FDA for, lack of a better descriptive term, normal everyday use so organizations and businesses can mandate people get it. In my old job I did work for MedStar as a contractor and I was required to get a flu shot every year in order to work in their hospitals.

Wrong. It depends on the state. The "not FDA approved" shit is a media talking point only. Has nothing to do with the law. However once the full approval is granted (a FORMALITY) then mandates are likely to be seen as much more attractive in areas where there may be legal challenges.

A case in Houston was thrown out of court last month when a healthcare worker challenged mandated vaccination.

Vaccine mandates more likely once FDA grants full approvals, health experts say



COVID-19 Vaccine Communication Toolkit for Essential Workers

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

More half assed hedging.

 

[g00n]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/28/her...t-spots-under-the-cdcs-new-mask-guidance.html

No counties in MD. A mixture in VA.

 

[kicksavedave]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/28/her...t-spots-under-the-cdcs-new-mask-guidance.html

No counties in MD. A mixture in VA.

Missouri, Arkansas, Louisiana and Florida almost 100% red. Mississippi and Alabama doing their best to get there...

 

[usiel]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/28/her...t-spots-under-the-cdcs-new-mask-guidance.html

No counties in MD. A mixture in VA.

Lot or rural counties red. Stafford the closest to NOVA. VA beach area looks mess. I tell everyone we live in a time of rural tyranny.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Lot or rural counties red. Stafford the closest to NOVA. VA beach area looks mess. I tell everyone we live in a time of rural tyranny.

The rural people have been pissed on by the enlightened elites for a long time. Mocked and insulted for as long as I can remember. Can’t really blame them for ignoring the elites now, the one time the elites pretend to give a shit about them. Mocking and insulting them won’t get them to come around on getting vaccinated.